@GeorgeB For things at the limit of what I can play (recently 1st trumpet in the orchestra version of Rimsky-Korsakovs Scheherezade), my standard take is to completely memorize the difficult licks. Once I have freed up my eyes, they do not slow my fingers or tongue down any more! 
This was recorded at Chappell Studios in London in 1975. https://www.discogs.com/de/Anita-Kerr-Hallelujah-Brass/release/7530512
It was part of a series Hallelujah Brass, Woodwinds, Guitar and Voices. They were recorded for a Nashville company Word Records. I found no link between Herb Alpert and Word or Chappell. He had his own A&M label. Anita Kerr was signed by Warner and Word so I doubt that they worked together as there are no credits on any of the albums. Anita worked with Karl Garvin (Nashville) on trumpet on a 1971 production.
@Dr-GO And as I mentioned elsewhere, pigeons also have other things that stick...
As far as Barlimans experience in that playing venue, on stage we get lucky sometimes, sometimes we lose - not being able to hear anything... That can be from a "dead" sounding environment (playing outdoors or in a conference room), or a very live environment with 6 seconds of reverb or more.
The trick is to not play more loudly when we are unsure/insecure...
Everybody teaches themselves to play! A teacher can motivate and focus on things good for the player, but at the end of the day, it is the student that has to untangle what they have been told, sort it and apply it.
To become an expert, you need exceptional talent first - talent to keep your eye on the ball, talent to hear differences, talent to understand the differences and above all talent to know what we don't know.
I know that 2000-10000 purposeful repetitions gives us a "professional" level of repeatability for a specific task. I am not sure that we can assign hours however.
@stumac Phase is not what causes the frequency that we "hear". I find more evidence that the size and taper of the trumpet bell "amplify" frequencies starting in the second octave. An 1300 Hz horn is around 4.8" in diameter at the mouth according to horn theory... This would damp the fundamental which is below cutoff severely.
Did any of you ever notice that a trumpet is twice longer than for instance a soprano saxophone that plays at the same pitch? If we analyse the spectra of the trumpet, we see the fundamental but primarily “hear” the first overtone. With the saxophone or flute, we “hear” primarily the fundamental.
https://www.bacmusicshop.com/collection/?sort=featured
In the shop there are some horns with prices.
@Trumpetsplus said in Brass instruments are not pneumatic circuits:
@Dirk020 If one model actually had more resistance it just means that it was harder to get it into resonance. I am not trying to explain design principles. I am only hoping to point out information.
Or we simply have a harder time hearing ourselves and interpret that as a harder blow. Take that wonderful trumpet outdoors to an area with no buildings and playtest. It will normally be a lot more difficult even although the instrument and mouthpiece are exactly the same.
@Dr-GO said in Who did it better??:
@Kehaulani said in Who did it better??:
Yeah, but Chicago doesn't have the brunette.
BTW, mellow? Diane Kral is mellow.
I'll take Diane Kral over the brunette any day (or night).
No doubt in my mind that Ksenia is the real thing. I checked out her solo videos too. I really enjoyed every video with her. She, like everyone else in the band just seems to have such a great time. I think that I would have a nicer time with her than Ms. Krall.
For me, Diana Krall is associated with demo music at audio shows. Nice safe productions that sell to the easy listening crowd too.
Very, very polished. Technically and musically more than what I was used to hearing from the original band. BUT and this is a VERY big but: the original band created the venue, charts, market. Let us see how much original new material will be composed...
I don't think that Lee Loughnane could have played these trumpet parts. I have a slight preference for Peter Ceteras voice and Terry Kaths guitar.
I was not aware of this band - thanks for the link!
In my world there is no "best" or even "beginners" mouthpiece. The Bach 7C is popular because it is not too big, not too little, it has a slightly sharper inner rim which in my opinion works well with chops that simply don't get enough practice. The critical part for beginners is NOT buying a bigger or smaller mouthpiece, rather getting them lessons with someone who cares enough to lead them to superior body and breath use. The faster that they let their playing ride on that flow of air, the faster they will have little dependency on mouthpiece to fill the job (sound great, play in tune, blend in school band).
Anything smaller than a 7C or bigger than a 3C, I consider to be a specialty mouthpiece and one should know themselves why they chose them. I only played for a year on a 7C. Then it was clear that I was on track for classical playing. I was playing cornet at the time and switched to a 1C with only a week or two of acclimation. That is only proof that my trumpet teacher did his job (and that I practiced a little more than required)!
New Years Eve: Spectacular baroque D- Major (actually in historic pitch so it is glorious Db major)
New Years (and the rest of January): New Years concerts with operetta works from Strauss father and Son, Lehár, Bizet, Liszt, Kálmán, Stoltz plus musicals.
@ButchA said in Not really a "mouthpiece safari" but the need for a "saving grace" type of mouthpiece...:
In review:
Bach 10¾CW - arguably the easiest MP to play both low and high without any straining.
Bach 3C - a fantastic MP with a full sound, but after the high A, I start straining.
Curry 3M. - a really amazing, custom, MP that is (according to Mark Curry) in between a 3C and a 3D. I went right up to the high C with minimal straining.
In my world, no direct mouthpiece comparison has any meaning at all. We need to acclimate and that takes time. I have played mouthpieces (like the 14A4A) that were 15 minutes of bliss then caved because my lips bottomed out. I certainly could have solved that problem, but at what cost? Only a couple of months can tell!
We are the sum of what we repeatedly do. Regular and intelligent practice helps us create reliable playing targets. Mouthpiece searches - especially for those without well trained embouchures are a crap shoot!
I recommend picking ONE MOUTHPIECE and sticking with it for a couple of months. At that time, if you have been taking notes, you should be able to come up with the next step (stick with the mouthpiece or change).
As far as your comparison, it sounds like it was done in a small room. When trying to fill up larger playing venues, small mouthpieces can be a lot of work.
Please do not confuse what works for strong players with recommendations for weaker players.
@Kehaulani said in Not really a "mouthpiece safari" but the need for a "saving grace" type of mouthpiece...:
rowuk tell me if I'm off track. I would just add these observations.
Shallower cups (not diameters), can emphasise the upper partials and de-emphasise the lower ones, aiding the sound to being more easily heard if playing lead or in an electric combo. This is an acoustic phenomenon, not a range building one.
Actually the cup is an acoustic filter between the lips and the resonance of the instrument. A deep cup filters the upper harmonics creating a darker sound. That being said, a shallow cup has more "compression" creating a "stiffer" cushion against our lips. This in fact could aid properly trained chops in the upper register. The idea is equilibrium - our blow and the air cushion of the cup create a fluid instance where the lips can freely open and close. IF our embouchure is not developed enough, we apply armstrong and all bets are off about attaining equilibrium. You see, when our blow is stronger than the backpressure of the cup air cushion, our lips protrude more deeply in the cup, changing the geometry of the embouchure and possibly even bottoming out. With slighly deeper "standard" mouthpieces, this danger hardly exists.
Deep cups, for many, are just harder to sustain playing high notes over a long period of time, and generally enhance the roundness or depth of the tone, pushing out the lower partials at the trade-off of the upper ones.
Only when we are leveraging our face muscles instead of letting the horn do the work!
And some mouthpieces just enhance a certain sound preference.
This is a HUGE issue. As I have often posted, how we hear ourselves determines what we believe that the trumpet is doing. Play in a nice room - get the warm fuzzies, then take that same trumpet/mouthpiece and attitude and play outdoors in an open space - endurance goes down, the amount of work seems to go up - although all that has changed is how we hear ourselves! I will maintain that most players have a VERY WARPED concept of what they like and what is good for them. That underdeveloped "opinion" limits their playing in serious ways!.
This doesn't mean that any of these factors can't be "overcome", in and of themselves. To use an analogy though, you can get from New Hampshire to California in a BMW or a Volkswagen Beetle. It just depends on how you want to travel.
***I am not sure that nature needs to be overcome. The rules of engagement are very clear - get a daily routine for maintenance (not improvement) and stick to it. This is like treating diabetes. If we regard the ceremony of injecting insulin as "overcoming" the symptoms of diabetes - we have already lost the battle. Our bodies are screaming for a different type of eating ceremony and we just apply a bandaid. In May this year, my own diabetes got worse. I got a new diabetologist and we decided on a new strategy. Inside of a month, I was able to reduce the quantity of insulin by 50%. I changed the eating ceremony - was never hungry and have been losing about 1 to 2 pounds per month. I currently have the best medium term results since 2011.
It is no different with the trumpet. There are so many "microfactors" that we need to commit to "second nature". This is why I am allergic to mouthpiece discussions and embouchure changes - not because they have no value, rather because our bodies are telling us what we need to know and we are not listening or able to hear - so we come up with "hairbrained" schemes that simply satisfy our urge to "do something" but NEVER give us the results (if we are taking notes).
The single greatest improvement for the casual player is the daily routine. Like with diabetes -> when the input is right, the output is far less invasive.***
This is a thread where it is very easy to be "unkind"...
The fact that you "absolutely CANNOT play 1st chair, screaming high, Maynard Ferguson, Bill Chase, style of music" puts you in the same boat with just about everyone else here. Even if there were a mouthpiece that "aided" the high register, there are many compelling reasons not to share that "secret". Maybe so much - your Bach 3C and Curry 3M CAN cut it...
Endurance is not a function of a 3C or Curry equivalent. It is the result of us reducing the amount of tension necessary to play. That is accomplished with superior breathing and body use techniques as well as a LOT of very soft playing to train lower embouchure tension.
The width of the mouthpiece is not indicative of a specific range or endurance and there is most certainly a "cost of business" when we start switching around.
The Bach 3C is as close to standard magic as it gets. It has a slightly sharp inner rim to get the sound started more easily. It is average in size in relation to rim, cup and backbore. For commercial type playing, it is certainly not a bad choice. If you are having a rough time with it, I would not expect another mouthpiece to perform "better". I would focus more on the basics of sound production and get those habits in line with your dental situation. I am facing a dental situation myself and look forward to practicing what I have preached - even to students with braces.
Nice post - but why is it in the Home/Instruments/Discussion/Bb & C Trumpets part of the forum?
I play a german Bb tenor horn and BBb Tuba in addition to Bb & C trumpets - only because it is fun!
