@Dr-GO Yes, I do browse the site from time to time. I do happen to be busy with many things (performances and preparing for a master class) that keep me away from casual computing.

As far as my posting at TrumpetMaster, that was an outlet for many concepts that I use when teaching and in my „industry“ job.

As far as grudges go, I am sorry that hindsight has not changed some peoples view of the world. Those that were banned had a „long series“ of behavior that was not „community“. In general, the admins posted in a protected area about those people and we were able to get other opinions before taking any action. Who actually banned who was not always clear as there was no flag visible to admins.

Wilmer died, may he rest in piece. All of the real professionals at TrumpetMaster had a certain degree of frustration with certain members who seemed to think that the supposed anonimity of the web gave them license to spew stupidity. I am convinced that in a real 1 on 1 lesson, the tone would have been completely different - far more respectful. I also often considered leaving TrumpetMaster but in the end, the real problem children (those only on transmit (TX) but not receive (RX)) were so few and the quantity of „respectful“ members gave me joy.

The essence of what I posted was just to take a step back, view the issue in its entirety and address the root cause instead of offering a patch for a symptom. This strategy works everywhere except in marriage (that being said, I have been with the same wife - my first - since 1978).

I still am not ready to make a commitment like I made to myself at TrumpetMaster. I am disappointed in the owner of TrumpetMaster for no warning or communication about closure. I certainly hope that the problem was not due to death or health issues.

Keep practicing!

Robin

It is important to recognize context when talking about "quality". A students instrument can have a very high quality, but the focus is on different things!
A beginner handles their instrument more by "chance" than by "experience". This means that a student instrument must be very durable to insure good mechanical properties even when not regularly maintained. The next mark of a high quality student instrument is how easily it "speaks". It needs to resonate easily with good tone. The player has to hear themselves easily. The valves will not have as tight of a tolerance to prevent them from hanging when not regularly brushing teeth before playing!

I will leave out "intermediate" instruments as I personally really see no musical sense to them. We can move from a Yamaha 2xxx or 3xxx directly to the 8xxx series for instance.

Professional instruments are not "soldered or designed better" than the student instruments. The improvements are in the time it takes to manipulate the materials for a playing response more closely connected to the players intentions. Instead of "durability", materials are used that allow a greater choice of playing colors, perhaps more ease of playing extremely soft and loud. The ability for "articulation" to be heard. A more controllable transition from clear to brilliant in a crescendo. In many cases, professional instruments have considerably more manual labor in their construction and that costs money.

I certainly agree that buying a beginner a pro horn normally does no one a favor. we start on a bicycle with training wheels, not carbon fiber rims. As our use case matures, we have opportunities to offer more colorful playing. A professional instrument can help us tap those talents by giving our ears/brain less gaps to fill in. When our vocabulary and quality of musical speech warrant it, the pro horn lets us shine through more.

I remember the Buzz/Phooey discussion at TrumpetMaster. It went nowhere fast.

The lips open and close like a valve at a rate related to the length of the trumpet. Each fingering has multiple notes based on the wavelength being played. The pedal note is one wavelength in the instrument. Low C is 2 wavelengths, G is 3 wavelengths, third space C is 4 wavelengths. This continues until our lips are no longer able to open and close - due to pressure, tension or lack of being supple.

I consider the buzz or alternate start of lip vibration to be an insignificant semantic argument with no redeeming value. We are talking about the same thing: ignition of the lips, initialization of the vibrating mode. Regardless if one calls it Phooey or a buzz, fact is, we blow air through the lips with a certain amount of lip tension and they resonate. This blow can be a relaxed exhale to a forceful expulsion of air. Articulation comes later when we modify the start to "speak". To speak a "phoo or foo" we would need our lower teeth on the upper lip prior to ignition. That certainly does not line up with most embouchures - especially considering that most have an overbite (upper teeth in front of lower teeth). Perhaps for players with an underbite (upper teeth behind the lower teeth) phoo would be what at least they "think" that they are doing. Considering that ignition needs freely vibrating lips, beyond the exhale, it really does not matter.

Some players have trouble with a free buzz. That is in most cases insignificant as we always play trumpet through a mouthpiece. Some players have trouble with a buzz through a mouthpiece. This is also in many cases insignificant as we rely on the resonances of the horn to modulate and stabilize pitch. Some like buzzing free, on the mouthpiece or with some resonance enhancing scheme (leadpipe or P.E.T.E). Good for them. It never helped my playing and I never taught it. I certainly would not criticize another teacher with good experience in buzzing however-as long as the player is getting a well balanced routine every day.

I found the arguments at TrumpetMaster regarding this to be little more than annoying as the real issues of getting the sound started are masked in senseless arguing.

If we can't get our semantics to line up, then beating a dead horse is not productive. Let us just talk about ignition instead.

As far as Yamahas claim to deeper cups being more mellow, science backs this up. The more cup volume, the more it acts like a low pass acoustical filter - reducing upper harmonics (compared to a cup with less volume). Less harmonics is a "darker/more mellow" sound.

The throat/backbore indeed also has great effect on sound and intonation as well as efficiency. That has nothing to do with Yamahas claims at the mentioned website.

We should never forget that the target audience determines the semantics. The casual reader really could care less and at least gets some valid pre-chewed recommendations. As they advance in perception and capability, they go elsewhere for mor detailed info.

@Kehaulani said in RIP Trumpet "Master":

If I'm not mistaking, the Circle of Breath is not rowuk's but is just another way of describing time honored techniques. No disrespect to rowuk, who's posts I always enjoyed and am grateful for lot of good advice, but what is unique about it to give it a distinct name and attribute the techniques to any one man. What did I miss?

I will assume that this statement was made because I only posted Circle of Breath at the now dead Trumpetmaster.

This is true. The concepts in the „Circle of Breath“ are age old, tried and true. They are a complete routine that I have been using since the 1970s. I do not know of anyone else that coined the phrase „Circle of Breath“ in this context so I will take credit for the name. Aligning the body first(Yoga, Feldenkrais, Alexander Technique), deep relaxed breath, playing longtones and slurs without an attack (Irons and others) are certainly not unique. I was always surprised that there are many (even accomplished) players that were never introduced to these basic concepts. This combination has been effective with every player that I have worked with. Just to outline the process:

1. Prepared body - straight/aligned to allow for a deep relaxed breath
2. exhale into long tones. We teach our lips to ignite on a wisp of air. The tongue tip is later used only to shape the articulation - not enable ignition of the lips
3. exhale into lipslurs

The circle is divided into two sections. At the bottom (6 o‘clock) we start our inhale. At 12 o‘clock we switch to exhale with all of the smoothness that a circle has. We exhale to 6 o‘clock and then the smooth transition to inhale starts. The time to inhale is not fixed.

We breathe through the nose as long as there is time enough. The air is moistened and adjusted in temperature.
If we do NOT have time, we breathe through the mouth.

Both methods of inhale must be practiced as well as their transition to exhale and back.

I use the Irons lip flexibilities book for the lipslur part.

Please feel free to move this post anywhere that would better serve the community.

Here is a method of creating a cheap but effective practice mute. I saw this mute at the international Natural Trumpet Workshop near Basel 2 weeks ago, so I am just sharing/documenting the idea.

In Germany, we have 2 "single portion" types of Coke bottles. .33 liters or for the more thirsty, .5 liters.

1. The first step is to get rid of the Coke (in my case Coke Zero)! Then wash out the bottle and let dry.
   
2. Now cut the top off as in the picture. Leave a little of the straight sides to provide a flat gluing surface:
   
3. Cut the bottom off as shown and discard the middle part:
   
4. Test the top and bottom parts for fit:
   
5. Glue both parts together with your favorite glue and use tape to secure during the drying process(make sure that the glue is suitable for PET):
   
6. Cut off the rim on the neck:
   
   
7. For the gasket between the mute and bell I used a bicycle grip
   
   
8. Drill a hole in the top a bit smaller than a drinking straw
   
9. for the 0.33 liter mute( middle) cut a straw to 3cm and glue it into the hole. For the 0.5 liter mute (right), a 2cm length works well
   

Longer straw lengths do not reduce volume as much but are more free blowing. Too short lengths reduce volume but are very stuffy/fuzzy

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus. Players buy custom horns because they CAN, not because they musically "have to".

There is a concept that the horn finds the player that I think is very true - but how much opportunity do we get to play those custom horns long enough before we pay? Being honest - essentially never. Has anyone checked out how many used custom horns are available - more than one would expect considering how special they are supposed to be.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player. Well, the truth is that all of those custom builders are giving you what they believe. You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing. Who has the ability to finesse the strengths of a player in the match of instrument. I can only think of one manufacturer that does and it only works like that on the second, third or fourth instrument.

So, my take is:

1. start safe with a "standard" Bach, Schilke, Yamaha if you are really serious. Then as time goes on and dues are paid, play everything that you can get your hands on. Visit players that have "interesting horns" and take your time.
2. if you get a second horn, play it exclusively for a while to get intimate with it
3. NEVER EVER believe that hardware will solve a software problem.

@barliman2001 said in Did something change?:

@ROWUK I agree with you that TB has not yet reached the kind of wealth of information that TM had... but then, many old TM members did not switch to TB when TM suddenly went dead.

I do not think that the problem is number of members. What bothers me is who posts why. I do not share the sense of humor of others and having an opinion just because we can is not always a good reason to torpedo threads. I am convinced that many think that they are funny and do not even realize the damage that they do. Sometimes just keeping a thread serious would be a great course of action. The NY Phil controversy is a good example. What torpedoed it had nothing to do with the charge or the aftermath. The second thread was simply embarassing.

Here are a couple of my wood projects:
Cherry

Oak

Baltic Birch Plywood (the horns are fibreglass)

@mike-ansberry This is a HUGE topic. I built my own, horn loudspeakers and low powered tube amplification.

In my world there is no "best" or even "beginners" mouthpiece. The Bach 7C is popular because it is not too big, not too little, it has a slightly sharper inner rim which in my opinion works well with chops that simply don't get enough practice. The critical part for beginners is NOT buying a bigger or smaller mouthpiece, rather getting them lessons with someone who cares enough to lead them to superior body and breath use. The faster that they let their playing ride on that flow of air, the faster they will have little dependency on mouthpiece to fill the job (sound great, play in tune, blend in school band).

Anything smaller than a 7C or bigger than a 3C, I consider to be a specialty mouthpiece and one should know themselves why they chose them. I only played for a year on a 7C. Then it was clear that I was on track for classical playing. I was playing cornet at the time and switched to a 1C with only a week or two of acclimation. That is only proof that my trumpet teacher did his job (and that I practiced a little more than required)!

Congratulations!
I personally would not sell off the tried and true so soon. Wait 6 months and THEN you can be sure that the acclimation process is complete. I am not saying that there is something wrong with your choice. I am saying that we are creatures of habit and breaking old habits is a process that does not ALWAYS work.
That being said, my last mouthpiece switch was cold turkey in 1996 and I never looked back. I kept the old mouthpieces for a long time but never tried them out as the new mouthpiece stayed feeling good.

Enjoy!

@henrylr Trombone slide grease is designed for fast action. Trumpet slide grease is not as fast, lasts a lot longer and also helps the slides be more "airtight".
Tuning slide grease would be the same for both instruments.

@walter-sk Interesting, a post 2021 and no response after that. I often wonder how serious the questions are - and how serious some of the answers are. Are we scaring folks off, or are they just posting the usual trumpet thing of not having enough range (that I interpret as no process for building)?

In any case, since I have my upper/lower dentures and implants now, I revisit the tension vs blow thing every single day.

That being said, mouthpiece size (within reason) makes no difference. The Baroque mouthpieces with 19-21 mm inner rims have the same high notes as my modern 10 1/2C on the pick. My go to orchestra mouthpieces are around 1C size - with the same high notes.

I firmly believe that we use mouthpieces to change tone - not range. With the right tone for the genre, playing in the upper register fits better and THAT makes it easier.

@orly61 Going back though the last 55 years of playing and teaching, I have only had one horn that had issues - and that was me (grip of death).
The lesson that I learned very early is that we clean the valves, wait until they are bone dry and THEN oil them. Oil does not stick to moisture, metal that has an oil film does not let moisture cause issues.
Break in is actually "wear in". With a properly cleaned and oiled trumpet, 4 weeks should be enough unless you have a Schilke (tighter tolerances - more break in time).
Make a video while playing to see if you are pushing the valves down from the side instead of the top.

Breaking in the valves can take a while. The tighter the tolerances, the longer it takes.

I also use T2 oil which is on the very thin side - which is good for tight valves.

In many cases, the player does not push the valves down straight when playing. When valves are not broken in, that can cause them to bind. The solution is to practice more, fast and slow which will cause minor wear (breaking in) according to the geometry of your hand.

A second possibility is the grip of death from the left hand. I remember in the Renold Schilke days his new horns needing considerable break in and easing up the intensity of the left hand grip went a long way in improving the situation.

It is important that you inform your dealer and wait for instructions. I would be VERY hesitant to have any hack try to polish something out. The correct procedure is called lapping.

We are creatures of habit and I firmly believe that THIS is the #1 reason for mouthpiece safaris not working.
I believe that we need MONTHS to determine if a mouthpiece is good for us. The process is called acclimation. We must practice, adapt and perform to cover our use cases.

My personal practice is, and has always been to cold turkey switch and stick with the "new" for at least 2 months - no switching back to the original. After that two - three months, I retry the original and note the differences. My last switch was in 1996.

What would be the purpose? To rename Trumpetboards? To get any traffic that might still be looking for TrumpetMaster?

I wrote e'mails to admins and hosters, researched the blocking of the site but got no answers. I know of a couple of legal actions that fizzled out but nothing that would have locked the site down.

I think that you have done an admirable job giving the orphaned a home. Admins are clear about their actions and are willing to "discuss" decisions. I do have the impression that the troublemakers did not migrate.

I see no use for the domain if we can not restore content.

Playing any given tone is the process of our air pressure being able to "blow apart" the lips. If we can't play low notes, the usual situation is that the lips are pressed too tightly together. We can not just intellectually tell our facial muscles to "relax". Playing the trumpet is fine motor activity that needs many low impact repetitions to create muscle memory.

In my "circle of breath" (which is only a collection of things from others with my individual visualisation), I mention exhaling into the note. That is what is needed here. Tonguing the note adds a burst of air pressure to kick start the tone and that is NOT A GOOD THING at this stage. We should only use the tongue to "shape" the beginning of a tone (articulate). We can only start to shape when we have "tone in the first place".

Exhale into the long tones.

In learning to play the trumpet, we can learn from AI techniques - just not as quickly.
What does AI do? It takes the established base of facts (entered by whoever is "responsible" - the facts can be limited in scope or very broad depending on who is feeding the database)and calculates on the base of documented success with those facts, what steps offer fastest results.
This is what also happens with a good student teacher relationship - with perhaps not as broad of an experience base. The teachers "large" experience base is applied to the student.

The problem is the relationship between the student and AI or student and teacher. At the end of the day, the student must understand and be motivated by the "facts" presented - regardless of where they are from.

In my world, no one ever "taught" talent, or even patience. The patient and talented person that had the good luck of having a qualified, patient and motivating tutor had higher odds. I do not believe that the odds change when the tutor is AI. Only access to the qualified part is possibly enabled. Perhaps the technical aspects could be sorted more quickly with AI. That could possibly lead to more motivation, but equally possible could replace "musical" with "technically spectacular". We see this happening in many areas of art like latin or standard dancing for instance. Live bands do not play during the competition - everything is choreographed to a CD recording.

@trumpetb Artificial has "nothing" to do with the human state. What we learn is real. Please do not refer to AI as a "human" experience or trait.
The problem with AI is that there is no judgement. We have seen for instance, what happens to automated trading on the stock exchange floors. We also see that our credit ratings are based on the streets that we live on (not always our own credit worthiness).
What we also see is the strong tendency to believe a machine before a person. Manufacturing has been revolutionised by putting people out of work. There is more coming. Unfortunately, societies largest problem all over the world is having enough work for the populace.

Thomas Sowell has a very applicable quote:
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong."

It should be very clear to you that machines will never have to pay any price.

Those pushing AI forward do not have any goals of making life better for everyone - the goal is to make life better for those that can afford to play the game. We may not be able to stop it, but we certainly must vote for politicians that have OUR well being at heart instead to the populist scum from both sides of the aisle. How easily manipulated we and those ruling can be was very recently demonstrated for the whole world to see. An entire congress held hostage for several days by 19 populists. No common denominator. No effort for compromise. 19 terrorists held 400 congressmen hostage until their agenda got pushed through. With AI, it can be the same issue as AI can calculate how little is necessary to take future elections hostage. Our laws and control instances are not even close to ready.

Just imagine the AI run across twitter tweets affecting our ability to get a Tesla and what our individual configuration would be limited to. Add Alexa, Siri to the mix. Maybe we will not even be employable based on what was heard online. There is plenty to be concerned about!