@Dr-GO Yes, I do browse the site from time to time. I do happen to be busy with many things (performances and preparing for a master class) that keep me away from casual computing.

As far as my posting at TrumpetMaster, that was an outlet for many concepts that I use when teaching and in my „industry“ job.

As far as grudges go, I am sorry that hindsight has not changed some peoples view of the world. Those that were banned had a „long series“ of behavior that was not „community“. In general, the admins posted in a protected area about those people and we were able to get other opinions before taking any action. Who actually banned who was not always clear as there was no flag visible to admins.

Wilmer died, may he rest in piece. All of the real professionals at TrumpetMaster had a certain degree of frustration with certain members who seemed to think that the supposed anonimity of the web gave them license to spew stupidity. I am convinced that in a real 1 on 1 lesson, the tone would have been completely different - far more respectful. I also often considered leaving TrumpetMaster but in the end, the real problem children (those only on transmit (TX) but not receive (RX)) were so few and the quantity of „respectful“ members gave me joy.

The essence of what I posted was just to take a step back, view the issue in its entirety and address the root cause instead of offering a patch for a symptom. This strategy works everywhere except in marriage (that being said, I have been with the same wife - my first - since 1978).

I still am not ready to make a commitment like I made to myself at TrumpetMaster. I am disappointed in the owner of TrumpetMaster for no warning or communication about closure. I certainly hope that the problem was not due to death or health issues.

Keep practicing!

Robin

I remember the Buzz/Phooey discussion at TrumpetMaster. It went nowhere fast.

The lips open and close like a valve at a rate related to the length of the trumpet. Each fingering has multiple notes based on the wavelength being played. The pedal note is one wavelength in the instrument. Low C is 2 wavelengths, G is 3 wavelengths, third space C is 4 wavelengths. This continues until our lips are no longer able to open and close - due to pressure, tension or lack of being supple.

I consider the buzz or alternate start of lip vibration to be an insignificant semantic argument with no redeeming value. We are talking about the same thing: ignition of the lips, initialization of the vibrating mode. Regardless if one calls it Phooey or a buzz, fact is, we blow air through the lips with a certain amount of lip tension and they resonate. This blow can be a relaxed exhale to a forceful expulsion of air. Articulation comes later when we modify the start to "speak". To speak a "phoo or foo" we would need our lower teeth on the upper lip prior to ignition. That certainly does not line up with most embouchures - especially considering that most have an overbite (upper teeth in front of lower teeth). Perhaps for players with an underbite (upper teeth behind the lower teeth) phoo would be what at least they "think" that they are doing. Considering that ignition needs freely vibrating lips, beyond the exhale, it really does not matter.

Some players have trouble with a free buzz. That is in most cases insignificant as we always play trumpet through a mouthpiece. Some players have trouble with a buzz through a mouthpiece. This is also in many cases insignificant as we rely on the resonances of the horn to modulate and stabilize pitch. Some like buzzing free, on the mouthpiece or with some resonance enhancing scheme (leadpipe or P.E.T.E). Good for them. It never helped my playing and I never taught it. I certainly would not criticize another teacher with good experience in buzzing however-as long as the player is getting a well balanced routine every day.

I found the arguments at TrumpetMaster regarding this to be little more than annoying as the real issues of getting the sound started are masked in senseless arguing.

If we can't get our semantics to line up, then beating a dead horse is not productive. Let us just talk about ignition instead.

As far as Yamahas claim to deeper cups being more mellow, science backs this up. The more cup volume, the more it acts like a low pass acoustical filter - reducing upper harmonics (compared to a cup with less volume). Less harmonics is a "darker/more mellow" sound.

The throat/backbore indeed also has great effect on sound and intonation as well as efficiency. That has nothing to do with Yamahas claims at the mentioned website.

We should never forget that the target audience determines the semantics. The casual reader really could care less and at least gets some valid pre-chewed recommendations. As they advance in perception and capability, they go elsewhere for mor detailed info.

It is important to recognize context when talking about "quality". A students instrument can have a very high quality, but the focus is on different things!
A beginner handles their instrument more by "chance" than by "experience". This means that a student instrument must be very durable to insure good mechanical properties even when not regularly maintained. The next mark of a high quality student instrument is how easily it "speaks". It needs to resonate easily with good tone. The player has to hear themselves easily. The valves will not have as tight of a tolerance to prevent them from hanging when not regularly brushing teeth before playing!

I will leave out "intermediate" instruments as I personally really see no musical sense to them. We can move from a Yamaha 2xxx or 3xxx directly to the 8xxx series for instance.

Professional instruments are not "soldered or designed better" than the student instruments. The improvements are in the time it takes to manipulate the materials for a playing response more closely connected to the players intentions. Instead of "durability", materials are used that allow a greater choice of playing colors, perhaps more ease of playing extremely soft and loud. The ability for "articulation" to be heard. A more controllable transition from clear to brilliant in a crescendo. In many cases, professional instruments have considerably more manual labor in their construction and that costs money.

I certainly agree that buying a beginner a pro horn normally does no one a favor. we start on a bicycle with training wheels, not carbon fiber rims. As our use case matures, we have opportunities to offer more colorful playing. A professional instrument can help us tap those talents by giving our ears/brain less gaps to fill in. When our vocabulary and quality of musical speech warrant it, the pro horn lets us shine through more.

@Kehaulani said in RIP Trumpet "Master":

If I'm not mistaking, the Circle of Breath is not rowuk's but is just another way of describing time honored techniques. No disrespect to rowuk, who's posts I always enjoyed and am grateful for lot of good advice, but what is unique about it to give it a distinct name and attribute the techniques to any one man. What did I miss?

I will assume that this statement was made because I only posted Circle of Breath at the now dead Trumpetmaster.

This is true. The concepts in the „Circle of Breath“ are age old, tried and true. They are a complete routine that I have been using since the 1970s. I do not know of anyone else that coined the phrase „Circle of Breath“ in this context so I will take credit for the name. Aligning the body first(Yoga, Feldenkrais, Alexander Technique), deep relaxed breath, playing longtones and slurs without an attack (Irons and others) are certainly not unique. I was always surprised that there are many (even accomplished) players that were never introduced to these basic concepts. This combination has been effective with every player that I have worked with. Just to outline the process:

1. Prepared body - straight/aligned to allow for a deep relaxed breath
2. exhale into long tones. We teach our lips to ignite on a wisp of air. The tongue tip is later used only to shape the articulation - not enable ignition of the lips
3. exhale into lipslurs

The circle is divided into two sections. At the bottom (6 o‘clock) we start our inhale. At 12 o‘clock we switch to exhale with all of the smoothness that a circle has. We exhale to 6 o‘clock and then the smooth transition to inhale starts. The time to inhale is not fixed.

We breathe through the nose as long as there is time enough. The air is moistened and adjusted in temperature.
If we do NOT have time, we breathe through the mouth.

Both methods of inhale must be practiced as well as their transition to exhale and back.

I use the Irons lip flexibilities book for the lipslur part.

Please feel free to move this post anywhere that would better serve the community.

Here is a method of creating a cheap but effective practice mute. I saw this mute at the international Natural Trumpet Workshop near Basel 2 weeks ago, so I am just sharing/documenting the idea.

In Germany, we have 2 "single portion" types of Coke bottles. .33 liters or for the more thirsty, .5 liters.

1. The first step is to get rid of the Coke (in my case Coke Zero)! Then wash out the bottle and let dry.
   
2. Now cut the top off as in the picture. Leave a little of the straight sides to provide a flat gluing surface:
   
3. Cut the bottom off as shown and discard the middle part:
   
4. Test the top and bottom parts for fit:
   
5. Glue both parts together with your favorite glue and use tape to secure during the drying process(make sure that the glue is suitable for PET):
   
6. Cut off the rim on the neck:
   
   
7. For the gasket between the mute and bell I used a bicycle grip
   
   
8. Drill a hole in the top a bit smaller than a drinking straw
   
9. for the 0.33 liter mute( middle) cut a straw to 3cm and glue it into the hole. For the 0.5 liter mute (right), a 2cm length works well
   

Longer straw lengths do not reduce volume as much but are more free blowing. Too short lengths reduce volume but are very stuffy/fuzzy

@barliman2001 said in Did something change?:

@ROWUK I agree with you that TB has not yet reached the kind of wealth of information that TM had... but then, many old TM members did not switch to TB when TM suddenly went dead.

I do not think that the problem is number of members. What bothers me is who posts why. I do not share the sense of humor of others and having an opinion just because we can is not always a good reason to torpedo threads. I am convinced that many think that they are funny and do not even realize the damage that they do. Sometimes just keeping a thread serious would be a great course of action. The NY Phil controversy is a good example. What torpedoed it had nothing to do with the charge or the aftermath. The second thread was simply embarassing.

Here are a couple of my wood projects:
Cherry

Oak

Baltic Birch Plywood (the horns are fibreglass)

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus. Players buy custom horns because they CAN, not because they musically "have to".

There is a concept that the horn finds the player that I think is very true - but how much opportunity do we get to play those custom horns long enough before we pay? Being honest - essentially never. Has anyone checked out how many used custom horns are available - more than one would expect considering how special they are supposed to be.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player. Well, the truth is that all of those custom builders are giving you what they believe. You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing. Who has the ability to finesse the strengths of a player in the match of instrument. I can only think of one manufacturer that does and it only works like that on the second, third or fourth instrument.

So, my take is:

1. start safe with a "standard" Bach, Schilke, Yamaha if you are really serious. Then as time goes on and dues are paid, play everything that you can get your hands on. Visit players that have "interesting horns" and take your time.
2. if you get a second horn, play it exclusively for a while to get intimate with it
3. NEVER EVER believe that hardware will solve a software problem.

"Stiffer" and "faster" are two completely different things.

My experience is that the speed of the valve is based on mass, proper break in, correct oiling and freedom from aerosols/deposits - not spring tension. If any of these factors are not tightly controlled, we can have a stiffer spring, but no increase in performance. Stretching a spring offers no performance increase at all and the possibility that the spring is no longer true which would actually hurt performance.

That being said, I have never had a trumpet after cleaning and adjustment that was too slow with the standard springs. I did have a period where I wanted a stiffer feel - that actually made me more consciously bang the valves down.

Let us remember that there are two parts to valve action - first down, then back up. Stiffer springs can very well slow down the down stroke by increasing resistance to compression. Our fingers do not behave in a linear fashion.

In my world there is no "best" or even "beginners" mouthpiece. The Bach 7C is popular because it is not too big, not too little, it has a slightly sharper inner rim which in my opinion works well with chops that simply don't get enough practice. The critical part for beginners is NOT buying a bigger or smaller mouthpiece, rather getting them lessons with someone who cares enough to lead them to superior body and breath use. The faster that they let their playing ride on that flow of air, the faster they will have little dependency on mouthpiece to fill the job (sound great, play in tune, blend in school band).

Anything smaller than a 7C or bigger than a 3C, I consider to be a specialty mouthpiece and one should know themselves why they chose them. I only played for a year on a 7C. Then it was clear that I was on track for classical playing. I was playing cornet at the time and switched to a 1C with only a week or two of acclimation. That is only proof that my trumpet teacher did his job (and that I practiced a little more than required)!

Our central nervous system is a very fickle thing. It can remember things that we did decades before and can "store" "rewards" for things that we have done. There are many schools of thought on how to deal with these hard wired reactions. Some recommend seeing a shrink, others start yoga class or Alexander Technique lessons. Others (like myself) find a Feldenkrais or a Cranio Sacral therapist. This method actually deals with helping us get a new inner organisation. The therapy is very gentle and everyone that I know that has taken it seriously has reaped large benefits.

In your case, you did the right thing first: checked for physical damage. Now I would recommend going to https://www.davemonette.com (no, I am not trying to sell a mouthpiece or trumpet - and he will not either). Click around the site and see if anything rings. If yes, then click on "Contact" and write a short description of your situation. Then either call or wait for an answer. You can also google Moshe Feldenkrais if you want to know more about some of the background

I am convinced that this is a very good way to get over this. There are no painful massages or physical rehab punishment. Normally, we notice "improvement" right away but many times, we need more time to get out heads around what is going on. Dave is very in tune with brass players. He is very to the point about the way things work in his world. You can write if you have more questions, I will be on the road this week on a business trip so I will not be monitoring 24/7.

@walter-sk Microns separate easy and hard removal. It is still a simple job for a tech but "all your strength" could make the repair very costly.
I have had students with this problem. It can happen if one lays the trumpet down with the 2nd slide underneath. It takes a small hit (no dent) and it is microns out...

Anything with Sara Niemietz!

Training wheels/ breath marks. Sounds like fightin‘ words!
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Measures on a tank of air? Equally juvenile.

We have to inhale in a way that lets us exhale without having to release „compression“ or „expansion“ muscle tension first. One of the major flaws in tanking up for maximum measures is that we create tension that we have no routine to remove musically for.
Yes, we can expand breathing capacity. That involves an organized, prepared body, no brute force!

Sara Niemietz with Snuffy Waldon or Post Modern Jukebox. This lady has so much fun singing, it is contagious. Inspirational!

The safest place to cut a trumpet is where the bell enters the valve block. Cutting it at the tuning slide can make for some wacky intonation.

@_mark_
I believe that you are not in any position to comment on anything except the symptoms that you notice. Trying to "analyse" the issue with no base knowledge just leads to useless hardware and embouchure changes.
Irregular teeth are no issue unless you learned to play on perfect teeth and then they got messed up in an accident (ask me how I know).
Moving the mouthpiece around is poison and where exactly it is, is certainly not a problem for getting started and playing up to G on top of the staff. My experience is that a proper daily routine promotes evolution - not revolution. Embouchure is fine motor activity, not building a six pack. Low impact repetitions! Lipslurs, longtones!

I am sure that multiphonics can be generated with a combination of lips and humming/singing or only with a weak embouchure. The mouthpiece in the "wrong place" would not be the cause of the double buzz, rather simple weak chops from lack of constructive practice.

I do not consider scales to be evil or out of place. They are simply part of the low impact repetition toolbox that can give a student patterns for recall in many different contexts. They are an essential part of holistic development in my world. I use them for teaching just about every technical discipline that a trumpeter must develop: time, transposition, intonation, articulation, range. Naturally they are not the "only" things taught. We had a discussion about proportions during practice/ lessons at TrumpetMaster. I remember agreeing with several about approximately 1/3rd body use, 1/3rd technical studies and 1/3rd tunes/repertoire. We discussed the issues surrounding a "too rigid" structure and having the student in clear focus. During periods of high dedication, we the teachers can raise the bar at many levels - if we have a method to even define the bar..

My personal view is that we must feed our internal reward system. Measurable success changes the way that our central nervous system processes stimuli. Mosche Feldenkrais and several Yogis deal with this at an even higher level.

Proper use of scales makes the Haydn, Hummel, Neruda, Tartini, Verdi Requiem, Tschaikowsky 5 certainly "easier".

@administrator said in Mouthpiece issue:

A wider rim will likely lead to quicker fatigue. That's been my experience, at least.

Maybe you should try some mouthpieces from the baroque era. They are much larger than modern mouthpieces and have very large flat rims - but no shortage of high notes!

Pedal tones are the fundamental tones based on the length of the trumpet. They correspond to 1 wavelength. The next tone (2 wavelengths) in the partial series is an octave higher - on an open trumpet, low C. 3 wavelengths corresponds to a second line "g". 4 wavelengths is third space C., 5 is E, 6 is g on top of the staff, 7 is Bb above the staff and 8 wavelengths are C above the staff. Notice that every doubling of the wavelength is an octave higher for C 1, 2, 4 and 8. For G 3 and 6.