@Dr-GO Yes, I do browse the site from time to time. I do happen to be busy with many things (performances and preparing for a master class) that keep me away from casual computing.

As far as my posting at TrumpetMaster, that was an outlet for many concepts that I use when teaching and in my „industry“ job.

As far as grudges go, I am sorry that hindsight has not changed some peoples view of the world. Those that were banned had a „long series“ of behavior that was not „community“. In general, the admins posted in a protected area about those people and we were able to get other opinions before taking any action. Who actually banned who was not always clear as there was no flag visible to admins.

Wilmer died, may he rest in piece. All of the real professionals at TrumpetMaster had a certain degree of frustration with certain members who seemed to think that the supposed anonimity of the web gave them license to spew stupidity. I am convinced that in a real 1 on 1 lesson, the tone would have been completely different - far more respectful. I also often considered leaving TrumpetMaster but in the end, the real problem children (those only on transmit (TX) but not receive (RX)) were so few and the quantity of „respectful“ members gave me joy.

The essence of what I posted was just to take a step back, view the issue in its entirety and address the root cause instead of offering a patch for a symptom. This strategy works everywhere except in marriage (that being said, I have been with the same wife - my first - since 1978).

I still am not ready to make a commitment like I made to myself at TrumpetMaster. I am disappointed in the owner of TrumpetMaster for no warning or communication about closure. I certainly hope that the problem was not due to death or health issues.

Keep practicing!

Robin

I remember the Buzz/Phooey discussion at TrumpetMaster. It went nowhere fast.

The lips open and close like a valve at a rate related to the length of the trumpet. Each fingering has multiple notes based on the wavelength being played. The pedal note is one wavelength in the instrument. Low C is 2 wavelengths, G is 3 wavelengths, third space C is 4 wavelengths. This continues until our lips are no longer able to open and close - due to pressure, tension or lack of being supple.

I consider the buzz or alternate start of lip vibration to be an insignificant semantic argument with no redeeming value. We are talking about the same thing: ignition of the lips, initialization of the vibrating mode. Regardless if one calls it Phooey or a buzz, fact is, we blow air through the lips with a certain amount of lip tension and they resonate. This blow can be a relaxed exhale to a forceful expulsion of air. Articulation comes later when we modify the start to "speak". To speak a "phoo or foo" we would need our lower teeth on the upper lip prior to ignition. That certainly does not line up with most embouchures - especially considering that most have an overbite (upper teeth in front of lower teeth). Perhaps for players with an underbite (upper teeth behind the lower teeth) phoo would be what at least they "think" that they are doing. Considering that ignition needs freely vibrating lips, beyond the exhale, it really does not matter.

Some players have trouble with a free buzz. That is in most cases insignificant as we always play trumpet through a mouthpiece. Some players have trouble with a buzz through a mouthpiece. This is also in many cases insignificant as we rely on the resonances of the horn to modulate and stabilize pitch. Some like buzzing free, on the mouthpiece or with some resonance enhancing scheme (leadpipe or P.E.T.E). Good for them. It never helped my playing and I never taught it. I certainly would not criticize another teacher with good experience in buzzing however-as long as the player is getting a well balanced routine every day.

I found the arguments at TrumpetMaster regarding this to be little more than annoying as the real issues of getting the sound started are masked in senseless arguing.

If we can't get our semantics to line up, then beating a dead horse is not productive. Let us just talk about ignition instead.

As far as Yamahas claim to deeper cups being more mellow, science backs this up. The more cup volume, the more it acts like a low pass acoustical filter - reducing upper harmonics (compared to a cup with less volume). Less harmonics is a "darker/more mellow" sound.

The throat/backbore indeed also has great effect on sound and intonation as well as efficiency. That has nothing to do with Yamahas claims at the mentioned website.

We should never forget that the target audience determines the semantics. The casual reader really could care less and at least gets some valid pre-chewed recommendations. As they advance in perception and capability, they go elsewhere for mor detailed info.

@Kehaulani said in RIP Trumpet "Master":

If I'm not mistaking, the Circle of Breath is not rowuk's but is just another way of describing time honored techniques. No disrespect to rowuk, who's posts I always enjoyed and am grateful for lot of good advice, but what is unique about it to give it a distinct name and attribute the techniques to any one man. What did I miss?

I will assume that this statement was made because I only posted Circle of Breath at the now dead Trumpetmaster.

This is true. The concepts in the „Circle of Breath“ are age old, tried and true. They are a complete routine that I have been using since the 1970s. I do not know of anyone else that coined the phrase „Circle of Breath“ in this context so I will take credit for the name. Aligning the body first(Yoga, Feldenkrais, Alexander Technique), deep relaxed breath, playing longtones and slurs without an attack (Irons and others) are certainly not unique. I was always surprised that there are many (even accomplished) players that were never introduced to these basic concepts. This combination has been effective with every player that I have worked with. Just to outline the process:

1. Prepared body - straight/aligned to allow for a deep relaxed breath
2. exhale into long tones. We teach our lips to ignite on a wisp of air. The tongue tip is later used only to shape the articulation - not enable ignition of the lips
3. exhale into lipslurs

The circle is divided into two sections. At the bottom (6 o‘clock) we start our inhale. At 12 o‘clock we switch to exhale with all of the smoothness that a circle has. We exhale to 6 o‘clock and then the smooth transition to inhale starts. The time to inhale is not fixed.

We breathe through the nose as long as there is time enough. The air is moistened and adjusted in temperature.
If we do NOT have time, we breathe through the mouth.

Both methods of inhale must be practiced as well as their transition to exhale and back.

I use the Irons lip flexibilities book for the lipslur part.

Please feel free to move this post anywhere that would better serve the community.

Here is a method of creating a cheap but effective practice mute. I saw this mute at the international Natural Trumpet Workshop near Basel 2 weeks ago, so I am just sharing/documenting the idea.

In Germany, we have 2 "single portion" types of Coke bottles. .33 liters or for the more thirsty, .5 liters.

1. The first step is to get rid of the Coke (in my case Coke Zero)! Then wash out the bottle and let dry.
   
2. Now cut the top off as in the picture. Leave a little of the straight sides to provide a flat gluing surface:
   
3. Cut the bottom off as shown and discard the middle part:
   
4. Test the top and bottom parts for fit:
   
5. Glue both parts together with your favorite glue and use tape to secure during the drying process(make sure that the glue is suitable for PET):
   
6. Cut off the rim on the neck:
   
   
7. For the gasket between the mute and bell I used a bicycle grip
   
   
8. Drill a hole in the top a bit smaller than a drinking straw
   
9. for the 0.33 liter mute( middle) cut a straw to 3cm and glue it into the hole. For the 0.5 liter mute (right), a 2cm length works well
   

Longer straw lengths do not reduce volume as much but are more free blowing. Too short lengths reduce volume but are very stuffy/fuzzy

@barliman2001 said in Did something change?:

@ROWUK I agree with you that TB has not yet reached the kind of wealth of information that TM had... but then, many old TM members did not switch to TB when TM suddenly went dead.

I do not think that the problem is number of members. What bothers me is who posts why. I do not share the sense of humor of others and having an opinion just because we can is not always a good reason to torpedo threads. I am convinced that many think that they are funny and do not even realize the damage that they do. Sometimes just keeping a thread serious would be a great course of action. The NY Phil controversy is a good example. What torpedoed it had nothing to do with the charge or the aftermath. The second thread was simply embarassing.

Here are a couple of my wood projects:
Cherry

Oak

Baltic Birch Plywood (the horns are fibreglass)

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus. Players buy custom horns because they CAN, not because they musically "have to".

There is a concept that the horn finds the player that I think is very true - but how much opportunity do we get to play those custom horns long enough before we pay? Being honest - essentially never. Has anyone checked out how many used custom horns are available - more than one would expect considering how special they are supposed to be.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player. Well, the truth is that all of those custom builders are giving you what they believe. You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing. Who has the ability to finesse the strengths of a player in the match of instrument. I can only think of one manufacturer that does and it only works like that on the second, third or fourth instrument.

So, my take is:

1. start safe with a "standard" Bach, Schilke, Yamaha if you are really serious. Then as time goes on and dues are paid, play everything that you can get your hands on. Visit players that have "interesting horns" and take your time.
2. if you get a second horn, play it exclusively for a while to get intimate with it
3. NEVER EVER believe that hardware will solve a software problem.

"Stiffer" and "faster" are two completely different things.

My experience is that the speed of the valve is based on mass, proper break in, correct oiling and freedom from aerosols/deposits - not spring tension. If any of these factors are not tightly controlled, we can have a stiffer spring, but no increase in performance. Stretching a spring offers no performance increase at all and the possibility that the spring is no longer true which would actually hurt performance.

That being said, I have never had a trumpet after cleaning and adjustment that was too slow with the standard springs. I did have a period where I wanted a stiffer feel - that actually made me more consciously bang the valves down.

Let us remember that there are two parts to valve action - first down, then back up. Stiffer springs can very well slow down the down stroke by increasing resistance to compression. Our fingers do not behave in a linear fashion.

I am sure the quiet is just temporary...

A contentious thread got locked down, a second one was started - but immediately reduced to a very low level bickering that had nothing to do with the original theme. That second thread was also locked down. I have no indication if any resolution was attempted by PM before the first or second lockdown. If I was new here, I would just leave. I stay because there are some old friends, unfortunately not because of the "content".

I continue to see reasons why I do not post much in any trumpet forums anymore. The threads get way off track, the clowns inject "junk", the value add for new members is teaching them to find content in a lot of wasted bits. Kind of like panning for gold...

@_mark_
Hi Mark,
the biggest issue is simply giving yourself enough time to build the right habits the first time around. The trumpet is first and foremost a "wind instrument", and that should be your focus.

Most trumpeters go through various stages of development. We start with "whatever we can get" and advance to a level that is hard to break though. Then we figure something out (or get help) and the next step comes along. At one point in time, we all have a bit of proficiency BUT want more range and end up using pressure to get it. This is legitimate, as pressure works - up to a point. The problem is, if we build a pressure habit, we will have to break it to get to the next step. Habits are tough to break as any drinker/smoker can tell us.

When we are at this stage, we need to ask the questions - how much is improvement worth and when does it make sense to make any changes. Very often a decision is made in mid playing season and the player only ends up screwing up his own reputation.

We make changes out of playing season! We can lay the plans and make preparations but never ever take a risk during times when we can play in public!

As far as teeth go, mine are crooked and I played to the side for 30 years. Then I mage some changes in my routine (more lipslurs and longtones), and the embouchure wandered more or less to the middle where I have been playing for the last 25 years.

I had an accident 18 months ago and now have a full denture instead the bottom teeth (no choice). Thanks to the Corona season, I had time to adjust and my playing is about where it was before the accident. My Circle of Breath, Earl Irons lip flexibilities, long tones and a lot of hymnbook were the way back.

As far as a teacher goes, I really do recommend getting some lessons early to at least get the daily routine, body use and ones own expectations pointed in the right direction. After that, success is very dependent on the players motivations. Even after 55 years of playing at all levels, I still take occasional lessons - some trumpet, some body use. There is still a whole lot to learn.

Best regards and good luck,

Rowuk

@_mark_
Hi Mark,
the biggest issue is simply giving yourself enough time to build the right habits the first time around. The trumpet is first and foremost a "wind instrument", and that should be your focus.

Most trumpeters go through various stages of development. We start with "whatever we can get" and advance to a level that is hard to break though. Then we figure something out (or get help) and the next step comes along. At one point in time, we all have a bit of proficiency BUT want more range and end up using pressure to get it. This is legitimate, as pressure works - up to a point. The problem is, if we build a pressure habit, we will have to break it to get to the next step. Habits are tough to break as any drinker/smoker can tell us.

When we are at this stage, we need to ask the questions - how much is improvement worth and when does it make sense to make any changes. Very often a decision is made in mid playing season and the player only ends up screwing up his own reputation.

We make changes out of playing season! We can lay the plans and make preparations but never ever take a risk during times when we can play in public!

As far as teeth go, mine are crooked and I played to the side for 30 years. Then I mage some changes in my routine (more lipslurs and longtones), and the embouchure wandered more or less to the middle where I have been playing for the last 25 years.

I had an accident 18 months ago and now have a full denture instead the bottom teeth (no choice). Thanks to the Corona season, I had time to adjust and my playing is about where it was before the accident. My Circle of Breath, Earl Irons lip flexibilities, long tones and a lot of hymnbook were the way back.

As far as a teacher goes, I really do recommend getting some lessons early to at least get the daily routine, body use and ones own expectations pointed in the right direction. After that, success is very dependent on the players motivations. Even after 55 years of playing at all levels, I still take occasional lessons - some trumpet, some body use. There is still a whole lot to learn.

Best regards and good luck,

Rowuk

My experience with Chinese instruments has been very good. We just have to understand that they do not decide on the quality, they just build to order.

When I last visited, I saw the production lines. If some customer wants a $50 trumpet, they will build it. For $51, you get some nickel silver trim, for $52, a bit thicker metal. $55 gets you a couple of mu more Monel on the valves... And so it goes up to their most expensive instruments that cost maybe $650 each (including mouthpiece, case and white gloves) when a container full is ordered. The realistically purchased instruments are VERY, VERY good!

The bad guy is not the manufacturer, rather the customer that is willing to pawn off cheap on their customers.

320kbps MP3. Respectable sound for a free download! I wonder if the original recording has better sound?

Thanks Dale for the link!

A tuner is often the worst thing that we can do to our playing. Drones, Stamp and simple duets (not recording one voice and then the next however - then only one voice "gives" - the second one!) are about the best.
The tuner is almost always wrong except for establishing a one note reference.

There are a couple of internal mechanisms for tuning, none are accessible from the intellectual level.
Drones teach us to relate with sum and difference beats
Stamp teaches to find the resonant center
Duets teach us give and take in the context of ensemble playing.

The consummate trumpeter needs it all. We need thousands of repetitions to claim "habit".

@masterwannabe Used trumpets are a buyers market - with very few exceptions. I would have no personal interest at all for me or my students. It would make a nice lamp - that is what I will do with my Monette Raja C when I retire from trumpet playing.

@masterwannabe This is, for western standards, at best an intermediate trumpet. It looks like a Bb/C instrument. It is not "rare" or "valuable" in my view.

Arban only speaks about the Cornet á piston or simply "piston". I have never seen any reference tying Arban to a rotary valved anything. It also looks like someone else besides the bell engraver engraved the name into the bell.
I would be interested to see what proof Josh got of the provenance of this instrument.

Congratulations!

I have found that range becomes useful when we can integrate it into our "style". We need to know when the leading edge of "higher notes" must be round and fluffy or razor sharp. In the non rehearsal times, play along with any recordings that you have. An acid test would be to use headphones to hear the band and record JUST your playing. Afterwards the warts become very obvious when the band sound does not mask.

Have fun, stay healthy!

I did not see any new format. In any case, what aggrevates me most is "wasted space" that makes me have to scroll to see even only a couple of lines. Facebook is my biggest loser 2020 in this respect.

Very nice!