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Old Guys (and gals) Club

  • RE: Student trumpet

    @Trumpetb, I report my first hand experience. I did not say that the importer dictated price. I said that the manufacturers have a catalog of options and that the importer can put instruments together from junk to great. The assumption that there must be a moral obligation in commerce is simply naive on your part. That is why there are laws to protect the end customer.

    What I do not like is that you derail this thread (as usual with far too many words) which is about somebody selling an instrument because of the perceived category being “student quality”.

    posted in Historical & Collector's Items
  • RE: Student trumpet

    @Trumpetb in my view it is a mistake to bring "junk" into this discussion. First of all, who has EVER tried to justify the purchase of those trumpet shaped objects here at Trumpetboards? It simply is not going to happen.

    The second issue is that it is mistaken to call them "chinese" or "indian" instruments. Those countries have their manufacturing processes under control and the IMPORTER decides what the instrument should be. During a concert tour to China, I in fact visited a manufacturer. I saw trumpets being built on one assembly line and automobile doors on the next line, lamps on another. I spoke with their sales department and they explained that their "cheapest" instrument costs $50 each if you buy a container full. That instrument would not meet any standard that someone posting here would accept BUT you can also spend $51 and get a nickel ring soldered somewhere, $55 and get a "gold brass" bell. Decent valves (by my standard) are available on instruments costing >$75 and so it goes up to a truly professional standard for between $600 and $700. So, the guilty scum is not the manufacturer, rather the importer and sales organisation without respect for their customers. What gets built is 100% what the customer orders. There is nothing on the planet that can not be made cheaper by changing the demands.

    The third issue is price as a parameter for quality. This is not true in ANY industry. A good student instrument costs less than a professional one because the requirements for the instrument can be more or less automated to keep the price down and because the manufacturers can sell more of them. Nuance requires more individual attention in the USA, Europe, Japan and China. That drives the price of a pro trumpet up.

    posted in Historical & Collector's Items
  • RE: Student trumpet

    @Anthony-Lenzo Without wanting to turn the discussion negative, just because one likes an instrument does not mean that it is really good or bad. It ONLY means that with the perceptual tools that we currently have available, we can form an opinion (that is only valid for ourselves).

    The difference between a "student" and "professional" trumpet has nothing to do with the "quality" of the instrument, rather the intended customer. Student instruments are generally more forgiving when not properly maintained. Student instruments do not "need" superior breath support for relatively good intonation. The blow is better suited to the development of embouchure and useable lung capacity. Professional instruments in the hands of many students generally offer more disadvantages and seldom a better playing experience. This is because nuance is neither heard nor felt in "early" stages of playing.

    We get into this "classification" discussion when less experienced members feel a need to "justify" their purchases. What I get from the postings has more to do with understanding their perceptual state and confirmation that a serious exchange of "nuance" is not yet possible.

    My stand is to get an instrument that suits the situation and not to buy something that our playing is not qualified for. I generally start my students with something like a Yamaha 3xxx student series instruments. That promotes good habits, prevents excuses and if the student stays motivated, after 3 or 4 years gives them the substantial foundation to pick something that is suitable for the NEXT playing situations.

    We can judge instruments by labels, we just need them from ears and people that we can trust - not self proclaimed internet armchair experts.

    posted in Historical & Collector's Items
  • RE: European Folklore Festival Bitburg - Call for Players

    I should join. I’ve been meaning to visit Prague.

    posted in Announcements
  • RE: Vintage F. Besson Approximate Year?

    That is gorgeous. Perfect condition.

    posted in Historical & Collector's Items
  • RE: Buescher Aristocrat 264 - value?

    @J-Jericho said in Buescher Aristocrat 264 - value?:

    @barliman2001 I figured yours might not show up well in my search; It doesn't make sense that you would have a crappy horn. It it also looks like ChatGPT can be a useful tool.

    It's fantastic. I keep finding new uses for it.

    posted in Bb & C Trumpets
  • RE: Buescher Aristocrat 264 - value?

    Here's what ChatGPT says:

    The value of your Buescher Aristocrat 264 Bb trumpet depends on several factors, including its condition, rarity, demand, and market trends. Since you mentioned it's in excellent condition (90% original lacquer, short-stroke valves with as-new compression, and all-original components), it is likely to appeal to collectors or players seeking vintage instruments.

    Here are some factors to help you gauge its value:

    1. Comparable Listings: Research current listings for similar vintage Buescher Aristocrat trumpets in equivalent condition. Check platforms like:

      • eBay
      • Reverb.com
      • Specialist brass instrument shops
      • Trumpet forums or classifieds

      Based on recent sales, similar trumpets often range from $400 to $1,000, with exceptional examples occasionally fetching higher prices.

    2. Rarity and Desirability:

      • Buescher Aristocrats are well-regarded for their craftsmanship and warm tone.
      • If your 264 model is from a particularly desirable production year, it may increase its value. Serial numbers can help identify the exact year and era of manufacture.
    3. Condition:

      • The 90% original lacquer and excellent valve compression are significant selling points.
      • Mention the absence of dents, scratches, or repairs (if true), as this enhances value.
    4. Market Appeal:

      • Big band players and vintage brass enthusiasts may value the 264 for its tone and playability.
      • Highlight its short-stroke valves, as this feature is relatively rare and may appeal to specific players.
    5. Pricing Strategy:

      • If you want to sell quickly, list it in the lower-middle range (e.g., $600–$800).
      • If you're in no rush, start at the higher end (e.g., $900–$1,200) and negotiate.
    6. Documentation and Accessories:

      • Include any original case, mouthpiece, or paperwork if available. These can increase the instrument's perceived value.

    To maximize your sale:

    • Take high-quality photos showing all angles, including serial numbers, valves, and engraving.
    • Provide a detailed description emphasizing its features, condition, and why it stands out.
    • Consider offering it on a platform with a focus on musicians to target the right audience.

    If you want more specific pricing suggestions, sharing the serial number or production year can help refine the estimate.

    posted in Bb & C Trumpets
  • The AI Orchestra

    posted in Music Discussion
  • RE: Vuvuzela

    Are these instruments made in Venevuvuzela?

    posted in Historical & Collector's Items
  • Please Help Bobby Bradford

    This is copied from a post on TrumpetHerald by user kristiner:

    Friends, jazz legend Bobby Bradford has lost his home in the LA wildfires. There's a GoFundMe link below if you're inclined and able to help:

    Bobby Bradford is one of the most vital and iconic voices in creative music, a trumpeter, cornetist, bandleader, and composer whose career spans the better part of a century. At 90 years old, Bobby helped to innovative free jazz with Ornette Coleman, changed the landscape of West Coast music in his collaborations with John Carter, and has worked with a staggering cast of artists that spans the likes of Nels Cline, Andrew Cyrille, Johnny Dyani, Vinny Golia, David Murray, William Parker, John Stevens, and countless others.

    Sadly, Bobby lost his Altadena home in the 2025 greater Los Angeles wildfires. He and his wife, Lisa, escaped with only the clothes on their backs. Bobby lost his instruments and countless other items of personal and historical significance. This emergency fundraiser fulfills the desperate need to secure this invaluable artist some sense of normalcy in the aftermath of a devastating event.

    https://gofund.me/ca058e3d

    Karl is a friend of Bobby's, and this fundraiser is legit. Bobby has been a father figure to so many in the LA jazz community. I'm on the board of the California Alliance for Jazz, and we are just about to honor him with a Lifetime Achievement Award for jazz education at the CASMEC conference next week.

    So many LA musicians and people in the arts community have had their lives completely turned upside down in the past few days. Please share and support if you can.

    posted in Announcements