Posts made by ROWUK

@flugler Quoting us a price from Japan is very unrealistic as the market there is primarily for collectors - not players. Everywhere else in the world, people are looking for deals. 6 grand+ gets me a Monette or a Martin - both certainly in a different league than the Calicchio. Maybe I have not been paying attention here at TrumpetBoards, but I do not know of anyone here in that "more money than common sense" market.
The price is fine for Japan. That type of money here would be banking on the price going up. I do not see that happening. Calicchios reputation at the time was value for the price and Dominics service.

By the way, this is the wrong place for your post. It belongs in the classifieds section.

We have several concepts for pitch. They all need a certain degree of familiarity before we can be "successful".

Playing alone with or without a tuning device is dangerous as we do not play "well tempered". The tuning device is to get our concert Bb "in the ball park". If we play to all the other notes, they will never sound right.

Our performing pitch is always relevant to something else - it can be the last memory, or it can be another instrument or recording.

In addition, if we are playing with serious upper body tension, the pitch will sound sharp even although a tuning device would measure just fine. If we do not have enough tension, the sound is dull and it sounds flat although it may measure OK.

If you are not taking regular lessons, then just play along with recorded music. That can be a a CD with concert band music or marches. It can be church hymns or jazz standards. The important part is that you rediscover having your pitch relative to things around you (accompaniment) as well as playing enough to get a good resonant sound throughout the registers that CAN sound in tune.

Your actual problem is the ear/brain not talking to the body/lungs/embouchure, or the body/lungs/embouchure not reacting predictably to the signals coming from the brain. If you had these skills at one time in your life, then a lot of the work is already done. Simply play enough and those skills will move to the short term memory and become more automatic.

@Trumpetsplus I remember you bringing the ascending C when you visited. Wonderful horn!

@annapants Mike Thompson has very attractive conditions for selling used instruments. I know him and he is the real thing!

Thompson Music Co.
14220 Fort St. Ste. 103, Omaha, NE 68164 (402) 289-9699

When people that we love and admire die, it gives us the opportunity to figure out what they really meant to us. In many cases, towards the end, we see them less and do not "live" the deterioration. The lasting personal memory is of a person getting stuff done.

As we are the sum of all influences in life, we have a lot to be thankful for - but only limited means to "pay back" the debt. Honor the giants on whose shoulders you stand - each in her/his own way. We do not need huge public displays although if the opportunity arises, take it with humility and reverence.

I see death as the release from the earthly state, going to a place with no pain and no need to answer any more questions or solve problems. Our influence can (and should) long extend after death.

4 valved trumpets are NOT an afterthought. The 4th valve is generally a purpose built device. It can be permanently attached to the valve block or integrated into the tuning slide.

We have 4th valves for playing ¼ tones - found in middle east and experimental music.

There are ½ tone valves for easily switching a Bb trumpet to A. These are found mostly on vintage instruments built between 1900 and 1920.

There are also whole tone 4th valves to extend the range of a modern orchestral C trumpet to low E which allows playing the handful of very low Bb parts.

Then there are 4th valves that lower the pitch by a 4th to extend the chromatic range to pedal C. These can often be found on high pitched trumpets like in high G, high A and high Bb. In this case, they extend the range to allow playing the lowest notes for typical baroque music.

One further use of a 4th valve is to allow switching between 2 bells (Bobby Shew Shew horn).

My thoughts are if you are not playing specialty music, the 4th valve is useless and can actually make the instrument harder to play.

@mediocreplayer The analysis of a sticky valve is to first check cleanliness (dirt/damage/distortion - thank you Ivan) and proper lubrication, then comes the interface finger position to valve stroke. Proper lubrication means BONE DRY VALVES AND CASINGS, then oil to create isolation between them. Oil floats on water so drying first is a real part of oiling.
Sometimes we can hone the valves (with a loss of compression) until they work or push the player to change hand position and play with the tips of their fingers.

I have only had issues with used instruments broken in by someone else.

@Anthony-Lenzo

1. Oil floats on water. That makes oiling after playing useless because the bore is covered with condensation. The only oiling that reduces wear is the oiling that prevents two pieces of metal from touching one another.
2. petroleum based oils evaporate mostly within 24 hours making a daily oiling sensible
3. synthetic oils do not evaporate like petroleum based ones, so we really do not need to oil daily. That being said: if we do not brush our teeth really well before playing, the aerosols in our breath will collect and turn the oil to sludge over time. Just adding oil on top of that just makes the sludge thinner.

For valves, I swab the casing every other day and wipe down the valves then when everything is bone dry, reoil. The oil is attached to all moving surfaces and protection is best.

Depending on the make, age and provenance of the horn, a valve job can transform the instrument to even better than new.

@barliman2001 That is why we have alternate fingerings...

@USAFBugler Yes, some older trumpets out of the US were built around A=440 and the current A=442 or 443 just makes life hard to impossible. The solution is to cut the instrument down - preferably at the stem of the bell. Then it could end up better than ever (because you can use it). What usually does not work is shortening it at the tuning slide or mouthpiece.

I have a Selmer Radial 2° D/Eb built in the early 1970s and after taking a bit off of the bell stem to raise the tuning pitch, it is much, much better than before.

@Trumpetb, I report my first hand experience. I did not say that the importer dictated price. I said that the manufacturers have a catalog of options and that the importer can put instruments together from junk to great. The assumption that there must be a moral obligation in commerce is simply naive on your part. That is why there are laws to protect the end customer.

What I do not like is that you derail this thread (as usual with far too many words) which is about somebody selling an instrument because of the perceived category being “student quality”.

@Trumpetb in my view it is a mistake to bring "junk" into this discussion. First of all, who has EVER tried to justify the purchase of those trumpet shaped objects here at Trumpetboards? It simply is not going to happen.

The second issue is that it is mistaken to call them "chinese" or "indian" instruments. Those countries have their manufacturing processes under control and the IMPORTER decides what the instrument should be. During a concert tour to China, I in fact visited a manufacturer. I saw trumpets being built on one assembly line and automobile doors on the next line, lamps on another. I spoke with their sales department and they explained that their "cheapest" instrument costs $50 each if you buy a container full. That instrument would not meet any standard that someone posting here would accept BUT you can also spend $51 and get a nickel ring soldered somewhere, $55 and get a "gold brass" bell. Decent valves (by my standard) are available on instruments costing >$75 and so it goes up to a truly professional standard for between $600 and $700. So, the guilty scum is not the manufacturer, rather the importer and sales organisation without respect for their customers. What gets built is 100% what the customer orders. There is nothing on the planet that can not be made cheaper by changing the demands.

The third issue is price as a parameter for quality. This is not true in ANY industry. A good student instrument costs less than a professional one because the requirements for the instrument can be more or less automated to keep the price down and because the manufacturers can sell more of them. Nuance requires more individual attention in the USA, Europe, Japan and China. That drives the price of a pro trumpet up.

@Anthony-Lenzo Without wanting to turn the discussion negative, just because one likes an instrument does not mean that it is really good or bad. It ONLY means that with the perceptual tools that we currently have available, we can form an opinion (that is only valid for ourselves).

The difference between a "student" and "professional" trumpet has nothing to do with the "quality" of the instrument, rather the intended customer. Student instruments are generally more forgiving when not properly maintained. Student instruments do not "need" superior breath support for relatively good intonation. The blow is better suited to the development of embouchure and useable lung capacity. Professional instruments in the hands of many students generally offer more disadvantages and seldom a better playing experience. This is because nuance is neither heard nor felt in "early" stages of playing.

We get into this "classification" discussion when less experienced members feel a need to "justify" their purchases. What I get from the postings has more to do with understanding their perceptual state and confirmation that a serious exchange of "nuance" is not yet possible.

My stand is to get an instrument that suits the situation and not to buy something that our playing is not qualified for. I generally start my students with something like a Yamaha 3xxx student series instruments. That promotes good habits, prevents excuses and if the student stays motivated, after 3 or 4 years gives them the substantial foundation to pick something that is suitable for the NEXT playing situations.

We can judge instruments by labels, we just need them from ears and people that we can trust - not self proclaimed internet armchair experts.

To address the original post, prices are always relative - even for new horns. In the case of a Martin Committee we have several things contributing to the current high price:

limited quantity of playable instruments
high demand based on the supposed magical properties.

Now, magic IS something that CAN happen between a player and his instrument but that is the catch. The player AND the horn need complementary magic to make this investment worthwhile.

I am convinced that any number of manufacturers could recreate the Committee for a lot less money. There is no magic in the brass or skills required to make one. The issue is, that too few people would buy it because they mostly want the myth first and the story behind having one is created later.

@Anthony-Lenzo I want to be very clear that I am not assuming that your technician made a mistake or was not good! Sometimes there is dirt and damage that the technician can only compensate for. I make a huge difference between repair or restore. Restoration is usually far more costly in terms of time and effort.

Generally, only really serious dents (tube almost mashed together) will affect the intonation.
That being said, a technician that knows enough to tell you if removing the dent can cause a tear or hole, should be able to judge if it is intonation critical. If after a repair, a patch was applied, this will also not have any serious effect on intonation - especially if we are not talking about a professional player and her/his favorite horn!

One recommendation that I would offer to Anthony: please post pictures when you ask questions like this. Maybe we could offer advice BEFORE you make an uninformed decision. Some of us have been doing this for a VERY LONG TIME!

I have never had a dent tear because my tech annealed the dents before doing anything. Annealing is a process to soften the grain structure of metal to reduce stress. It is used when originally forming the tuning slide and slide bows as well as when hammering the bell.

@administrator your suspicion is correct. A real slide trombone. The slide is of no big concern. Habits are built through repetitions and I already have enough alto clef material to get started. I have already committed to a concert in April, so I know what is coming.

I have bought myself an alto trombone (another member of the trumpet family) for Christmas. As the playing register is similar to the trumpet, the mouthpieces are in sizes similar to the baroque trumpet, I thought that I would give it a go.

I will report on my progress. As I have some trumpet playing Advent and Christmas concerts still scheduled, I have not yet played it.

I would never oil the inside. Remember: valve oil is NOT food safe and if you oil the bore, you WILL breathe in the vapor.

Regular maintenance should include bathing the horn in proportion to how often it is played.

Supposedly WD40 is food safe and designed to displace water (WD=Water Displacement). That may be an option, but just as I prefer bathing myself, my horn certainly deserves regular attention too!.

With any vintage instrument it is a question of the true condition, how hard it was played previously and if it gets past these mechanical checks, if we can get the sound that we need.

Granted, there are people that get the warm fuzzies every time the word vintage falls. There it does NOT matter what a reality check is worth.

I would say that about half of the vintage instruments that I have ever played were not worth my time or effort. Pitch, intonation, valves and tone were simply not up to snuff. I have a lot of old instruments but they are ALL PLAYERS.

I do not consider the coprion bells to be special in any way except to the marketing departments. There are simply too many truly sensational instruments based on "standard techniques".