Posts made by ROWUK

To address the original post, prices are always relative - even for new horns. In the case of a Martin Committee we have several things contributing to the current high price:

limited quantity of playable instruments
high demand based on the supposed magical properties.

Now, magic IS something that CAN happen between a player and his instrument but that is the catch. The player AND the horn need complementary magic to make this investment worthwhile.

I am convinced that any number of manufacturers could recreate the Committee for a lot less money. There is no magic in the brass or skills required to make one. The issue is, that too few people would buy it because they mostly want the myth first and the story behind having one is created later.

@Anthony-Lenzo I want to be very clear that I am not assuming that your technician made a mistake or was not good! Sometimes there is dirt and damage that the technician can only compensate for. I make a huge difference between repair or restore. Restoration is usually far more costly in terms of time and effort.

Generally, only really serious dents (tube almost mashed together) will affect the intonation.
That being said, a technician that knows enough to tell you if removing the dent can cause a tear or hole, should be able to judge if it is intonation critical. If after a repair, a patch was applied, this will also not have any serious effect on intonation - especially if we are not talking about a professional player and her/his favorite horn!

One recommendation that I would offer to Anthony: please post pictures when you ask questions like this. Maybe we could offer advice BEFORE you make an uninformed decision. Some of us have been doing this for a VERY LONG TIME!

I have never had a dent tear because my tech annealed the dents before doing anything. Annealing is a process to soften the grain structure of metal to reduce stress. It is used when originally forming the tuning slide and slide bows as well as when hammering the bell.

@administrator your suspicion is correct. A real slide trombone. The slide is of no big concern. Habits are built through repetitions and I already have enough alto clef material to get started. I have already committed to a concert in April, so I know what is coming.

I have bought myself an alto trombone (another member of the trumpet family) for Christmas. As the playing register is similar to the trumpet, the mouthpieces are in sizes similar to the baroque trumpet, I thought that I would give it a go.

I will report on my progress. As I have some trumpet playing Advent and Christmas concerts still scheduled, I have not yet played it.

I would never oil the inside. Remember: valve oil is NOT food safe and if you oil the bore, you WILL breathe in the vapor.

Regular maintenance should include bathing the horn in proportion to how often it is played.

Supposedly WD40 is food safe and designed to displace water (WD=Water Displacement). That may be an option, but just as I prefer bathing myself, my horn certainly deserves regular attention too!.

With any vintage instrument it is a question of the true condition, how hard it was played previously and if it gets past these mechanical checks, if we can get the sound that we need.

Granted, there are people that get the warm fuzzies every time the word vintage falls. There it does NOT matter what a reality check is worth.

I would say that about half of the vintage instruments that I have ever played were not worth my time or effort. Pitch, intonation, valves and tone were simply not up to snuff. I have a lot of old instruments but they are ALL PLAYERS.

I do not consider the coprion bells to be special in any way except to the marketing departments. There are simply too many truly sensational instruments based on "standard techniques".

@Dr-GO said in Goodbye adjustable finger ring:

Freedom abounds with the Martin Committee. No ring needed. With its greasy ability for slotting, the third ring is obsolete. Check out the many pictures of Miles and Botti. You will note an absence of the third slide ring.

Maybe in a Jazz setting, but NEVER in a classical setting. Those centered, resonant low C# and Ds simply need to fit in the section sound and that does not work without mechanical adjustment.

@Richard-III I am not sure that we should move things so quickly. The human state for the most part is infinitely adaptable and there are A LOT OF PLAYERS young and old that play stock Bach Strads or Yamaha Xenos without mods.

The adjustable ring is yet another reason why student instruments do not respond as well as more "professional" ones. Play a series of octave slurs at medium loudness (especially second line G to top of stave) and you will notice a HUGE difference with and without the adjustable ring.
I have NEVER had a student that needed a ring in a different position. In the beginning the pinky goes in the ring and during puberty (when the third slide becomes more important) the ring finger. If the third slide is well maintained, both fingers work well enough!
While we are at it, we teachers have to insure that the valves are not held with a "grip of death", rather just squeezing enough for stability. This also improves response dramatically!

@barliman2001 I have been there and after 4 years, am almost back to where I was before. In my case, an accident knocked the 4 front jaw teeth loose beyond repair. In addition, that started a chain reaction that ultimately resulted in me losing all of my teeth. There seems to be bacteria in the mouth just waiting for trauma.
Dentures were the first step and I learned all about dental cremes and other methods to "glue" them in. I learned that a cup of hot coffee dissolved those dental adhesives, so my diet changed during that time too. As the dentures were pretty much the same as the teeth preceding them, my playing was stable. After the gums all healed (6 months), implants were the solution. After that, the geometry of the mouth changed only by microns, but it still was a very dramatic change and it took a year to get back on track. Fortunately, that was during the Covid pandemic so I did not disappoint any of the people that book me.

If you have any questions, let me know.

@Trumpetb This is my last comment to you:
The subject in this thread is very specific. Your (too) many words seem more like damage control than a better analysis.
I have said everything applicable and will not engage with you in completely unrelated issues.
You can try to bend my words, my meaning whatever, this is not my problem. It is obvious that you know better. What motivation you have to continue is of no interest to me. In my world, people that choose to ignore are "ignorant", meaning conciously choosing to ignore supporting facts. In earlier years, I in fact had a crusade against mouthpiece safaris that have ruined more players than ever helped. Just observing the used mouthpiece market it becomes apparent where the empty promises of range, endurance and sound are. I "saved" several students from this obsession.

It is VERY EASY to tell if an issue is the player or the equipment. The OPs description is perfectly adequate for my analysis and qualified suggestion. There are telltale signs indicating if there is something about a mouthpiece that is not optimal. None in this thread for the OP and none for you based on what you report about your own playing.

The most damaging advice for the question presented in this thread in my opinion is, "just try it". We have an acclimation period and as I said, that can be months. When playing around with our habits, certain controls MUST be met to have a qualified result.

Do not expect any further comments to your posting. It already has gone far beyond anything that I would normally even bother with.

One more snippet out of my lifes path:
The greatest liability to a rehearsal or performance, is the low to medium chops players showing up to a rehearsal with 4 or 5 trumpets and bragging about why each piece needs a different instrument or mouthpiece. This person has lost all connection to reality unless it is an ensemble specialized in period playing with the unlikely bad programming that needs so many instruments.
Now, granted, I have given recitals with the theme "history of the trumpet". In this case, I did have different mouthpieces for my rennaissance natural trumpet, early baroque natural trumpet, late baroque natural trumpet, early classical natural trumpet, classical keyed trumpet, classical valved trumpet, romantic era valved trumpet and then the historical instruments from the 20th century (1911 Holton Clarke model long cornet, 1936 Heckel rotary Bb trumpet). These instruments were played in a solo context to show what was common at the time of manufacture - not forced on an ensemble not capable of embracing and showcasing the specialties.
So, I have a lot of mouthpieces, but never talk about them as my use case is historical performing practice, not everyday community band stuff. For someone with difficulty with G#, a mouthpiece change is the worst advice that I could give

@J-Jericho Great article and many things that I did not know!

@SSmith1226 Nice review, but nothing controversial in my view.

@Trumpetb I understand you actually quite well. I also disagree with a lot that you post - because it all seems so random and not based on real experience. It is also very confusing considering that we have readers that can not tell the difference.
I disagree with "zeroing in" between mouthpiece and each horn - unless the mouthpiece has the same rim and cup and only minor shank work is necessary. Before my Monette period, I used the same mouthpiece on all my trumpets except for when I played lead. Monette builds Bb, C and Eb mouthpieces so I use the same size, cup and throat for all of those horns. Even the flugel and cornet mouthpiece have the same rim.
I would also disagree that mouthpieces GENERALLY change with style unless we are comparing lead to everything else.
We are creatures of habit and to get a stable base, we need to reduce our choices to optimize with the limited time that those of us posting here have.
If accuracy is a non issue for your playing, then the free for all is fine.
I do not need multiple mouthpieces for symphonic, chamber, commercial or big band (except lead). My chosen mouthpiece is dynamic enough in its behaviour that I do not experience problems that I can't fix just by practicing more.
Now, the bogus use of the word physics in this context is worth clarifying. IF high quality playing is critical, we actually have very few choices. We need very clear articulation, clear tone from low to high. We need a tone compatible with the section that we play in as well as great flexibility, security and good intonation. Please do not compare Till Brönner to Maynard Ferguson or Jean Francois Madeuf to Maurice Andre. They also have/had narrow choices that cover(ed) their specialized playing.
So, a lot of words around a very simple concept: jack of no trade and master of none. Creatures of habit need repetitions to develop a flexible tone covering many use cases. Creatures of habit need repetitions to build security and style. For players without a very strong foundation, changes are the primary cause of unreliability. Find the mouthpiece and practice routine that is the best compromise and stick with it.
Remember! this thread is about a player with an elusive high G# - so no lead, solo career, no historical performance practice or anything else with "special" hardware or non compatible tone. No hardware will solve this. It is mind over matter and perhaps Clarke is the answer, or maybe Schlossberg, for others it could just be getting too damn much pressure reduced a little bit.

@Trumpetb You argue about a large quantity of mouthpieces? Knowing that the human state is creature of habit, I would argue that you will NEVER get good enough to really tell the differences if you are constantly switching. I need 6 months with a mouthpiece to get really acclimated and have an opinion. That means 24 mouthpieces for me is 12 years. Considering that our bodies change about every 7 years, only a small portion of what we think that we have learned will stick and the great players are great because they leverage the habit. Random mixing, just mixes the face up and that produces random results.

In my 58 years of play I went from a Bach 1 1/2C (4 years) to a 1C (2 years), to a Schilke 18 (22 years), to a Monette B/C2 (30 years). I always had a "real" reason to change. The 1C was because I started playing in symphonies, the Schilke to improve intonation of my Bach CL 229H and the Monette because I switched to an Ajna2 (heavy Monette) trumpet with a large shank.

@Trumpetb We can learn from those before us or attempt reinvent the wheel. I am very much for leveraging what those far smarter than me have already figured out! It saves time and lets us get to the music much, much faster.

@Trumpetb I will heartily disagree with the mouthpiece having anything to do with a G#. In fact, with good habits, our range does not change much with mouthpiece rather our sound and expression. My range does not change with a 7C, my Monette 1-1 or my 10 1/2E for the picc. The picc sounds AWFUL with the 1-1!
Changing mouthpieces in my world is NEVER part of "basic habits" for reliable playing! The fewer changes from day to day, the greater consistency. Once we have an "abundance" of consistency, we can venture into more palettes of color.

That all being said, I did recommend an overdose of very, very quiet longtones and lipslurs. To enhance those exercizes, take a 10 minute hot shower right before hand to get as relaxed as possible. To not use the tongue to get the tone started - just exhale into the tone or slur. Read the circle of breath first.