Best posts made by ROWUK

@Dr-GO Yes, I do browse the site from time to time. I do happen to be busy with many things (performances and preparing for a master class) that keep me away from casual computing.

As far as my posting at TrumpetMaster, that was an outlet for many concepts that I use when teaching and in my „industry“ job.

As far as grudges go, I am sorry that hindsight has not changed some peoples view of the world. Those that were banned had a „long series“ of behavior that was not „community“. In general, the admins posted in a protected area about those people and we were able to get other opinions before taking any action. Who actually banned who was not always clear as there was no flag visible to admins.

Wilmer died, may he rest in piece. All of the real professionals at TrumpetMaster had a certain degree of frustration with certain members who seemed to think that the supposed anonimity of the web gave them license to spew stupidity. I am convinced that in a real 1 on 1 lesson, the tone would have been completely different - far more respectful. I also often considered leaving TrumpetMaster but in the end, the real problem children (those only on transmit (TX) but not receive (RX)) were so few and the quantity of „respectful“ members gave me joy.

The essence of what I posted was just to take a step back, view the issue in its entirety and address the root cause instead of offering a patch for a symptom. This strategy works everywhere except in marriage (that being said, I have been with the same wife - my first - since 1978).

I still am not ready to make a commitment like I made to myself at TrumpetMaster. I am disappointed in the owner of TrumpetMaster for no warning or communication about closure. I certainly hope that the problem was not due to death or health issues.

Keep practicing!

Robin

It is important to recognize context when talking about "quality". A students instrument can have a very high quality, but the focus is on different things!
A beginner handles their instrument more by "chance" than by "experience". This means that a student instrument must be very durable to insure good mechanical properties even when not regularly maintained. The next mark of a high quality student instrument is how easily it "speaks". It needs to resonate easily with good tone. The player has to hear themselves easily. The valves will not have as tight of a tolerance to prevent them from hanging when not regularly brushing teeth before playing!

I will leave out "intermediate" instruments as I personally really see no musical sense to them. We can move from a Yamaha 2xxx or 3xxx directly to the 8xxx series for instance.

Professional instruments are not "soldered or designed better" than the student instruments. The improvements are in the time it takes to manipulate the materials for a playing response more closely connected to the players intentions. Instead of "durability", materials are used that allow a greater choice of playing colors, perhaps more ease of playing extremely soft and loud. The ability for "articulation" to be heard. A more controllable transition from clear to brilliant in a crescendo. In many cases, professional instruments have considerably more manual labor in their construction and that costs money.

I certainly agree that buying a beginner a pro horn normally does no one a favor. we start on a bicycle with training wheels, not carbon fiber rims. As our use case matures, we have opportunities to offer more colorful playing. A professional instrument can help us tap those talents by giving our ears/brain less gaps to fill in. When our vocabulary and quality of musical speech warrant it, the pro horn lets us shine through more.

I remember the Buzz/Phooey discussion at TrumpetMaster. It went nowhere fast.

The lips open and close like a valve at a rate related to the length of the trumpet. Each fingering has multiple notes based on the wavelength being played. The pedal note is one wavelength in the instrument. Low C is 2 wavelengths, G is 3 wavelengths, third space C is 4 wavelengths. This continues until our lips are no longer able to open and close - due to pressure, tension or lack of being supple.

I consider the buzz or alternate start of lip vibration to be an insignificant semantic argument with no redeeming value. We are talking about the same thing: ignition of the lips, initialization of the vibrating mode. Regardless if one calls it Phooey or a buzz, fact is, we blow air through the lips with a certain amount of lip tension and they resonate. This blow can be a relaxed exhale to a forceful expulsion of air. Articulation comes later when we modify the start to "speak". To speak a "phoo or foo" we would need our lower teeth on the upper lip prior to ignition. That certainly does not line up with most embouchures - especially considering that most have an overbite (upper teeth in front of lower teeth). Perhaps for players with an underbite (upper teeth behind the lower teeth) phoo would be what at least they "think" that they are doing. Considering that ignition needs freely vibrating lips, beyond the exhale, it really does not matter.

Some players have trouble with a free buzz. That is in most cases insignificant as we always play trumpet through a mouthpiece. Some players have trouble with a buzz through a mouthpiece. This is also in many cases insignificant as we rely on the resonances of the horn to modulate and stabilize pitch. Some like buzzing free, on the mouthpiece or with some resonance enhancing scheme (leadpipe or P.E.T.E). Good for them. It never helped my playing and I never taught it. I certainly would not criticize another teacher with good experience in buzzing however-as long as the player is getting a well balanced routine every day.

I found the arguments at TrumpetMaster regarding this to be little more than annoying as the real issues of getting the sound started are masked in senseless arguing.

If we can't get our semantics to line up, then beating a dead horse is not productive. Let us just talk about ignition instead.

As far as Yamahas claim to deeper cups being more mellow, science backs this up. The more cup volume, the more it acts like a low pass acoustical filter - reducing upper harmonics (compared to a cup with less volume). Less harmonics is a "darker/more mellow" sound.

The throat/backbore indeed also has great effect on sound and intonation as well as efficiency. That has nothing to do with Yamahas claims at the mentioned website.

We should never forget that the target audience determines the semantics. The casual reader really could care less and at least gets some valid pre-chewed recommendations. As they advance in perception and capability, they go elsewhere for mor detailed info.

@Kehaulani said in RIP Trumpet "Master":

If I'm not mistaking, the Circle of Breath is not rowuk's but is just another way of describing time honored techniques. No disrespect to rowuk, who's posts I always enjoyed and am grateful for lot of good advice, but what is unique about it to give it a distinct name and attribute the techniques to any one man. What did I miss?

I will assume that this statement was made because I only posted Circle of Breath at the now dead Trumpetmaster.

This is true. The concepts in the „Circle of Breath“ are age old, tried and true. They are a complete routine that I have been using since the 1970s. I do not know of anyone else that coined the phrase „Circle of Breath“ in this context so I will take credit for the name. Aligning the body first(Yoga, Feldenkrais, Alexander Technique), deep relaxed breath, playing longtones and slurs without an attack (Irons and others) are certainly not unique. I was always surprised that there are many (even accomplished) players that were never introduced to these basic concepts. This combination has been effective with every player that I have worked with. Just to outline the process:

1. Prepared body - straight/aligned to allow for a deep relaxed breath
2. exhale into long tones. We teach our lips to ignite on a wisp of air. The tongue tip is later used only to shape the articulation - not enable ignition of the lips
3. exhale into lipslurs

The circle is divided into two sections. At the bottom (6 o‘clock) we start our inhale. At 12 o‘clock we switch to exhale with all of the smoothness that a circle has. We exhale to 6 o‘clock and then the smooth transition to inhale starts. The time to inhale is not fixed.

We breathe through the nose as long as there is time enough. The air is moistened and adjusted in temperature.
If we do NOT have time, we breathe through the mouth.

Both methods of inhale must be practiced as well as their transition to exhale and back.

I use the Irons lip flexibilities book for the lipslur part.

Please feel free to move this post anywhere that would better serve the community.

Here is a method of creating a cheap but effective practice mute. I saw this mute at the international Natural Trumpet Workshop near Basel 2 weeks ago, so I am just sharing/documenting the idea.

In Germany, we have 2 "single portion" types of Coke bottles. .33 liters or for the more thirsty, .5 liters.

1. The first step is to get rid of the Coke (in my case Coke Zero)! Then wash out the bottle and let dry.
   
2. Now cut the top off as in the picture. Leave a little of the straight sides to provide a flat gluing surface:
   
3. Cut the bottom off as shown and discard the middle part:
   
4. Test the top and bottom parts for fit:
   
5. Glue both parts together with your favorite glue and use tape to secure during the drying process(make sure that the glue is suitable for PET):
   
6. Cut off the rim on the neck:
   
   
7. For the gasket between the mute and bell I used a bicycle grip
   
   
8. Drill a hole in the top a bit smaller than a drinking straw
   
9. for the 0.33 liter mute( middle) cut a straw to 3cm and glue it into the hole. For the 0.5 liter mute (right), a 2cm length works well
   

Longer straw lengths do not reduce volume as much but are more free blowing. Too short lengths reduce volume but are very stuffy/fuzzy

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus. Players buy custom horns because they CAN, not because they musically "have to".

There is a concept that the horn finds the player that I think is very true - but how much opportunity do we get to play those custom horns long enough before we pay? Being honest - essentially never. Has anyone checked out how many used custom horns are available - more than one would expect considering how special they are supposed to be.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player. Well, the truth is that all of those custom builders are giving you what they believe. You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing. Who has the ability to finesse the strengths of a player in the match of instrument. I can only think of one manufacturer that does and it only works like that on the second, third or fourth instrument.

So, my take is:

1. start safe with a "standard" Bach, Schilke, Yamaha if you are really serious. Then as time goes on and dues are paid, play everything that you can get your hands on. Visit players that have "interesting horns" and take your time.
2. if you get a second horn, play it exclusively for a while to get intimate with it
3. NEVER EVER believe that hardware will solve a software problem.

@barliman2001 said in Did something change?:

@ROWUK I agree with you that TB has not yet reached the kind of wealth of information that TM had... but then, many old TM members did not switch to TB when TM suddenly went dead.

I do not think that the problem is number of members. What bothers me is who posts why. I do not share the sense of humor of others and having an opinion just because we can is not always a good reason to torpedo threads. I am convinced that many think that they are funny and do not even realize the damage that they do. Sometimes just keeping a thread serious would be a great course of action. The NY Phil controversy is a good example. What torpedoed it had nothing to do with the charge or the aftermath. The second thread was simply embarassing.

Here are a couple of my wood projects:
Cherry

Oak

Baltic Birch Plywood (the horns are fibreglass)

@mike-ansberry This is a HUGE topic. I built my own, horn loudspeakers and low powered tube amplification.

@_mark_
I believe that you are not in any position to comment on anything except the symptoms that you notice. Trying to "analyse" the issue with no base knowledge just leads to useless hardware and embouchure changes.
Irregular teeth are no issue unless you learned to play on perfect teeth and then they got messed up in an accident (ask me how I know).
Moving the mouthpiece around is poison and where exactly it is, is certainly not a problem for getting started and playing up to G on top of the staff. My experience is that a proper daily routine promotes evolution - not revolution. Embouchure is fine motor activity, not building a six pack. Low impact repetitions! Lipslurs, longtones!

I am sure that multiphonics can be generated with a combination of lips and humming/singing or only with a weak embouchure. The mouthpiece in the "wrong place" would not be the cause of the double buzz, rather simple weak chops from lack of constructive practice.

@Kehaulani said in Does a large bore horn take more air?:

Science aside, , I wonder if instrument makers don't use the bore sizes as matters of classifications, within their own relative results. That horns aren't built with certain characteristics that fall within the bore-size classifications. And these characteristics apply to these given classifications regardless of how it's done?

Man, that's hard to express what I want to say! My point is that, within a given make, do the terms include certain characteristics that show the results and not necessarily the how.

So, if I buy a medium-bore Getzen and a large-bore Getzen, and a medium-bore Schilke and a large-bore Schilke, will the medium-bore horns be have certain characteristics that separate them from their large-bore counterparts?

This was certainly the way that they were built before the Xeno (with the exception of the Bach ML Vindabona). If you want to reduce the amount of „air“ required in a large bore Bach, remove the bell brace next to the tuning slide. Optionally, one could purchase the models with a reversed tuning slide. There the brace is closer to the valve block. More energy escapes through the bell, we hear ourselves better. We fool ourselves into believing that we need less air.

One more time: moving air is ONLY necessary to get the lips vibrating and lubricate them so that the standing wave can be maintained. We are NOT talking about the physical act of filling a trumpet up with air (it is already full) or about fluid dynamics blowing air through a specific pipe size.

If we want to measure how much air the trumpet needs (or better, how inefficient our embouchure is), hold long tones out. Write down when you run out of air. Repeat 25 times for statistical relevance and then try the next instrument.

In my world there is no "best" or even "beginners" mouthpiece. The Bach 7C is popular because it is not too big, not too little, it has a slightly sharper inner rim which in my opinion works well with chops that simply don't get enough practice. The critical part for beginners is NOT buying a bigger or smaller mouthpiece, rather getting them lessons with someone who cares enough to lead them to superior body and breath use. The faster that they let their playing ride on that flow of air, the faster they will have little dependency on mouthpiece to fill the job (sound great, play in tune, blend in school band).

Anything smaller than a 7C or bigger than a 3C, I consider to be a specialty mouthpiece and one should know themselves why they chose them. I only played for a year on a 7C. Then it was clear that I was on track for classical playing. I was playing cornet at the time and switched to a 1C with only a week or two of acclimation. That is only proof that my trumpet teacher did his job (and that I practiced a little more than required)!

I am sure the quiet is just temporary...

A contentious thread got locked down, a second one was started - but immediately reduced to a very low level bickering that had nothing to do with the original theme. That second thread was also locked down. I have no indication if any resolution was attempted by PM before the first or second lockdown. If I was new here, I would just leave. I stay because there are some old friends, unfortunately not because of the "content".

I continue to see reasons why I do not post much in any trumpet forums anymore. The threads get way off track, the clowns inject "junk", the value add for new members is teaching them to find content in a lot of wasted bits. Kind of like panning for gold...

My personal opinion is that we have lost NOTHING. The trumpet has been evolving/transforming about every 50 years and that the issue is more about what the contemporary view of what is acceptable. The end of the baroque era brought the requirements of chromatics that the natural trumpet could not fulfill. An additional handicap was classical modulation of the key signature that ruled out "mean tone" instruments. Initial attempts to get the trumpet chromatic sounded HORRIBLE, that resulted in it losing its "solo instrument" position in the orchestra and it wasn't until the late 1800s until further developments enabled the trumpeter to recapture melodic superiority. With the advent of recording technology, the requirement of security drove the creation of shorter instruments (in Bb, C, D and Eb). In Germany around 1900 the Bb trumpet common today was called the "high Bb" trumpet and the orchestral players using the deep F trumpets commented on the thin sound and lack of color of those Bb instruments. They lost the battle.
Rediscovery of Bach in the 1920s and 1930s drove development of smaller bore high D, Eb, F and G trumpets. Jazz drove additional changes to the Bb as did raising concert pitch to A=440. Charles Mager bringing french C trumpets to Boston was an additional change. After the second world war, the volume war started. Symphony orchestras (especially the brass) got larger bore instruments to get a "darker" sound that fitted in the orchestral fabric better. Unfortunately, that development increased the loudness, driving orchestral pitch up to the current A=442/443 to make the woodwinds brighter to compete. The string sections got strings that were also much louder.
Now, to get back to my original premise: trumpeters never had any need to ignore history or lose certain playing techniques. This was and still is their own choice. I listen to recent symphonic brass recordings of Gabrielli and wonder why nothing has improved since the 1960s when Philadelphia, Cleveland and Chicago created their legendary recordings. The reason is choice and ignorance. Ed Tarr and many others have made historical performance practice popular and accessible. Choosing to ignore what has been learned is my definition of ignorant. There is NO REASON FOR A MODERN PLAYER TO NOT ENCOMPASS THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF COMPOSERS FROM ANY ERA. Everything is freely available in our information age. I do not need a cornetto to play Gabrielli or a natural trumpet to play Bach. I do need to understand performance practice, phrasing, articulation and blend to serve the original intent however. It is there for the taking as long as we are not too proud to bend over and pick it up!
We can learn a lot from these pioneers.

Regardless how hard the times are, when it is over, people will look and see who "made the best" out of it and who just bitched. I can't speak for anyone else, but throughout the hard times in my life, staying in motion kept my sense of self worth and gave me skills to take advantage of the few opportunities left. Even during these tough times, I have a gig every weekend at old peoples homes. I have been playing since Easter. They are waiting for me - every Sunday. 4 locations, Sunday mornings. It is AWESOME!

Everybody teaches themselves to play! A teacher can motivate and focus on things good for the player, but at the end of the day, it is the student that has to untangle what they have been told, sort it and apply it.

In my world, the difference between a trumpet and cornet are 99% inside the head of the player. Cornet players have a more "intimate" approach. Great cornets allow you to play the 16 repeats that Clarke writes into his technical studies...

So, it is time for an update. I still have the "predentures" but the healing is far enough along that I get good fitting ones on Thursday. I am getting 30-60 minutes per day on the trumpet and my range is pretty good again (low f# to g an octave above the staff). The ill fitting dentures do slip from time to time and then I have to stop, push them back into place and start over. Double and triple tonguing do move the dentures around, so that is something that I only do in the middle register. Due to the Corona virus, all my gigs before Easter are cancelled. My trumpet teacher Heinz Zickler turns 100 next week and he is still kicking strong! We hope to be able to celebrate.

So, I guess the moral of the story is that we are what we repeatedly do. Jumping right back in was a good thing and not caring about what works, just getting started and sticking with it pay off. I still have a way to go with the fresh dentures coming, but if they fit better, that can only be good.

@vulgano-brother Intonation issues can have hundreds of reasons (like the parts simply not working together). In the modification of my Bach 229 CL, I found a lot of things.

1. the position of the bell braces "lock" the various slots in, The G and C in the staff seem to be most affected by the bell brace closest to the mouthpiece. Strong slots will make the instrument harder to play. I suggest trying to move that brace closer to the valve block (or just removing it for testing).
2. I use a heavier bottom valve cap on valve 3. That stabilized a lot of things
3. the receiver/mouthpiece gap did not change the intonation, but it did improve my feeling of being connected to the horn. My artisan had a mouthpiece shank shaped tool and he inserted and tapped with a hammer. I suspect that this compressed the brass slightly and let the mouthpiece be inserted more deeply and firmly.
4. Round tuning slides never worked for me. I tried ovate, D shapes and round ones with the D shape having the most "core", the "ovate" having the most colors, and round neither.
5. I also discovered that at least with the Bach, it was beneficial for intonation to have a slightly smaller bore where the bell meets the valve block. I accomplished this by making a tuning bell. The braces are permanently attached to the bell, and use adjustable slides on the leadpipe (like with adjustable 3rd slide finger rings)

Looking at your horn, I get the impression that the round tuning slide is cylindrical. That makes the leadpipe VERY short. On the short horns, I think that a tapered tuning slide could be beneficial. Even better would probably be to use a cornet as the base for a D trumpet. The Eb cornets that I have played generally have better intonation than the Eb trumpets.

I suspect that although the instrument is well put together, the R&D to balance everything out is missing. My Selmer Radial2° D/Eb only has the 4th space E and Eb way too low. I have had the horn since 1975 and just have never gotten around to doing anything with it. I will one day.