Best posts made by ROWUK

Playing on the resonant center is at least the most efficient way to play. The problem is that we trumpeters do not play „well tempered“! An E in a C Major, A Major or F#7 all are different frequencies. That means that we are always adjusting - some. We do not have regulation for the second valve, so have to accept some non centered playing. Many trumpets also have intonation issues.

Fortunately, fine trumpets do not have knife edge slots so we can manage and still get great tone. Monette talks a lot about pitch center and how we muscle our bodies to correct design faults and other bad habits. I have done a lot of the things that he recommends and can say that the journey involves more than the resonant center of the instrument. We have to reduce body tension in a serious way to really benefit from the resonant center.

Moisture! The speed of sound in moist air is different than in dry and in the microcosmos of the trumpet, that is a big deal. Intonation and targets change.
Granted, if one has minimal chops, other issues may mask the effect.
A „moist“ instrument is different than just running water through it first (although that does help some).

This is such a fundamental thing for me that I will not risk playing a gig on a dry trumpet (even although it is only dry for the first 10 minutes or so). When testing trumpets, the first 10 minutes do not count.

I will keep this thread alive as a personal diary. I am not "looking" for advice, criticism or praise but those that have been through this probably have some additional stuff. Maybe we can keep the content level high to make it easier in the future to find stuff?

Step one was to pull teeth, step two is repair the jaw and after that is done and solid, the final step will be implanting anchors to hold the dentures solidly in place. This could be a year of updates. I do not recommend letting anyone smash the trumpet into your face... The trumpet was repaired far more quickly!

Well, step one happened on Monday. All the teeth on my lower jaw were removed and I got "dentures". No sutures were necessary even although one wisdom tooth was impacted.

The instructions from the doc were to leave the dentures in for 24 hours (to keep the tongue out of the sockets). Robin was a good boy. Antibiotics and Novaminsulfon pain relievers kept everything manageable. Talking is a major challenge as the tongue does not know where to go. I slept sitting up - following instructions. Porridge for breakfast, soups for lunch and dinner.

Yesterday (Tuesday) was just a maintenance day, I tired quickly and there was still a bit of bleeding. Took my antibiotics and only a pain reliever before bed. Talking is still challenged. I was able to sleep laying down. Porridge with berries for breakfast, soups for lunch and dinner.

Today, Wednesday was actually pretty good. No pain relievers needed. Still get tired faster than usual. Have trouble with all of the "S" consonants needed in english and german - lots of sibillance - sounds like a really cheap stereo! Most of the wounds are closed and there was no bleeding worth mentioning - so I pulled out my C-trumpet and played 30 minutes of easy long tones and lip slurs. Even with the dentures, everything still worked. My tone had a bit of air - but always does when I take 2 days off. Still, the only food that I can eat is minced very fine so it is immediately "swallowable". I am rinsing with salt water a couple of times per day. The dentures are staying remarkably in place but are too high on the left side. Just waiting for the swelling to go down so that adjustment makes sense. Porridge for breakfast, soups for lunch and dinner. I tried cutting up some sausages for the soup, but was not successful the first time around - they were not small enough to swallow directly. A mincer solved the problem but the sausage taste was too diluted by the soup. Probably should not have tried.

The rest of the day I spent voicing some new horns for my stereo!

Got pretty close but counter tenors still sound like crap. Well, tomorrow is also a day and I'll see how my ears work.

My next dental appointment is Monday to get the dentures adjusted. After that, I go back to work. Next concert series in 3 weeks...

"Too many" is a term for ones opinion of someone elses collection.

There are performers that play various venues and need various horns, there are players with one venue but like to use various horns, there are collectors with a purpose and collectors without purpose. Then there are those with more money than common sense.

Add to that our own relationship and we see that number of horns is a very dynamic thing. What works this year can be different even after a month or two.

My collection (now 20 trumpets) has always been "right sized". I always had a performance reason (mostly for historically informed playing ensembles) to buy the next instrument, and today I am only missing one instrument - a rotary valved C-trumpet of my own design (not TARV). The covid pandemic got in the way of that one and I have learned some stuff in the mean time that changed the game.

My advice would be to FORGET VINTAGE TRUMPETS at your stage of development. Generally, we need a primary instrument that blends well, is in tune and has an easy blow. Vintage trumpets mostly sound different, might not even be optimally in tune (many were built for a lower pitch than common for today) and could even be an issue for getting into ensembles. In addition, old trumpets are exactly that - old and unless they have been fully restored, you may have mechanical issues.

You will do yourself a great favor by saving up and getting one of the more "standard" models: Yamaha 6xxx, B&S Challenger, Jupiter, Bach 180, Getzen 900. You will be rewarded with an instrument that will not be in the way later in your "career". The problem is that players get passed over because of their instruments not "blending" - without anyone telling them. I have a Bach C trumpet for ensembles that "prefer" that standard sound - even although it is not my favorite instrument. I would rather keep the gig instead of "proving a point" where only I lose.

That being said, once you have a solid every day "go to" instrument, additional horns can increase the available colors. If you are into jazz, there is more room for "individuality" after you have found your own voice

@administrator
My take on this is perhaps a bit unconventional, but I would insist that between those two horns, it does not matter. Regardless of which on you pick, there will always be something in the back of your mind questioning that choice.
That being said, I do not believe in a lot of this synergy blah. I do not believe that most musicians have a "well formed concept" that would guide them only to specific hardware (a claim that I make as a long time Monette trumpet owner). The musician that concentrates on the music, discovers whatever horn that they have in their hands in a special way. I do use my Monette C trumpet more than any other horn BUT I am not musically "limited" in the orchestra when I play my Selmer, Bach or any other horn. That does not mean that the Monette is not special to me, it only means that when I play, I have no dependencies, no questions in the back of my mind concerning hardware.

So, based on what you have posted, the Blackburn has appealed to you for many more years and the Yamaha discovery is new and has no specific "reasons" except hearsay. If you were my student, I would say play before you pay and would drive with you to wherever to make an informed decision with an extra set of ears that you could trust.

One thing is clear to me, I have many players that I admire and they cover just about every horn one could imagine. That means that the difference is them, not the hardware.

When our range stops at a specific note (especially if we can name it), our problem is simply too much pressure. We squeeze the lips off and they are not free to vibrate. Unfortunately, we are creatures of habit and with too much pressure comes a whole army of body use and breathing issues.

The success stories of turning range around are basically monitored by teachers sensitive to the subject. I use primarily Clarke and Irons for myself and my teaching.

I had an elderly tuba playing student that got back to playing before he could even speak again. Tongue/breath coordination helped a whole lot as did forming the embouchure. What helped most was playing in front of a mirror which offered at least optical feedback before the sense of „feel“ came back.

My recommendation for practice is to take notes and rejoice in accomplished „small steps“! This is my strategy for all students, but especially if we have a temporary or permanent handicap, we need all of the objectiveness that we can find.

Most of the time, the pimps simply demonstrate that the owner had no process for picking the right horn in the first place. If they did, generally they can find one that does what its supposed to without any pimp. For instance, they buy a Bach 180 model, but do not like that much "core", so they unbalance the design with a pimp, normally making something worse for every thing that is viewed as "positive".

I can't count how many Bach owners drilled out the throat of their mouthpiece to "fix" something that was not broken - or to compensate for something that was not right instead of fixing it.

Moderation is in fact a double edged sword. On the one side, posting shows us the character of the poster - a measure by which we can decide what is worth reading. Postings also generate context that gets lost when things disappear. I agree that the best way is to "edit" the offense, clearly label the edit with the name of who edited and why. Deleting complete posts is on occasion necessary because of the content.

My experience at TrumpetMaster with PMing offenders was not generally positive (exceptions proving the rule). For someone with no sense of what freedom of speech costs, you cannot teach them this online. Often it is better to part ways.

After TrumpetMaster went down (with no warning or first hand information to this date), I reviewed my online activity and decided that I would not jump in to any new forum with the same "attitude". Some here surely welcome this. To be honest, I have found no trumpet forum where I "take home" as much as I invest. There are other forums where we stretch the envelope however. The mix of users is different, with less casual approaches to the technology. This is where my energy is going these days. Here, I am very content to browse and occasionally post - without repeating myself as much as I did at TrumpetMaster. I also seem not to be the focus of hate anymore (regardless of the underlying reasons).

In this respect, I too am a bit frustrated, but that is my problem where the trumpet is concerned. I am less interested in entertainment and more interested in what motivates players to take that "next step".

Fortunately, I have no site issues with MacOS and Safari. I am happy that someone decided to run and offer the TMers a new home.

There are no "best" valves. Each type has its advantage and disadvantages. For a student horn, bulletproof stainless valves have a strong selling point. To a professional player that takes meticulous care in oiling and cleaning, no technology is better or worse.

As far as design goes, the Selmer Radial 2° valve block had definite ergonomic advantages. I can't say that they are faster than Bach, Getzen, Monette or Schilke valves however.

Congratulations!

I have found that range becomes useful when we can integrate it into our "style". We need to know when the leading edge of "higher notes" must be round and fluffy or razor sharp. In the non rehearsal times, play along with any recordings that you have. An acid test would be to use headphones to hear the band and record JUST your playing. Afterwards the warts become very obvious when the band sound does not mask.

Have fun, stay healthy!

@barliman2001 My take is that the body talks to us - and we make decisions based on what we heard and understood. Soft, slow, easy repetitions, long tones without articulation in the beginning - just exhale into the horn and let come what comes. Do this for a couple of days. If your body does not complain, add articulation. Avoid anything with compression.

I have been watching this thread for a while and was not sure that I even wanted to get involved...

There is a strong tendency to "want to be right" which is OK, but I would ask if the original question was even the correct one. More on this later.

If we talk about cleaning instruments, surely alcohol - in whatever form is just a small piece of the picture. So, I think that this thread has identified the organic contaminants, but is that all that we are after? If Alcohol does not "remove" the contaminants, could it possibly decrease our chances of getting sick with a quick disinfect?

And here is my bitch with this thread - we have all the expert opinions but have ignored the fact that alcohol is NOT a cleaning agent of choice for the home. Water, a surfactant and some brushes are the primary choice to CLEAN the instruments - get the organic material that gunks up the valves, spit valves, promotes corrosion and would need disinfecting in the first place. Once the instruments are clean, they play best. Alcohol can be used as a disinfecting agent AFTER cleaning. Just like corona, or any surgical activity, we ALWAYS scrub first, THEN disinfect.

Now, we could argue that excessive disinfecting actually is a bigger problem than cure in many ways. Our immune system is capable of developing when exposed to small amounts of "contaminants". Kids that play in the mud seem to be healthier than the ones "protected" by overzealous parents. Could we not have a similar situation with the trumpet?

So, now we have enough information to replace "theory" with practical recommendations:

Many of us use excessive oil to "flush" aerosols and contaminants out of the valve block - instead of cleaning. I generally oil once a week. Mouthpiece and leadpipe/tuning slide get CLEANING with water, dishwashing liquid and a brush at least once a week - perhaps more often if we gig A LOT. The whole horn gets a bath/scrub once a month/quarter/year depending on how much it gets played. That is probably enough maintenance for any healthy trumpeter.

I only use alcohol when someone is trying my mouthpieces or I am in a store trying new mouthpieces out. I have NEVER disinfected my trumpet. If I wipe down the outside on my gold plated instruments, glass cleaner seems to be a really good thing.

So, I think that we have to pick our words carefully, otherwise we are just arguing about NOTHING.

Very nice!

@stumac I think that most are dead because the market did not want what they were making - for the price that they were asking. Value is an interesting concept and it is still exists today. When businesses expand, they take a risk. When businesses have more overhead than turnover, they have a problem.

I admire the Chinese for their granular production. The same production line can build a $50 or a $1000 trumpet. The quality is determined by the person placing the order not the artisan. I have played prototypes of both. The knowledgable reseller does not HAVE to screw their customer.

On another side, I bought a 3d printer and have been printing mouthpieces. They are WAY TOO GOOD. I am not selling or taking orders, I am learning and offering my students the possibility to play before they pay. They can evaluate what the difference between an A, B, C, D, E cup is as well as backbores and rim shapes. Then they buy what works. There has not been much R&D on natural trumpet mouthpieces - just copies made of historical ones without knowledge if they were „high performance“ back then. For less than $1, I can experiment until I am happy. Then the 3d model can be made in silver, brass, copper or any printable plastic. Will this change the mouthpiece market - I certainly believe so. Print on demand could be a great advantage to a pro shop. No appreciable inventory. The printers with suitable resolution are available. Kelly mouthpiece anyone?

Pedal tones are the fundamental tones based on the length of the trumpet. They correspond to 1 wavelength. The next tone (2 wavelengths) in the partial series is an octave higher - on an open trumpet, low C. 3 wavelengths corresponds to a second line "g". 4 wavelengths is third space C., 5 is E, 6 is g on top of the staff, 7 is Bb above the staff and 8 wavelengths are C above the staff. Notice that every doubling of the wavelength is an octave higher for C 1, 2, 4 and 8. For G 3 and 6.

Perfect pitch is a curse not a blessing. If you have perfect pitch A=440, what happens when the orchestra tunes to 441, 442, 445? What happens when playing outdoors and the pitch drops to A=438, 435? What about if you are playing in any historical pitch (A=415, 420/430).

I am certainly NOT for Botox. If a proper doctor has looked at you and there have been ultrasound/CRT/MRT whatever pictures taken to insure that the muscle tissue is properly attached at both sides, I would recommend calling Dave Monette. No, not for a new mouthpiece or trumpet, rather for his advice as a CST/Feldenkrais/yoga practitioner. We screw our bodies up in thousands of small steps and I believe the path back (barring serious physical damage) is also with small steps. I do not believe that "brute force" massages are the solution, although they can sometimes result in temporary relief.
I have helped people back to playing and speaking after strokes, and after an accident that has now resulted in full dentures for me, have also found my way back.
The small steps approach may sound esoteric, but I assure you, it is not.

@djeffers78 Standard “problem” thread. What does best mean? Good enough? What definition of value do we declare? Resale value, acceptance by teachers, blend with other horns, bling factor for the student? The list goes on and on.

My point is that the term “BEST” is about the WORST description that there is. Because Monette is not Bach or Yamaha, would that be an off brand?

Are we looking in this thread for good value at a lowest price or innovation at any price? Are we considering dealer support? Financing possibilities?

I am actually allergic the the word “best” because it simply is not a factor, rather an opinion that is generally worthless.

Now, if we are looking for good deals for students, we need to be very clear about the advantages and disadvantages IF that student is going to music school. If we are considering vintage instruments, there may be a coolness factor but a big disadvantage in ensemble playing. Vintage instruments may need serious TLC to get the valves tight and slides working smoothly.

My students generally start with a Yamaha 3xxx or 4xxx model. Resale is great if they end up in sports programs. Performance makes life easy. Playing characteristics are sensational. Service in Germany is top notch - from the dealers AND Yamaha.