@Dr-GO Yes, I do browse the site from time to time. I do happen to be busy with many things (performances and preparing for a master class) that keep me away from casual computing.

As far as my posting at TrumpetMaster, that was an outlet for many concepts that I use when teaching and in my „industry“ job.

As far as grudges go, I am sorry that hindsight has not changed some peoples view of the world. Those that were banned had a „long series“ of behavior that was not „community“. In general, the admins posted in a protected area about those people and we were able to get other opinions before taking any action. Who actually banned who was not always clear as there was no flag visible to admins.

Wilmer died, may he rest in piece. All of the real professionals at TrumpetMaster had a certain degree of frustration with certain members who seemed to think that the supposed anonimity of the web gave them license to spew stupidity. I am convinced that in a real 1 on 1 lesson, the tone would have been completely different - far more respectful. I also often considered leaving TrumpetMaster but in the end, the real problem children (those only on transmit (TX) but not receive (RX)) were so few and the quantity of „respectful“ members gave me joy.

The essence of what I posted was just to take a step back, view the issue in its entirety and address the root cause instead of offering a patch for a symptom. This strategy works everywhere except in marriage (that being said, I have been with the same wife - my first - since 1978).

I still am not ready to make a commitment like I made to myself at TrumpetMaster. I am disappointed in the owner of TrumpetMaster for no warning or communication about closure. I certainly hope that the problem was not due to death or health issues.

Keep practicing!

Robin

It is important to recognize context when talking about "quality". A students instrument can have a very high quality, but the focus is on different things!
A beginner handles their instrument more by "chance" than by "experience". This means that a student instrument must be very durable to insure good mechanical properties even when not regularly maintained. The next mark of a high quality student instrument is how easily it "speaks". It needs to resonate easily with good tone. The player has to hear themselves easily. The valves will not have as tight of a tolerance to prevent them from hanging when not regularly brushing teeth before playing!

I will leave out "intermediate" instruments as I personally really see no musical sense to them. We can move from a Yamaha 2xxx or 3xxx directly to the 8xxx series for instance.

Professional instruments are not "soldered or designed better" than the student instruments. The improvements are in the time it takes to manipulate the materials for a playing response more closely connected to the players intentions. Instead of "durability", materials are used that allow a greater choice of playing colors, perhaps more ease of playing extremely soft and loud. The ability for "articulation" to be heard. A more controllable transition from clear to brilliant in a crescendo. In many cases, professional instruments have considerably more manual labor in their construction and that costs money.

I certainly agree that buying a beginner a pro horn normally does no one a favor. we start on a bicycle with training wheels, not carbon fiber rims. As our use case matures, we have opportunities to offer more colorful playing. A professional instrument can help us tap those talents by giving our ears/brain less gaps to fill in. When our vocabulary and quality of musical speech warrant it, the pro horn lets us shine through more.

I remember the Buzz/Phooey discussion at TrumpetMaster. It went nowhere fast.

The lips open and close like a valve at a rate related to the length of the trumpet. Each fingering has multiple notes based on the wavelength being played. The pedal note is one wavelength in the instrument. Low C is 2 wavelengths, G is 3 wavelengths, third space C is 4 wavelengths. This continues until our lips are no longer able to open and close - due to pressure, tension or lack of being supple.

I consider the buzz or alternate start of lip vibration to be an insignificant semantic argument with no redeeming value. We are talking about the same thing: ignition of the lips, initialization of the vibrating mode. Regardless if one calls it Phooey or a buzz, fact is, we blow air through the lips with a certain amount of lip tension and they resonate. This blow can be a relaxed exhale to a forceful expulsion of air. Articulation comes later when we modify the start to "speak". To speak a "phoo or foo" we would need our lower teeth on the upper lip prior to ignition. That certainly does not line up with most embouchures - especially considering that most have an overbite (upper teeth in front of lower teeth). Perhaps for players with an underbite (upper teeth behind the lower teeth) phoo would be what at least they "think" that they are doing. Considering that ignition needs freely vibrating lips, beyond the exhale, it really does not matter.

Some players have trouble with a free buzz. That is in most cases insignificant as we always play trumpet through a mouthpiece. Some players have trouble with a buzz through a mouthpiece. This is also in many cases insignificant as we rely on the resonances of the horn to modulate and stabilize pitch. Some like buzzing free, on the mouthpiece or with some resonance enhancing scheme (leadpipe or P.E.T.E). Good for them. It never helped my playing and I never taught it. I certainly would not criticize another teacher with good experience in buzzing however-as long as the player is getting a well balanced routine every day.

I found the arguments at TrumpetMaster regarding this to be little more than annoying as the real issues of getting the sound started are masked in senseless arguing.

If we can't get our semantics to line up, then beating a dead horse is not productive. Let us just talk about ignition instead.

As far as Yamahas claim to deeper cups being more mellow, science backs this up. The more cup volume, the more it acts like a low pass acoustical filter - reducing upper harmonics (compared to a cup with less volume). Less harmonics is a "darker/more mellow" sound.

The throat/backbore indeed also has great effect on sound and intonation as well as efficiency. That has nothing to do with Yamahas claims at the mentioned website.

We should never forget that the target audience determines the semantics. The casual reader really could care less and at least gets some valid pre-chewed recommendations. As they advance in perception and capability, they go elsewhere for mor detailed info.

@Kehaulani said in RIP Trumpet "Master":

If I'm not mistaking, the Circle of Breath is not rowuk's but is just another way of describing time honored techniques. No disrespect to rowuk, who's posts I always enjoyed and am grateful for lot of good advice, but what is unique about it to give it a distinct name and attribute the techniques to any one man. What did I miss?

I will assume that this statement was made because I only posted Circle of Breath at the now dead Trumpetmaster.

This is true. The concepts in the „Circle of Breath“ are age old, tried and true. They are a complete routine that I have been using since the 1970s. I do not know of anyone else that coined the phrase „Circle of Breath“ in this context so I will take credit for the name. Aligning the body first(Yoga, Feldenkrais, Alexander Technique), deep relaxed breath, playing longtones and slurs without an attack (Irons and others) are certainly not unique. I was always surprised that there are many (even accomplished) players that were never introduced to these basic concepts. This combination has been effective with every player that I have worked with. Just to outline the process:

1. Prepared body - straight/aligned to allow for a deep relaxed breath
2. exhale into long tones. We teach our lips to ignite on a wisp of air. The tongue tip is later used only to shape the articulation - not enable ignition of the lips
3. exhale into lipslurs

The circle is divided into two sections. At the bottom (6 o‘clock) we start our inhale. At 12 o‘clock we switch to exhale with all of the smoothness that a circle has. We exhale to 6 o‘clock and then the smooth transition to inhale starts. The time to inhale is not fixed.

We breathe through the nose as long as there is time enough. The air is moistened and adjusted in temperature.
If we do NOT have time, we breathe through the mouth.

Both methods of inhale must be practiced as well as their transition to exhale and back.

I use the Irons lip flexibilities book for the lipslur part.

Please feel free to move this post anywhere that would better serve the community.

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus. Players buy custom horns because they CAN, not because they musically "have to".

There is a concept that the horn finds the player that I think is very true - but how much opportunity do we get to play those custom horns long enough before we pay? Being honest - essentially never. Has anyone checked out how many used custom horns are available - more than one would expect considering how special they are supposed to be.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player. Well, the truth is that all of those custom builders are giving you what they believe. You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing. Who has the ability to finesse the strengths of a player in the match of instrument. I can only think of one manufacturer that does and it only works like that on the second, third or fourth instrument.

So, my take is:

1. start safe with a "standard" Bach, Schilke, Yamaha if you are really serious. Then as time goes on and dues are paid, play everything that you can get your hands on. Visit players that have "interesting horns" and take your time.
2. if you get a second horn, play it exclusively for a while to get intimate with it
3. NEVER EVER believe that hardware will solve a software problem.

Here is a method of creating a cheap but effective practice mute. I saw this mute at the international Natural Trumpet Workshop near Basel 2 weeks ago, so I am just sharing/documenting the idea.

In Germany, we have 2 "single portion" types of Coke bottles. .33 liters or for the more thirsty, .5 liters.

1. The first step is to get rid of the Coke (in my case Coke Zero)! Then wash out the bottle and let dry.
   
2. Now cut the top off as in the picture. Leave a little of the straight sides to provide a flat gluing surface:
   
3. Cut the bottom off as shown and discard the middle part:
   
4. Test the top and bottom parts for fit:
   
5. Glue both parts together with your favorite glue and use tape to secure during the drying process(make sure that the glue is suitable for PET):
   
6. Cut off the rim on the neck:
   
   
7. For the gasket between the mute and bell I used a bicycle grip
   
   
8. Drill a hole in the top a bit smaller than a drinking straw
   
9. for the 0.33 liter mute( middle) cut a straw to 3cm and glue it into the hole. For the 0.5 liter mute (right), a 2cm length works well
   

Longer straw lengths do not reduce volume as much but are more free blowing. Too short lengths reduce volume but are very stuffy/fuzzy

@barliman2001 said in Did something change?:

@ROWUK I agree with you that TB has not yet reached the kind of wealth of information that TM had... but then, many old TM members did not switch to TB when TM suddenly went dead.

I do not think that the problem is number of members. What bothers me is who posts why. I do not share the sense of humor of others and having an opinion just because we can is not always a good reason to torpedo threads. I am convinced that many think that they are funny and do not even realize the damage that they do. Sometimes just keeping a thread serious would be a great course of action. The NY Phil controversy is a good example. What torpedoed it had nothing to do with the charge or the aftermath. The second thread was simply embarassing.

Here are a couple of my wood projects:
Cherry

Oak

Baltic Birch Plywood (the horns are fibreglass)

@mike-ansberry This is a HUGE topic. I built my own, horn loudspeakers and low powered tube amplification.

@Kehaulani said in Does a large bore horn take more air?:

Science aside, , I wonder if instrument makers don't use the bore sizes as matters of classifications, within their own relative results. That horns aren't built with certain characteristics that fall within the bore-size classifications. And these characteristics apply to these given classifications regardless of how it's done?

Man, that's hard to express what I want to say! My point is that, within a given make, do the terms include certain characteristics that show the results and not necessarily the how.

So, if I buy a medium-bore Getzen and a large-bore Getzen, and a medium-bore Schilke and a large-bore Schilke, will the medium-bore horns be have certain characteristics that separate them from their large-bore counterparts?

This was certainly the way that they were built before the Xeno (with the exception of the Bach ML Vindabona). If you want to reduce the amount of „air“ required in a large bore Bach, remove the bell brace next to the tuning slide. Optionally, one could purchase the models with a reversed tuning slide. There the brace is closer to the valve block. More energy escapes through the bell, we hear ourselves better. We fool ourselves into believing that we need less air.

One more time: moving air is ONLY necessary to get the lips vibrating and lubricate them so that the standing wave can be maintained. We are NOT talking about the physical act of filling a trumpet up with air (it is already full) or about fluid dynamics blowing air through a specific pipe size.

If we want to measure how much air the trumpet needs (or better, how inefficient our embouchure is), hold long tones out. Write down when you run out of air. Repeat 25 times for statistical relevance and then try the next instrument.

@flugler Quoting us a price from Japan is very unrealistic as the market there is primarily for collectors - not players. Everywhere else in the world, people are looking for deals. 6 grand+ gets me a Monette or a Martin - both certainly in a different league than the Calicchio. Maybe I have not been paying attention here at TrumpetBoards, but I do not know of anyone here in that "more money than common sense" market.
The price is fine for Japan. That type of money here would be banking on the price going up. I do not see that happening. Calicchios reputation at the time was value for the price and Dominics service.

By the way, this is the wrong place for your post. It belongs in the classifieds section.

We have several concepts for pitch. They all need a certain degree of familiarity before we can be "successful".

Playing alone with or without a tuning device is dangerous as we do not play "well tempered". The tuning device is to get our concert Bb "in the ball park". If we play to all the other notes, they will never sound right.

Our performing pitch is always relevant to something else - it can be the last memory, or it can be another instrument or recording.

In addition, if we are playing with serious upper body tension, the pitch will sound sharp even although a tuning device would measure just fine. If we do not have enough tension, the sound is dull and it sounds flat although it may measure OK.

If you are not taking regular lessons, then just play along with recorded music. That can be a a CD with concert band music or marches. It can be church hymns or jazz standards. The important part is that you rediscover having your pitch relative to things around you (accompaniment) as well as playing enough to get a good resonant sound throughout the registers that CAN sound in tune.

Your actual problem is the ear/brain not talking to the body/lungs/embouchure, or the body/lungs/embouchure not reacting predictably to the signals coming from the brain. If you had these skills at one time in your life, then a lot of the work is already done. Simply play enough and those skills will move to the short term memory and become more automatic.

@Trumpetsplus I remember you bringing the ascending C when you visited. Wonderful horn!

@annapants Mike Thompson has very attractive conditions for selling used instruments. I know him and he is the real thing!

Thompson Music Co.
14220 Fort St. Ste. 103, Omaha, NE 68164 (402) 289-9699

When people that we love and admire die, it gives us the opportunity to figure out what they really meant to us. In many cases, towards the end, we see them less and do not "live" the deterioration. The lasting personal memory is of a person getting stuff done.

As we are the sum of all influences in life, we have a lot to be thankful for - but only limited means to "pay back" the debt. Honor the giants on whose shoulders you stand - each in her/his own way. We do not need huge public displays although if the opportunity arises, take it with humility and reverence.

I see death as the release from the earthly state, going to a place with no pain and no need to answer any more questions or solve problems. Our influence can (and should) long extend after death.

4 valved trumpets are NOT an afterthought. The 4th valve is generally a purpose built device. It can be permanently attached to the valve block or integrated into the tuning slide.

We have 4th valves for playing ¼ tones - found in middle east and experimental music.

There are ½ tone valves for easily switching a Bb trumpet to A. These are found mostly on vintage instruments built between 1900 and 1920.

There are also whole tone 4th valves to extend the range of a modern orchestral C trumpet to low E which allows playing the handful of very low Bb parts.

Then there are 4th valves that lower the pitch by a 4th to extend the chromatic range to pedal C. These can often be found on high pitched trumpets like in high G, high A and high Bb. In this case, they extend the range to allow playing the lowest notes for typical baroque music.

One further use of a 4th valve is to allow switching between 2 bells (Bobby Shew Shew horn).

My thoughts are if you are not playing specialty music, the 4th valve is useless and can actually make the instrument harder to play.

@mediocreplayer The analysis of a sticky valve is to first check cleanliness (dirt/damage/distortion - thank you Ivan) and proper lubrication, then comes the interface finger position to valve stroke. Proper lubrication means BONE DRY VALVES AND CASINGS, then oil to create isolation between them. Oil floats on water so drying first is a real part of oiling.
Sometimes we can hone the valves (with a loss of compression) until they work or push the player to change hand position and play with the tips of their fingers.

I have only had issues with used instruments broken in by someone else.

@Anthony-Lenzo

1. Oil floats on water. That makes oiling after playing useless because the bore is covered with condensation. The only oiling that reduces wear is the oiling that prevents two pieces of metal from touching one another.
2. petroleum based oils evaporate mostly within 24 hours making a daily oiling sensible
3. synthetic oils do not evaporate like petroleum based ones, so we really do not need to oil daily. That being said: if we do not brush our teeth really well before playing, the aerosols in our breath will collect and turn the oil to sludge over time. Just adding oil on top of that just makes the sludge thinner.

For valves, I swab the casing every other day and wipe down the valves then when everything is bone dry, reoil. The oil is attached to all moving surfaces and protection is best.

Depending on the make, age and provenance of the horn, a valve job can transform the instrument to even better than new.

@barliman2001 That is why we have alternate fingerings...

@USAFBugler Yes, some older trumpets out of the US were built around A=440 and the current A=442 or 443 just makes life hard to impossible. The solution is to cut the instrument down - preferably at the stem of the bell. Then it could end up better than ever (because you can use it). What usually does not work is shortening it at the tuning slide or mouthpiece.

I have a Selmer Radial 2° D/Eb built in the early 1970s and after taking a bit off of the bell stem to raise the tuning pitch, it is much, much better than before.