Best posts made by ROWUK

@_mark_
It is (maybe not) funny, but I have NEVER had a beginner walk away from the first lesson with what you describe.
"Too much" pressure is NOT an issue for the first weeks/months of playing and if your face is capable of forming the letter "M" without nervous twitches, you are only a moderate breath away from a stable first note.
That first note can be practiced with just buzzing the lips, buzzing with the mouthpiece or buzzing with the mouthpiece and horn. We do not need to squeeze the lips together with high pressure, the normal letter "M" is enough for the first open tones - normally open G and low C. Resist the urge to mess around with the valves until your "M"-bouchure is steady.
The trumpet actually only needs a wisp of air to ignite the tone. A LOT of players exercise WAY TOO MUCH EFFORT in basic tone production. Do not try to hyperventilate after reading how much "air" the so called experts pump through the horn. Do not try and form a six pack in your face.
Trumpet playing is thousands of very low impact repetitions. There are no short cuts.
Slow down, find someone who plays reasonably well from a local band or school and get the beginnings in a decent direction.

@walter-sk Microns separate easy and hard removal. It is still a simple job for a tech but "all your strength" could make the repair very costly.
I have had students with this problem. It can happen if one lays the trumpet down with the 2nd slide underneath. It takes a small hit (no dent) and it is microns out...

@furcifer I am not sure that Bach Snob is really a valid generalization. Most of the trumpeters that I know and have known, play what they play and certainly NEVER picked their horn for snobbish reasons. There is a reason that Bach is popular - it simply sounds good. Great core and blend. Easy to play (well most of the Bb are) and their reputation is built on that sound. There was a time when almost nothing else was found in the major symphony orchestras. Players that trained the current generation of top teachers - many of which have switched to Yamaha. Fast forward 30 years and we now see that Yamaha in fact has taken the lead - in student, intermediate and pro trumpets. Schilke has jumped on the same bandwagon - with the HD model. The B&S Challenger series also shares a similar core sound.

My point was that a vintage trumpet is not necessarily a good choice for someone in high school and that a generally accepted "standard" type instrument is a better base instrument. Certainly Bach has withstood the test of time (including hard times) - can we say that about the defunct Martin corporation? What happened to Holton, Buescher, Conn and Olds? Where are Selmer Trumpets today? They did not die because of snobbery.

I am a professional in Europe where Bach is generally not the instrument of choice. My main piston axe is a Monette Raja C trumpet, my second most used piston axe is a Bach C trumpet that I bought in 1975. I play far more rotary and valveless instruments however. Still, in the best interest of a student, we do need to consider things, even if we ourselves have the freedom to do other things.

Håkan is trying to unlock her ears and brain. She is a well accomplished technical player BUT she is not listening to the result of her playing in the room. She is playing "safe" inside her head. It will take time to develop these additional talents. She shows great promise!

@mike-ansberry I am not sure that the Getzen will ever be one of those "rare finds" that command top dollar. If the hook is professionally attached, all traces can be removed during a restoration. I would go for it!

Staying in shape is a process. Currently we are replacing certain opportunities with others and this can affect our playing in a serious way.
When we play in large rooms (bandroom or concert venues), what reaches our ears is considerably different than playing with a mute or in a small practiceroom/bedroom.

We need to find larger spaces to practice in. That promotes tone and the servo loop Player/horn->room->ears/brain. We are creatures of habit. Improve our habits and our playing becomes more stable. Even playing outdoors is a BIG help s tone has an opportunity to develop.

@furcifer we do not, or did not disagree.
As far as getting market share, there are a lot of factors involved - many having nothing to do with quality.
I still maintain that a "vintage" trumpet is not necessarily a good choice for someone in high school - unless someone can responsibly confirm intonation, valve condition and playability beforehand.

My first instrument was a 1911 Holton Long Cornet that I inherited from my grandfather in the late '60s. He used spit and water instead of valve oil and the condition of the valves certainly were a "problem". I was lucky and had a trumpet playing music teacher that worked with my parents to get me another horn in excellent playing condition. It was like pulling the cork out! Now 50+ years later, I am still performing professionally (with other horns). With the playing handicap of the old horn, who knows what I would be doing today.

@Trumpetb My point is that we do not NEED TO PERFORM WITH the original instruments to get the original intentions of the composer. For some people, myself included, learning and performing with them does however, offer additional palettes of color to use.
As the trumpet through its history has changed about every 50 years, I would place most of the "blame" for lost technique and tone clearly with the trumpeters. Even in the Jazz genre, how many players just noodle around without really embracing the various periods in jazz? How many can play a convincing Bix or Dizzy chorus? What about a whole evening of 1920s jazz (or 1950s for that matter). Sure, we may hear some licks that apply, but a whole evening? The same is true with cornetto choruses called diminuation. It is not a hard concept, the patterns developed over time and also applied to a certain extent to the baroque period.
The ignorance that is displayed - even by some (if not many) professionals, is simply laziness not lack of sources, information or role models. It certainly is not hardware based. There are even courses to build your own cornetto or natural trumpet.
I would not consider anything lost rather ignored.

The change in timbre is based on the cylindrical to tapered proportions as well as the specific partial being played.
Many modern piston trumpets have been homogenised for a generally even tone. Rotary trumpets are not so "homogenised" and even a change in register creates a change in tone. Composers like Bruckner, Mahler, Strauss and Wagner even composed for the unhomogenised state.

Arban only speaks about the Cornet á piston or simply "piston". I have never seen any reference tying Arban to a rotary valved anything. It also looks like someone else besides the bell engraver engraved the name into the bell.
I would be interested to see what proof Josh got of the provenance of this instrument.

All trumpets have "multiple" bores. The leadpipe "average" is a start. Then the valve cluster, and then the bore up until the bell flare starts.
A good example of Dual Bore would be every trumpet with a reverse tuning slide.

I believe that the dual bore was simply a further marketing term for technology that makes a trumpet ever more cornet-like. Real trumpets in the traditional sense were cylindrical except for the bell and mouthpiece. Over 60% of the bore is cylindrical in this case.
The first valved trumpets were the longer natural instruments with valves. As the instruments got shorter (solely for the purpose of more accuracy - never because of tone), the proportion of tapered to cylindrical bore shifted with less than 50% and "modern C trumpets" are lucky if they are ⅓ cylindrical - now they are more members of the horn family.
So, the King dual-bore does not make large bore easier playing or medium bore bigger sounding. It is a marketing term that has not survived the test of time. If you find a good one, it is simply another old trumpet worth playing.

I think that everyone that makes "improvisation" a requirement to be a great trumpeter does not understand what "greatness" truly is!

There are many "strengths" that qualify for greatness. I do not think that Bud Herseth was a lesser trumpeter just because he did not perform combo gigs. I do not think that Miles is greater just because he improvises.

Greatness in my world comes from exceptional performance, preferably over a long time. Exceptional performance very much can be "only" being the solo trumpet in a symphony orchestra - a leader musically and dynamically (Bud Herseth, Bill Vacchiano as two examples). Exceptional performance can also be what Maynard did - keeping a live band afloat in the most difficult of times and inspiring generations of musicians that played in his band. Exceptional performance can be Pops - creating the base for many musical things taken for granted today. Exceptional performance can be Bachs own Gottfried Reiche - who inspired Bach to create some of the most awesome trumpet parts ever written.

I very much do agree that there are many fine but mediocre performances due to the lack of understanding the genre. The Metropolitan Opera Orchestra recently released a Gabrieli recording that is an example of such playing. Great players missing the point - and proving that there are modern groups of musicians that offer the same or less than the Philadelphia/Cleveland/Chicago recording from the 1960s.

I can very much appreciate what "non improvisors" have to make them great. I can also appreciate those dedicated to period style and performance practices (in Jazz, Commercial or classical genres). I do not understand the need to limit the term "great" to artificial requirements submitted by those not anywhere near greatness.

@JWM The #1 reason for range just stopping at a specific note is too much damn pressure.

A buzz is nothing more than the lips opening and closing at a certain frequency. If we apply large amounts of arm pressure to the embouchure, we need far more air pressure to blow the lips apart. That is not a very responsive system!

In my view, the easiest way to break this habit is to turn the testosterone down. Play ONLY very, very softly for a couple of weeks and focus on the air doing the work. Overdose on pianissimo lipslurs and long tones. Practice to get the sound to start on a wisp of air.

Generally, it takes only a lesson or two to get students doing this reliably. The biggest problem with a social media recommendation is that body use can not be controlled. If someones body is twisted into knots, a big relaxed breath is a challenging thing. Exhaling also becomes a real chore.

My full view is in several posts that I made called "the circle of breath". This is a collection of things from many disciplines. Google it and if there is something unclear, just ask.

@JorgePD said in Did anyone made a copy of "The Circle of Breath":

Would working on the circle of breath be part of your warm up?

It is the core of everything that I do. If I have time for a warmup, for sure. If not, some other time of the day. We need to stay connected to the needs of our bodies and attitudes.

@Trumpetb I understand you actually quite well. I also disagree with a lot that you post - because it all seems so random and not based on real experience. It is also very confusing considering that we have readers that can not tell the difference.
I disagree with "zeroing in" between mouthpiece and each horn - unless the mouthpiece has the same rim and cup and only minor shank work is necessary. Before my Monette period, I used the same mouthpiece on all my trumpets except for when I played lead. Monette builds Bb, C and Eb mouthpieces so I use the same size, cup and throat for all of those horns. Even the flugel and cornet mouthpiece have the same rim.
I would also disagree that mouthpieces GENERALLY change with style unless we are comparing lead to everything else.
We are creatures of habit and to get a stable base, we need to reduce our choices to optimize with the limited time that those of us posting here have.
If accuracy is a non issue for your playing, then the free for all is fine.
I do not need multiple mouthpieces for symphonic, chamber, commercial or big band (except lead). My chosen mouthpiece is dynamic enough in its behaviour that I do not experience problems that I can't fix just by practicing more.
Now, the bogus use of the word physics in this context is worth clarifying. IF high quality playing is critical, we actually have very few choices. We need very clear articulation, clear tone from low to high. We need a tone compatible with the section that we play in as well as great flexibility, security and good intonation. Please do not compare Till Brönner to Maynard Ferguson or Jean Francois Madeuf to Maurice Andre. They also have/had narrow choices that cover(ed) their specialized playing.
So, a lot of words around a very simple concept: jack of no trade and master of none. Creatures of habit need repetitions to develop a flexible tone covering many use cases. Creatures of habit need repetitions to build security and style. For players without a very strong foundation, changes are the primary cause of unreliability. Find the mouthpiece and practice routine that is the best compromise and stick with it.
Remember! this thread is about a player with an elusive high G# - so no lead, solo career, no historical performance practice or anything else with "special" hardware or non compatible tone. No hardware will solve this. It is mind over matter and perhaps Clarke is the answer, or maybe Schlossberg, for others it could just be getting too damn much pressure reduced a little bit.

1. It is really tough to get the human lips vibrating at a useful frequency without air...
2. Yes, we can excite a standing wave in a trumpet with a speaker or piezoelectric device without "blowing air"
3. An efficient embouchure needs LESS blowing than an inefficient one
4. That efficient embouchure created an optimal relationship between muscle tension around the lips and the pressure (not speed) of the air that we blow.
5. The nature of the original question is conducive to a lot of useless posting/arguing semantics
6. the best players have the best control of their air, body use and embouchure tension.

@J-Jericho Half of the fun is the positive comments from colleagues for the idea. The coke bottles are physically more stable than much of the competition. My favorite is the smaller 0.33 liter mute. In theory, this is an adaptation of the Renuzit mute.

Thank you for digging this out. I had as much fun putting it originally together as many had after using it for a while.

@ButchA said in Not really a "mouthpiece safari" but the need for a "saving grace" type of mouthpiece...:

In review:
Bach 10¾CW - arguably the easiest MP to play both low and high without any straining.
Bach 3C - a fantastic MP with a full sound, but after the high A, I start straining.
Curry 3M. - a really amazing, custom, MP that is (according to Mark Curry) in between a 3C and a 3D. I went right up to the high C with minimal straining.

In my world, no direct mouthpiece comparison has any meaning at all. We need to acclimate and that takes time. I have played mouthpieces (like the 14A4A) that were 15 minutes of bliss then caved because my lips bottomed out. I certainly could have solved that problem, but at what cost? Only a couple of months can tell!

We are the sum of what we repeatedly do. Regular and intelligent practice helps us create reliable playing targets. Mouthpiece searches - especially for those without well trained embouchures are a crap shoot!

I recommend picking ONE MOUTHPIECE and sticking with it for a couple of months. At that time, if you have been taking notes, you should be able to come up with the next step (stick with the mouthpiece or change).

As far as your comparison, it sounds like it was done in a small room. When trying to fill up larger playing venues, small mouthpieces can be a lot of work.

Please do not confuse what works for strong players with recommendations for weaker players.

My first action when reviewing a new piece is to determine phrasing and breathing. I enter breath marks, dynamics, slurs and other info (pencil). I ALWAYS prepare this way and practice with everything that I have decided. Only this way does it become habit for me and it relieves my mind during performance of some unnecessary decision making.
There are occasions when I enter notes to take a "small breath". I need this when I have little time further down to exhale before I fill up. The Bach Christmas Oratorio bass aria #8 "Grosser Herr" is an example of this situation. One could also try to muscle through, I just have had better luck through optimization.