Best posts made by ROWUK

Do not we all go through "stages" in our life before we even identify our own voice? Do not we from birth on "emulate" until we collect enough tools to follow our own path - first with attitude, then speech, then learning to walk... Do not many of us reach a level of "good enough for the gigs that I get" and actually play more than invest in new skills?

I always have trouble with out of context online criticism. I know from my own development and that of my students how many small steps are required to reach any particular goal.

I like Fabrizios playing. Thank you George for the link. I hear a lot of shedding and a certain command of the "jazz" genre. He is so far along, that many (including myself) could learn something even if he is not Miles, Cannonball or any other popular jazzer.

Let us watch his development over time. The media is not always kind to newcomers, we have a real opportunity here before others spoil it.

@Dr-GO you know my opinion of Jason Harrelson and his business practices. I do not consider his palette of instruments that adaptive. Sure, there is a lot to customize, I consider his approach to give a very „playable“ instrument but it locks the player into a certain shade of color. That is the bogusness of the concept. It is not what is in the players head, it is the shade injected by the maker.

This is my point. Those that buy those instruments do not „have to“, they simply can. The story comes after the fact.

I was with a student recently at a well stocked music store. The student was looking for a C trumpet. There were 6 instruments there, additionally I had my modified tuning bell Bach CL229H and my Monette Raja. For that student, a used Schilke screamed buy me! He sounded better with that instrument than with all the others. We had rehearsed auditioning instruments weeks before the trip. The student stuck to the audition procedures and was able to easily sift through the choices. We used my Monette as a reference but in the students case, it did not have that something special that the Schilke did.

I know of one manufacturer in Munich that has built „reference“ trumpets that are not sold or loaned. Potential buyers get a valve section and add parts with the goal of putting an instrument together that is better than the reference. They have a box of over 100 leadpipes -all essentially that all measure the same - but play differently. With the right audition procedure it only takes an hour to get the „best one“. Then comes the bell - much harder to zero in. At the end, braces are fitted. With another student of mine, we needed 3 hours to select the parts. This is what I was talking about. We got a horn that matched what was in the players head. It took 100 leadpipes and 10+ bells. This is NOT the Harrelson or Monette experience.

I can‘t speak for Harrelson as I have only played them but never bought one. In the case of Monette where I have 3, I can testify that the first one changed me. The second one was built on 10 years of communication with Monette and the positive experiences with the first instrument. He changed it. The third instrument is simply pick it up and play. There is no need to „think“ about color. It just happens.

The time frame needed to make musical decisions precludes „magic“.

@Kehaulani Yes, it is chicken and egg BUT you can have your cake and eat it too! I have a student with a reading deficiency. They can read a single line, but to move to the second line is almost impossible. We solved the issue by memorizing the last measure or two on one line and the first on the next. Confidence soars, reading quality goes up!

What an original way to get brass players to look at a specific brand never before mentioned at this site. The OP didn't say anything about what kind of horns, mouthpieces or accessories that they wanted to carry. Sounds almost like they were trying to sneak this in as an ad!

The 4 trumpet case seems to be pretty flimsy inside and expensive on the outside. The dealers that I frequent do not carry it, so I cannot offer anything special other than there is nothing that draws special attention to any detail.

I certainly need more than a week for any of the Charlier trancendental etudes. It has been on my stand for about 2 months and I get about 30 min/day with it. So much to tie together.

The human state is a huge shoebox full of single entities. The process for learning is to emulate first and then through the coordination of things collected in the shoebox, we get a result.
I would offer that the "beginning" jazz trumpeter with a "classical" mindset needs building blocks and structure to get started. Scales and chords should be memorized. Then Aebersol is much less daunting.

The next step is to fill that shoebox with melodies - memorized. Any of the fakebooks are great for standards! They also provide snippets of structure that help us keep from getting lost

@stumac said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

Jerome Wiss, a French maker who has completely redesigned the trumpet including the valve block with only 2 passages through the valves, in the up position the air goes through one port in one direction, in the down position the same port in the opposite direction, makes it all himself.

He came on TH three years ago announcing his new trumpet and was driven off by people who could not understand how it worked.

I ordered one beginning of April, delivery November/December.

Regards, Stuart.

I am anxious to hear of your first and lasting impressions. While standard valves (rotary and piston) in many respects are really "dumb design" (in respect to geometry, wear, mass, friction), they have stood the test of time. It is great that we have some free thinkers like Wiss, Monette and others that push the envelope - in spite of the nay sayers.

The F trumpet is not popular because of one reason: security. That is the main reason for the ever shorter instruments most used today. Our standard Bb trumpet today used to be called the "high Bb trumpet" by the F trumpet players. They criticised the smaller horns for their "tone".

My F trumpet is in tune. Due to its length however, it does not blend in a section of modern Bb trumpets. The tone is dramatically different.

V cups go back to medieval times. They were easy to produce - and worked.

As far as the "modern" trumpet goes there are deep Vee cups like from flugelhorns and cornets - and shallow Vee cups like those that Maynard Ferguson played.

What actually works for the modern player is very debatable. Most of our success is in our heads - what we believe, how we bias confirm what we believe.

I would insist that we need MONTHS to acclimate to a new architecture before we could really know if the switch was good or not.

I use Vee cups for my cornets and flugelhorns and C cups for everything else. I can switch easily back and forth.

I have a Vee cup experiment for a natural trumpet project. There are some historic originals that I want to try.

@Kehaulani said in Seeking input on Rules:

Well, as I read it, it's not a pursuit for perfection, rather an arbitrary time frame to just meet the challenge of doing what one can do within a timef frame; something to do for fun and challenge during this virus period to beat the boredom.

Never waste a note...

Gary,
normally I do not answer your 20 posts answering each of mine or anyone elses (must have something to do with keeping your post count high). In this case I make an exception and quote "So here is my bitch with your bitch ROWUK... how in the hell did you get the idea this was a discussion about using alcohol as a cleaning agent? The posts above are discussing alcohol as a disinfectant:"

Well, what is the title of this thread? I rest my case. How in the hell did I get the idea? Simple reading. The OP even goes into detail in the initial post about much more than disinfection. In fact, what he does is something that I would never do - for various reasons.

Now, unrelated to the content - why do you respond with "how in the hell did you get...". Do you ever look in the mirror (figuratively) and think about how you address people - who you even are? I know that you consider yourself to be a top expert on many things - unfortunately the shitty presentations does reduce the urge to even bother to get involved to about zero.

So, as far as this thread is concerned, I am done too. Don't bother to respond to me, I am not coming back to this thread. There is nothing that you could add to "clear" the situation up. Be sure that what I have said here will not get repeated elsewhere, it is simply not worth my time.

I do not understand the excitement. Is horn X a rip off? Well, that depends on our definition.

Most „civilized“ countries have trademark laws. If a manufacturer breaks those laws, then they pay the price. That does not make the product bad or the price point irrelevant.
What bothers me most, is the selective use of emotion. Why should anyone be pissed off when a company in China or elsewhere fills an economic need? Are we mad because the word „Stradivarius“ has been used twice? Are we mad because a band teacher should „know better“? Are we just mad because that is the current popular political vent?

I see nothing wrong with this horn. I personally have a high performance standard for my own instruments not yet filled by a cheap instrument and I discuss this issue openly with my students and their parents. If they make another decision, fine. The most important thing is that the student enjoys playing and practicing. Everything else rests on those shoulders.

In 1975 a Bach trumpet was <$500 at Giardinellis in New York. I wish that salaries had inflated this much....

Kodak learned the hard way what happens when the market and the product no longer match. The digital revolution blew them out of the water. How many manufacturers of instruments are now dead. Why are they dead?

To be honest, for many kids, it is the cheap horn or no horn. They are not interested in flea market bargains on „vintage“ instruments with 50% lacquer.

Let us not let elitism screw up something very precious. There can be value at this level.

This is the soprano low F-Trumpet that I am talking about:

It takes a "standard" Bb trumpet mouthpiece, preferably with a deep cup. The historic mouthpiece often had a thin "cookie cutter" rim.

I successfully use LaTromba T2 (new bottle), Ultra Pure, Hetmans (various thicknesses) and Monster (various thicknesses). LaTromba T2 is the cheapest (in Europe). I buy it by the case.

They are all "equal" on my horns if applied properly. They are much faster than my fingers, last for at least a week of heavy playing. I have no sticking or other artifacts.

Horns that I use these oils on:
Bach 229CL
Selmer Radial 2°
Monette Raja C
Getzen Eterna 4 valve flugel
Cheap chinese pocket trumpet
All of my rotary trumpets

I also use these oils to keep my natural trumpet slides and bows from oxidizing together.

Clean horn first, wait until it is bone dry, apply oil sparingly. Never mix oils and greaes on the same horn.
It is not rocket science and I have no preference - maybe I am simply not good enough to notice? Maybe I simply do not have a "need" to have a preference?

My problem is that I am not really motivated. Many threads develop in a similar way:

1. original post
2. a couple of thank yous
3. maybe a subject supporting post or two
4. Class clown attack that has nothing to do with the original content
5. Derailed post can go just about anywhere - but not without devils advocate posting

I can say that the feeling is like with certain teachers that I had - for one or 2 lessons. My general feeling here is of suffocation. Extreme efforts (in my opinion) are being made to keep it "clean", "friendly", "family". The general feeling is not digging in and accepting reality, rather a lavender painted over.

I a pretty sure that if I started posting like I feel, that the threads would last 2 days. In that case, why bother. At Trumpetmaster I made a point about getting to the meat immediately. Here we seem to be afraid of blood.

@jessie, Technically EVERY valve ALWAYS does something - maybe not what we want, but something. This has nothing to do with being a beginner.

The lips are the tone generator. I will assume that you can play a low C, a second line G and a third space C reliably.

The ONLY choices are: the valves lower the pitch or they prevent air from going through/are VERY, VERY stuffy. If the horn is complete, there is no chance that they have no function.

On an open low C the pitch must change. On an open second line G, no valve and valves 1+3 CAN have the same pitch. On an open third space C, 2+3 can have the same pitch. On an open 4th space E, 3 or 1+2 can have the same pitch. For beginners, we do not need to even talk about higher notes.

If the beginner has no reliable pitch whatsoever (or just blows air through the horn), then the valve makes a difference, but the weak embouchure is not capable of sustaining any tone. In any case I suggest getting a lesson to get the hang of playing resonant tones - and getting the horn checked out. The lesson does not have to be from a virtuoso. A music teacher in school or one of the better brass players in a school or community band can speed up the learning process a lot.

Let's get this "higher quality made in the US" notion out of our heads. Quality has NOTHING to o with location. Quality is a function of responsible decisions in the manufacturing process. America has NOTHING that would be decisive in higher quaity instruments. Every company decides how much "quality" goes into their products. In the case of chinese manufacturers, the importers placing the order decide how much "quality should be built and they get what they pay for.

As far as Americans out of work, that is how capitalism works. Money does not care if a specific group of people are employed. It only cares if anyone is left to buy the products.

@Trumpetb, I report my first hand experience. I did not say that the importer dictated price. I said that the manufacturers have a catalog of options and that the importer can put instruments together from junk to great. The assumption that there must be a moral obligation in commerce is simply naive on your part. That is why there are laws to protect the end customer.

What I do not like is that you derail this thread (as usual with far too many words) which is about somebody selling an instrument because of the perceived category being “student quality”.

@_Mark_
I would say that the tuner is probably causing more damage to your playing than helping. Turn the tuner off and just relax into the biggest and best "sound" for each note. You will have plenty of time later to work on intonation but if you compromise your sound, it will be almost impossible to fix that later. We do NOT WANT TO FORCE OUR BODY TO DO THINGS THAT WE ARE NOT YET READY FOR! Beginners bending the notes to get them in tune just supports crappy breathing and twisting our face into shape.

Hang in there big guy! Better times are coming!