Best posts made by ROWUK

The thread owner needs to clear some stuff up. Nothing makes sense.

@SSmith1226 said in First Valve Slide and more:

Thanks for both of your opinions. Relative to the spacer suggestion, is it possible that the valves need an alignment?

Out of alignment valves cause more "focus" issues with the tone, not direct intonation problems.

@barliman2001 I guess, I just disagree in principle with locking down non-abusive threads - regardless of age. I see no logic or necessity (your argumentation of cluttering simply does not apply in my view), but I guess I have never really felt "at home" here - at least not enough to start actively posting. I find this behavior of locking down unique to you and not standard at any other forums that I am a member of.

This issue is not enough to make me stop visiting, but it certainly was enough reason to address the issue. As I said, it is just one of the things here that I find unnecessarily "annoying".

Kehaulani, perhaps it does not matter but I felt a need to address what I feel is an admin looking for work instead of a valuable forum feature. I do understand that this was never policy. I know that Elmar is not doing this with malicious intent, but I have the impression that this is not something that anyone ever asked for.

Time to clean up your websites. Nothing that demonstrates a superior attitude more than keeping the creative juices flowing. I can imagine that people stuck at home would spend more time online. It would be a good thing to have a big chunk of that time.

@Dr-GO said in Best Off-brand Trumpets:

Here is a pic of my Allora Pocket Trumpet

Can't get more "off" than that...

There are wind town bands all over Germany, most with no chance to earn money. There is also a fair amount of freelance work, but a lot of that is being covered by professional musicians with music jobs. Getting a break means having the right teacher and playing well enough for them to want to take you instead of another pro that could also offer them gigs in return.

@Brian-Moon
is a joke thread really the place for another Evolutionist vs Creationist discourse? I think the topic deserves its own thread - with the chance that it will get shut down when (not if) it gets louder. It is almost religion - regardless of what side of the issue one is on. We did have this issue at TrumpetMaster too...

As far as the NY Times "consistently" lying, that is certainly open to interpretation if reporting someone elses findings is lying or reporting. Or if it is the reader that injects other arguments...

I have no knowledge of jellyfish, so I asked Dr. Google what science there is. There is a wealth of research and plenty of non ambiguous "proof". It was an interesting 30 minutes!

The reference to Utah specifies the Cambrian era (in fact 500 million years ago):
Van Iten, Heyo; Marques, Antonio C.; Leme, Juliana de Moraes; Pacheco, Mirian L. A. Forancelli; Simões, Marcello Guimaraes (2014). Smith, Andrew (ed.). "Origin and early diversification of the phylum Cnidaria Verrill: major developments in the analysis of the taxon's Proterozoic-Cambrian history". Palaeontology. 57 (4): 677–690. doi:10.1111/pala.12116.

A more precise date using modern radiometric dating yield a date of 541 ± 0.3 million years ago.
Gradstein, F.M.; Ogg, J.G.; Smith, A.G.; et al. (2004). A Geologic Time Scale 2004. Cambridge University Press.

None of the science that I mentioned delves into any divine creation or "evolution" of the jellyfish from lower forms. It does show a unique trait that makes a specific type more or less immortal. Here is a non-scientific site that is certainly entertaining: https://immortal-jellyfish.com

Let's make this thread funny again...

Gary,
normally I do not answer your 20 posts answering each of mine or anyone elses (must have something to do with keeping your post count high). In this case I make an exception and quote "So here is my bitch with your bitch ROWUK... how in the hell did you get the idea this was a discussion about using alcohol as a cleaning agent? The posts above are discussing alcohol as a disinfectant:"

Well, what is the title of this thread? I rest my case. How in the hell did I get the idea? Simple reading. The OP even goes into detail in the initial post about much more than disinfection. In fact, what he does is something that I would never do - for various reasons.

Now, unrelated to the content - why do you respond with "how in the hell did you get...". Do you ever look in the mirror (figuratively) and think about how you address people - who you even are? I know that you consider yourself to be a top expert on many things - unfortunately the shitty presentations does reduce the urge to even bother to get involved to about zero.

So, as far as this thread is concerned, I am done too. Don't bother to respond to me, I am not coming back to this thread. There is nothing that you could add to "clear" the situation up. Be sure that what I have said here will not get repeated elsewhere, it is simply not worth my time.

Username, if you live in Germany, get in contact with me. I live near Frankfurt/Main and we could go through all of the motions BEFORE you decide in which direction to go. It makes no sense to "import" a trumpet if you are just getting started. Germany has enough instruments available with no customs issues.

320kbps MP3. Respectable sound for a free download! I wonder if the original recording has better sound?

Thanks Dale for the link!

@jessie, Technically EVERY valve ALWAYS does something - maybe not what we want, but something. This has nothing to do with being a beginner.

The lips are the tone generator. I will assume that you can play a low C, a second line G and a third space C reliably.

The ONLY choices are: the valves lower the pitch or they prevent air from going through/are VERY, VERY stuffy. If the horn is complete, there is no chance that they have no function.

On an open low C the pitch must change. On an open second line G, no valve and valves 1+3 CAN have the same pitch. On an open third space C, 2+3 can have the same pitch. On an open 4th space E, 3 or 1+2 can have the same pitch. For beginners, we do not need to even talk about higher notes.

If the beginner has no reliable pitch whatsoever (or just blows air through the horn), then the valve makes a difference, but the weak embouchure is not capable of sustaining any tone. In any case I suggest getting a lesson to get the hang of playing resonant tones - and getting the horn checked out. The lesson does not have to be from a virtuoso. A music teacher in school or one of the better brass players in a school or community band can speed up the learning process a lot.

Brass instruments adhere to standard characteristics of physical laws. If we look at the series of partials (the notes that we can play without changing the valve pressed), they each represent a resonance mathematically related to the fundamental. Pedal C is the fundemental, low C at double the frequency, 2nd line G at 3x the fundamental frequency, 3rd space c at 4 times the fundamental...

In addition, based on the construction of the horn we have a "quality" of resonance (in physics called "Q") that determines how easy or hard it is to bend the note. If the Q is high, we have to exert a lot of energy to bend a note. If the Q is low, our chops have to provide the stability. Anyone that has been forced to use alternate fingerings on a Bach C trumpet, has firsthand experience about the Q of the 4th space E, Eb and 4th line D being too strong. The horn "wants" to play those notes very flat. Many trumpets also have a top of the staff G too high in pitch and a high C too low. That forces us to compensate with body tension - something that hurts our overall playing and sound.

Slotting is NOT the Q, at least not directly. Because we need to hear ourselves to tune, there is a perceived pitch and resonance that we call "slotting". The artisan building the trumpet must optimize the "targets" that we play, allowing moderate bending of pitch but a sense of security at the same time.

The resonance pattern of the trumpet also determines its tone in the various registers. Our brain reacts to a thinner sound of equal pitch with the sense that it actually is going sharp - we compensate by forcing the pitch lower - even although it is wrong. The opposite happens when the sound gets thicker - we force the pitch up.

My whole point is that "slotting" as a concept is flawed. We have to break down what affects pitch, tone and security. Players that "brag" about the "slotting" of their horns, generally play out of tune...

Now to confuse the rest, the "Q" of a trumpet is based more or less on bell flare shape (slotting is additionally affected by the mouthpiece, bracing and thickness/hardness of the bell). Standard horns are most efficient between low C and 2nd ledger line C above the staff. Above and below that, the Q goes down very quickly. Because Q is resonance, we have to work harder above the staff because the trumpet helps us less. A larger bell like on the higher Monette models, extends efficiency to lower notes. There is a cost of business however...

@sessionaire Just contact Dave Monette. Just talk to him. Maybe you do not even need a doctor. Maybe he even knows someone in your area that could take a completely different view of the issue. https://www.davemonette.com

Jennifer Montone - solo horn with the Philadelphia Orchestra was in a car accident and damage to the hips immobilized her embouchure - no, not spine damage. Your root problem may have nothing to do with these serious symptoms. You may also want to watch this carefully:

@trumpetb I will insist that "stretching" the spring will not improve performance. We may be able to squeeze a bit more life out of it, but if our stretch is NOT ABSOLUTELY STRAIGHT, the spring is damaged and will actually have worse performance.
Stretching a spring for more tension also assumes that the stretched wire will hold the stretch, that would have to be proven on a case by case basis.

I would insist that Hookes law does not apply here.

F = kx

“F” being the amount of push or pull is on the spring

“k” being a constant, indicating the stiffness of the spring

“x” being the distance the spring was pushed or pulled

Our distance that we stretched is a deformation of the wire and the "new" base for testing. Stretching the spring means that we exceed its elasticity, thus destroying all of the original parameters. What K is left after deformation depends on the spring material and tension. Now, if we retemper after stretch, we have a new animal. I have never read about retempering valve springs.

@masterwannabe Used trumpets are a buyers market - with very few exceptions. I would have no personal interest at all for me or my students. It would make a nice lamp - that is what I will do with my Monette Raja C when I retire from trumpet playing.

Happy Easter 2024 to all of you! Here is hoping to get to know more of you personally!

I guess that we will get no agreement, so let us agree to disagree. Every stretched spring experiment that I know about (with my 55+ years of playing there were a few), have not improved anything. Sticky valves remained sticky, the valves were never faster and more often than not, the scraping noise from bent springs. Pages of irrelevant math do not change the basic premise, so why argue? I have all of the stuff to measure and document the changes (I train our employees and customers to operate and service thermal cutting machines where we use springs in various functions), but have no interest as I have never had a positive experience related to the trumpet or our machines.
I would further advance that springs do not increase playing speed as our fine motor activity is what it is and the quality of the valve lubrication is the deciding factor and very much subject to environmental factors (temperature, aerosols, stroke angle when depressing the valve).
In my world, stiffer springs are for calming the brain of certain players, not increasing performance.
I am always amazed at how smooth and light the action of my valves are after a „maintenance“ by technicians that I trust. I am anally retentive about cleanliness next to godliness when applied to trumpet valves, but still, they apply magic, not springs. They also are very adament about not stretching.

@oldschooleuph
And as fine of a horn as the Bach 180 Stradivarius is/was (when yours found you), the "build quality" in the 60s/70s/80s was worse than a student Ambassador or certainly a Schilke. Lacquer and silver plate usually developed blemishes within 3 years. For heavy players, the valves were worth refurbishing every 5 or 6 years to get compression back. Precision valve alignments had very noticable effects (sometimes even negative). Perhaps the valve wear could have been minimized with synthetic lubricants - or cleaning more often and repeated application of "Al Cass" per day. Standard for me was oiling when the horn complained or after the weekly bath.

Although there were hundreds to thousands of possibilities, Most everyone that I knew went to a store to pick one out of stock. I know of one single trumpeter that actually ordered a customized horn directly from Bach. In my opinion even today, Bach=play before you pay.

I would heartily disagree that "warts" are bad. Why can we not accept that we are human, fallible but capable of development? A recording of a live concert by a school band, symphony orchestra or church choir is a time document - showing various realities and triggering honest memories. That is far more "valuable" than pimped material where we would like to portray ourselves as superheros.
As far as the bar for putting stuff on YouTube, we are simply feeding the beast. Like with social Media in general, "weak content" prevails, not because of lack of talent, rather because of lack of humility. I have no trouble rubbing that in peoples noses years later. A CD passed around to friends and family would have been enough but wanting to be a movie star clouded our common sense.
It becomes even more problematic when we try to help the misguided by critiquing the posts. Then the excuses start and those in a position to help are attacked for misunderstanding the purpose behind publishing.
Nope, I say our recordings are what they are and bad decisions are no different. If our first posted recordings are weak but we show incredible growth, we are good model roles. If our performances stay weak but we continue to post, we learn something about that person. Also not a bad thing. Black and white lists are available for most forms of social media.
The choice has ALWAYS been ours but the results involve others whether we like it or not.

@trumpetb I am in my late 60s and have been playing for over 50 years.
My Bach C229 was purchased in 1974 and still has the original springs
My Monette Raja C was built in 1989/1990 and still has the original springs
My Selmer Radial 2° Model 75 was built in 1974 and still has the original springs
My Selmer Radial 2° D trumpet was built in 1978 and still has the original springs
My Heckel rotary Bb was built in 1938 and still has the original springs
My Getzen 4 valve flugelhorn was built in the 1970s and still has the original springs

The rest of my horns are similar. They ALL get played a lot but do not need stretching or replacement. That being said, my horns do go to a technician every couple of years for a checkup and chemical clean (no ultrasound bath). My suspicion is that the spring gets blamed for valve dirt, distortion and damage because stretching is a supposed "cheaper fix".

I will not deny that there are causes to replace springs, but I see little to no reason to ever stretch - unless the valve has exceptionally long throw (like old Benges). Stretching to fine tune tension simply has no benefit.

The short throw of typical trumpet valves does not cause excessive wear on spring tension. If the valves are regularly cleaned and oiled, the spring has a very easy job and as I noted above, lasts for decades with no hit in performance.

As I previously posted, stretching the spring does unpredictable things to K - the tension. No general statement can be made except that the stretching was not worth it.