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    Fast Tempo and old farts

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    • GeorgeB
      GeorgeB @Kehaulani last edited by

      @Kehaulani said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

      You know, if you're having finger-speed problems on Liberty Bell, your conductor is taking it at way too fast a tempo.

      I thought he was and so did a few others, but most of the band was happy with the fast tempo so I doubt if it will be changed. We'll see tonight because I know for certain we will be spending a lot of time on Liberty Bell.

      1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

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      • C
        Comeback @GeorgeB last edited by

        @GeorgeB said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

        Jim,
        All my trumpets have fast valves so I can't use slow valves as an excuse. I don't think as fast as I used to, and this is more noticeable with each passing year. It happens with age. I just do my best to work it out by repetition of those passages that are slowing me down. It's seems to be working for me now on Liberty Bell so I am starting to feel pretty good about it.

        George,
        Similarly, all of my horns have fast valves and are in good order. However, I learned a few things after spending an hour working with the four of them on one number. The piece I used was a march I sort of mangled last night, which was composed by the MD. This afternoon I seemed to be fastest and most accurate with the Getzen, followed by the Holton Galaxy. All of this is a little subjective, of course, but the ergonomics of the Getzen and Galaxy seemed to be advantageous. Each of the four horns requires different aspects of grip and finger angle. This afternoon I believe I got that sorted out.

        GeorgeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Kehaulani
          Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

          Original performance by the composer and his band:
          Youtube Video

          Benge 3X
          Martin Committee
          Getzen Capri Cornet
          Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

          "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
          Charlie Parker

          "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
          Chet Baker

          barliman2001 GeorgeB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • fels
            fels last edited by

            This is not a hijack -- just an example.

            Our jazz band is rehearsing Oliver Nelson's "Hoe Down" for performance in March. Measures 20 and 21 is a bebop riff appregio up and down that is very difficult - especially at fast tempo. I have been playing it very slowly to get the notes in my head and let my fingers and embouchure coordinate. It is still difficult -- my plan is to keep practicing slowly until i do not have to think about it. The tempo is much faster than Liberty bell and the riff comes immediately after the main theme statement -- so there is no time to think or prepare -- it has to be automatic --I saw other responses above that reinforce that -- practice until you don't have to think -- because sometimes you simply do not have time.

            Schilke x3
            Bach Strad 37
            Courtois Flugel

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            • J. Jericho
              J. Jericho Global Moderator last edited by J. Jericho

              Just wondering about the positioning of the fingers effect on speed. I was taught and confirmed that proper fingering technique gives your fingers a mechanical advantage that makes playing passages fast both easy and precise. Here's a great example;

              1e758344-862d-429b-bb0f-e4c9d314c715-image.png
              yamaha.com

              '62 Olds Studio Trumpet
              '67 Olds Special Trumpet
              2013 Dillon Pocket Trumpet
              '83 Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn
              1919 York Perfec-Tone Cornet
              '50 Olds Studio Trombone
              Shofar

              "If it was just up to me, I'd only have trumpet players on my show." - Jackie Gleason

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              • barliman2001
                barliman2001 Global Moderator @Kehaulani last edited by

                @Kehaulani said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

                Original performance by the composer and his band:
                Youtube Video

                I very much doubt that this is an original Sousa recording, especially as it says "Conductor: John Wallace"...

                Courtois Balanced
                Courtois D
                Olds Recording
                Buescher Aristocrat
                Gaudet C
                Selmer G
                Courtois 154 Flugelhorn
                Besson International Bb cornet
                Courtois Bb cornet
                B&H Sovereign Soprano Cornet
                B&H Sovereign trombone
                Willy Garreis trombone
                Weltklang Euph

                Kehaulani 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • barliman2001
                  barliman2001 Global Moderator last edited by

                  HERE is an original Sousa recording, dated 1911, from a Graphophone cylinder:

                  Courtois Balanced
                  Courtois D
                  Olds Recording
                  Buescher Aristocrat
                  Gaudet C
                  Selmer G
                  Courtois 154 Flugelhorn
                  Besson International Bb cornet
                  Courtois Bb cornet
                  B&H Sovereign Soprano Cornet
                  B&H Sovereign trombone
                  Willy Garreis trombone
                  Weltklang Euph

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • Kehaulani
                    Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @barliman2001 last edited by

                    @barliman2001 said in Fast Tempo and old farts:
                    I very much doubt that this is an original Sousa recording, especially as it says "Conductor: John Wallace"...

                    My bad. I don't know how I could've done that. But the performance of Sousa on Barliman's link is about the same as the Marine Band's performance by Col. John R. Bourgeois. I know him and he's pretty meticulous about these things. In any case, these recordings show without a doubt that The Liberty Bell is not a circus march.

                    Benge 3X
                    Martin Committee
                    Getzen Capri Cornet
                    Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                    "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                    Charlie Parker

                    "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                    Chet Baker

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • GeorgeB
                      GeorgeB @Kehaulani last edited by

                      @Kehaulani said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

                      Original performance by the composer and his band:
                      Youtube Video

                      Last night's practice went well. The MD slowed the tempo a tad ( I'd say to about the same tempo as heard in Kehaulani's link above ). I only flubbed a couple of places early in the first third of the arrangement. I'm getting there, by golly.

                      1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • GeorgeB
                        GeorgeB @Comeback last edited by

                        @Comeback

                        Whatever works, Jim.

                        1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

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                        • ROWUK
                          ROWUK Veterans & Military Musicians Western Europe Group Monette Club @GeorgeB last edited by

                          @GeorgeB For things at the limit of what I can play (recently 1st trumpet in the orchestra version of Rimsky-Korsakovs Scheherezade), my standard take is to completely memorize the difficult licks. Once I have freed up my eyes, they do not slow my fingers or tongue down any more! 😉

                          GeorgeB Kehaulani 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • GeorgeB
                            GeorgeB @ROWUK last edited by

                            @ROWUK said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

                            @GeorgeB For things at the limit of what I can play (recently 1st trumpet in the orchestra version of Rimsky-Korsakovs Scheherezade), my standard take is to completely memorize the difficult licks. Once I have freed up my eyes, they do not slow my fingers or tongue down any more! 😉

                            And that makes a lot of sense.

                            1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

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                            • Kehaulani
                              Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @ROWUK last edited by

                              @ROWUK said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

                              @GeorgeB For things at the limit of what I can play (recently 1st trumpet in the orchestra version of Rimsky-Korsakovs Scheherezade), my standard take is to completely memorize the difficult licks. Once I have freed up my eyes, they do not slow my fingers or tongue down any more! 😉

                              Kind of chicken or the egg, isn't it? It may be completely true that not reading the music gives one a freedom and he plays even better. OTOH, it takes an extra level of preparation to be able to play something like that from memory, and that extra hard work might be the reason for better playing, which has to do with putting the icing on the cake, and is unrelated to memorization.

                              Benge 3X
                              Martin Committee
                              Getzen Capri Cornet
                              Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                              "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                              Charlie Parker

                              "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                              Chet Baker

                              GeorgeB ROWUK 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • GeorgeB
                                GeorgeB @Kehaulani last edited by

                                @Kehaulani

                                I could never memorize large portions of Liberty Bell but I could the shorter passages that were giving me trouble. But you'll note I said "were giving me trouble " . I actually surprised myself in how well I was doing last night.

                                1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

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                                • Kehaulani
                                  Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

                                  8aae15d6-07d5-461f-93ed-483a9e0b4c83-image.png

                                  Benge 3X
                                  Martin Committee
                                  Getzen Capri Cornet
                                  Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                                  "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                                  Charlie Parker

                                  "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                                  Chet Baker

                                  GeorgeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • ROWUK
                                    ROWUK Veterans & Military Musicians Western Europe Group Monette Club @Kehaulani last edited by ROWUK

                                    @Kehaulani Yes, it is chicken and egg BUT you can have your cake and eat it too! I have a student with a reading deficiency. They can read a single line, but to move to the second line is almost impossible. We solved the issue by memorizing the last measure or two on one line and the first on the next. Confidence soars, reading quality goes up!

                                    Kehaulani 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • Kehaulani
                                      Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @ROWUK last edited by

                                      @ROWUK said in Fast Tempo and old farts:
                                      Confidence soars, reading quality goes up!

                                      More power to him. That's great.

                                      Benge 3X
                                      Martin Committee
                                      Getzen Capri Cornet
                                      Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                                      "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                                      Charlie Parker

                                      "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                                      Chet Baker

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • GeorgeB
                                        GeorgeB @Kehaulani last edited by

                                        @Kehaulani

                                        Who the heck is Lobster Jimmy ?

                                        1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

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                                        • GeorgeB
                                          GeorgeB @ROWUK last edited by GeorgeB

                                          @ROWUK said in Fast Tempo and old farts:

                                          @GeorgeB For things at the limit of what I can play (recently 1st trumpet in the orchestra version of Rimsky-Korsakovs Scheherezade), my standard take is to completely memorize the difficult licks. Once I have freed up my eyes, they do not slow my fingers or tongue down any more! 😉

                                          This thing about memorizing difficult licks worked for me on Liberty Bell and now I am using it effectively for other pieces as well. Thanks for that tip, Rowuk.

                                          1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

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