Posts made by ROWUK

Just say no!

I successfully use LaTromba T2 (new bottle), Ultra Pure, Hetmans (various thicknesses) and Monster (various thicknesses). LaTromba T2 is the cheapest (in Europe). I buy it by the case.

They are all "equal" on my horns if applied properly. They are much faster than my fingers, last for at least a week of heavy playing. I have no sticking or other artifacts.

Horns that I use these oils on:
Bach 229CL
Selmer Radial 2°
Monette Raja C
Getzen Eterna 4 valve flugel
Cheap chinese pocket trumpet
All of my rotary trumpets

I also use these oils to keep my natural trumpet slides and bows from oxidizing together.

Clean horn first, wait until it is bone dry, apply oil sparingly. Never mix oils and greaes on the same horn.
It is not rocket science and I have no preference - maybe I am simply not good enough to notice? Maybe I simply do not have a "need" to have a preference?

@stumac I think that a "barrel" backbore would be something like the Schmidt Backbore that Schilke uses as well as certain hyperbolic shapes used by Monette.
Those that get excited about backbores need to keep in mind that the rim, cup, throat, leadpipe and bell are also in the system and that any advantage is very much dependent on the synergy.

A good playing mouthpiece with a standard backbore gets a flat upper register when we change the backbore in this way. Some like that because they play tense and that compensates...

V cups go back to medieval times. They were easy to produce - and worked.

As far as the "modern" trumpet goes there are deep Vee cups like from flugelhorns and cornets - and shallow Vee cups like those that Maynard Ferguson played.

What actually works for the modern player is very debatable. Most of our success is in our heads - what we believe, how we bias confirm what we believe.

I would insist that we need MONTHS to acclimate to a new architecture before we could really know if the switch was good or not.

I use Vee cups for my cornets and flugelhorns and C cups for everything else. I can switch easily back and forth.

I have a Vee cup experiment for a natural trumpet project. There are some historic originals that I want to try.

Mavbe some of us are reading the auction incorrectly. The engraving says Duke Donin FROM Louis Armstrong. Christies has a bunch of "non scientific" theories - not backed by documentation (invoice, serial number. history):
https://www.christies.com/features/The-1948-Louis-Satchmo-Armstrong-trumpet-10881-3.aspx

Certainly a collectors item, but you really have to want to believe the conjecture about Louis having actually played theis horn...

I think that the word "precision" in trumpet valve alignment is not exactly accurate. We have a "huge" amount of play horizontally even if we get up and down right. I have never seen a "precision" valve guide that reduces that horizontal error to thousandths.

That being said, I think that the valves and slides being tight is even more critical. Many good players play much better with heavier valve oil - even if the player does not like the feel.

I use a cheap fiber optic endoscope to look at the bore and valves from the inside. Need to get the solder blobs and grime out too.

I have also had mixed results with PVA and gap - regardless if I did it or I had my artisan of preference do it.

What ALWAYS worked was a complete disassembly of the horn - unsoldering EVERYTHING soft soldered, reassembling without jigs or tension applied to the parts, solder cleanup and polish inside, then valve job, PVA/gap.

I believe that there is a short and long term "break in" of the horn and player. Short term, it is wear/mechanical (valves/slides) for the hardware and acclimation of the player. Long term it is tempre, wear (gap, leaky slides and valves) and the training of preferences in our ears/brain. Those preferences can be blow, sound, color or intonation - all being related.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirschl

It is not even a shadow of the former company. These horns have nothing to do with the Nirschl quality from Germany. They can still be OK, at least as OK as China, India and Brazil produce.

The Meister can be found here:
http://www.walternirschl.de/sites/home.html

If that is the original case, it is a far east creation. I do not think that a realistic value can be placed without physically seeing the horn - even if it were a popular brand. Valve condition, repairs, etc. all determine its value.

In this case with the leadpipe sleeve, I would assume that it did not come from the factory this way. I would suspect someone customized.

In my view, it looks terribly unbalanced. Sheet bracing, removable bell imply "heavy" something that is not good for a horn not designed to specifically be that way.

Play before you pay. This is an old horn and no one will say if it has been "repaired" or not. Because the picture quality is low, bell creases would go unnoticed.
I have played Radial 2° from miserable to brilliant and never could blindly recommend them. I paid 500 euros for my Bb - but played before paying. Mine is only a bit better than "good" and I am working on making it "great" - probably at a cost of $700 to $1,000 ...

Brass instruments adhere to standard characteristics of physical laws. If we look at the series of partials (the notes that we can play without changing the valve pressed), they each represent a resonance mathematically related to the fundamental. Pedal C is the fundemental, low C at double the frequency, 2nd line G at 3x the fundamental frequency, 3rd space c at 4 times the fundamental...

In addition, based on the construction of the horn we have a "quality" of resonance (in physics called "Q") that determines how easy or hard it is to bend the note. If the Q is high, we have to exert a lot of energy to bend a note. If the Q is low, our chops have to provide the stability. Anyone that has been forced to use alternate fingerings on a Bach C trumpet, has firsthand experience about the Q of the 4th space E, Eb and 4th line D being too strong. The horn "wants" to play those notes very flat. Many trumpets also have a top of the staff G too high in pitch and a high C too low. That forces us to compensate with body tension - something that hurts our overall playing and sound.

Slotting is NOT the Q, at least not directly. Because we need to hear ourselves to tune, there is a perceived pitch and resonance that we call "slotting". The artisan building the trumpet must optimize the "targets" that we play, allowing moderate bending of pitch but a sense of security at the same time.

The resonance pattern of the trumpet also determines its tone in the various registers. Our brain reacts to a thinner sound of equal pitch with the sense that it actually is going sharp - we compensate by forcing the pitch lower - even although it is wrong. The opposite happens when the sound gets thicker - we force the pitch up.

My whole point is that "slotting" as a concept is flawed. We have to break down what affects pitch, tone and security. Players that "brag" about the "slotting" of their horns, generally play out of tune...

Now to confuse the rest, the "Q" of a trumpet is based more or less on bell flare shape (slotting is additionally affected by the mouthpiece, bracing and thickness/hardness of the bell). Standard horns are most efficient between low C and 2nd ledger line C above the staff. Above and below that, the Q goes down very quickly. Because Q is resonance, we have to work harder above the staff because the trumpet helps us less. A larger bell like on the higher Monette models, extends efficiency to lower notes. There is a cost of business however...

This thread will show the "foolishness" of putting "slotting" high on the list of trumpet priorities. We need flexibility to play in tune.

There is a "bible" on intonation written by Chris Leuba - a former horn player with the Chicago Symphony. I am not sure if it is still in print, but it is certainly worth having.

https://www.hornguys.com/products/a-study-of-musical-intonation-by-christopher-leuba-pub-cherry

Great link! Thanks!

1. It is really tough to get the human lips vibrating at a useful frequency without air...
2. Yes, we can excite a standing wave in a trumpet with a speaker or piezoelectric device without "blowing air"
3. An efficient embouchure needs LESS blowing than an inefficient one
4. That efficient embouchure created an optimal relationship between muscle tension around the lips and the pressure (not speed) of the air that we blow.
5. The nature of the original question is conducive to a lot of useless posting/arguing semantics
6. the best players have the best control of their air, body use and embouchure tension.

@Kehaulani said in Playing risks in Covid-time:

@Dr-GO said in Playing risks in Covid-time:

@Kehaulani said in Playing risks in Covid-time:

"The government", in this case, are the highly experienced, infectious disease medical experts the President, himself, selected.

I don't think the President selected Fauci. I believe he was already in the position as the Director of the National Science Foundation Allergy and Infections Disease Division. The President can only elect to listen or not to listen to Dr. Fauci's advice.

Doesn't Fauci "serve at the pleasure of the President"?

No, he does what is right...

@djeffers78 No, the lockdown is in the meantime the result of stupid behaviour. There is no doubt about what transmits the disease. The government only makes choices to protect as many as possible. Just following the news should show you what happens when the availability of hospital beds and respirators get short - people die.
What bothers me is that America went crazy when 3000 people died on 09-11 , but 250000 with covid in a short time should just be a risk that we should accept. What hurts more is that many of these people claim to be Christians - so much for loving your neighbor as yourself.

The whole argument is selfish. Unfortunately, that seems to be the only game these days.

@djeffers78 you will have to be a bit more specific about what you do not understand. There is no debate about Covid being transmitted by contact of droplets and aerosols. There are enough professional studies performed where actual orchestral players and their instruments were tested. A lot of these things have made a careful opening of concert venues possible in Germany.

If for no other reason than the constant reminder that a virus NEVER sleeps makes this bell cover interesting. The study presented in the link is compelling and similar to one conducted with the Bamberg Symphonic a couple of weeks ago.

We should not forget that it is not Covid that causes lockdowns. It is the Covidiots that think that they are immune and just end up getting thousands infected. America is doing an especially poor job of containing because of the "perversion of individual rights". Fact is, if everyone simply practices good hygiene, distancing and wears a mask whenever possible, we could be well on our way to recovery - which has struck the music industry in a devastating way. Everyone has access to facts. The first wave, how various countries handled it - and which countries simply are failing and why.

Selfish attitude is not "propaganda". Infections just do not happen - they are caused. Non-cooperative people are a danger to society in general!

What an inspiring link. Things that brass players can do to protect those around us. I will be making and testing various materials. Details as this unfolds!

Gary,
normally I do not answer your 20 posts answering each of mine or anyone elses (must have something to do with keeping your post count high). In this case I make an exception and quote "So here is my bitch with your bitch ROWUK... how in the hell did you get the idea this was a discussion about using alcohol as a cleaning agent? The posts above are discussing alcohol as a disinfectant:"

Well, what is the title of this thread? I rest my case. How in the hell did I get the idea? Simple reading. The OP even goes into detail in the initial post about much more than disinfection. In fact, what he does is something that I would never do - for various reasons.

Now, unrelated to the content - why do you respond with "how in the hell did you get...". Do you ever look in the mirror (figuratively) and think about how you address people - who you even are? I know that you consider yourself to be a top expert on many things - unfortunately the shitty presentations does reduce the urge to even bother to get involved to about zero.

So, as far as this thread is concerned, I am done too. Don't bother to respond to me, I am not coming back to this thread. There is nothing that you could add to "clear" the situation up. Be sure that what I have said here will not get repeated elsewhere, it is simply not worth my time.

I have been watching this thread for a while and was not sure that I even wanted to get involved...

There is a strong tendency to "want to be right" which is OK, but I would ask if the original question was even the correct one. More on this later.

If we talk about cleaning instruments, surely alcohol - in whatever form is just a small piece of the picture. So, I think that this thread has identified the organic contaminants, but is that all that we are after? If Alcohol does not "remove" the contaminants, could it possibly decrease our chances of getting sick with a quick disinfect?

And here is my bitch with this thread - we have all the expert opinions but have ignored the fact that alcohol is NOT a cleaning agent of choice for the home. Water, a surfactant and some brushes are the primary choice to CLEAN the instruments - get the organic material that gunks up the valves, spit valves, promotes corrosion and would need disinfecting in the first place. Once the instruments are clean, they play best. Alcohol can be used as a disinfecting agent AFTER cleaning. Just like corona, or any surgical activity, we ALWAYS scrub first, THEN disinfect.

Now, we could argue that excessive disinfecting actually is a bigger problem than cure in many ways. Our immune system is capable of developing when exposed to small amounts of "contaminants". Kids that play in the mud seem to be healthier than the ones "protected" by overzealous parents. Could we not have a similar situation with the trumpet?

So, now we have enough information to replace "theory" with practical recommendations:

Many of us use excessive oil to "flush" aerosols and contaminants out of the valve block - instead of cleaning. I generally oil once a week. Mouthpiece and leadpipe/tuning slide get CLEANING with water, dishwashing liquid and a brush at least once a week - perhaps more often if we gig A LOT. The whole horn gets a bath/scrub once a month/quarter/year depending on how much it gets played. That is probably enough maintenance for any healthy trumpeter.

I only use alcohol when someone is trying my mouthpieces or I am in a store trying new mouthpieces out. I have NEVER disinfected my trumpet. If I wipe down the outside on my gold plated instruments, glass cleaner seems to be a really good thing.

So, I think that we have to pick our words carefully, otherwise we are just arguing about NOTHING.