Posts made by ROWUK

I have been watching this thread for a while and was not sure that I even wanted to get involved...

There is a strong tendency to "want to be right" which is OK, but I would ask if the original question was even the correct one. More on this later.

If we talk about cleaning instruments, surely alcohol - in whatever form is just a small piece of the picture. So, I think that this thread has identified the organic contaminants, but is that all that we are after? If Alcohol does not "remove" the contaminants, could it possibly decrease our chances of getting sick with a quick disinfect?

And here is my bitch with this thread - we have all the expert opinions but have ignored the fact that alcohol is NOT a cleaning agent of choice for the home. Water, a surfactant and some brushes are the primary choice to CLEAN the instruments - get the organic material that gunks up the valves, spit valves, promotes corrosion and would need disinfecting in the first place. Once the instruments are clean, they play best. Alcohol can be used as a disinfecting agent AFTER cleaning. Just like corona, or any surgical activity, we ALWAYS scrub first, THEN disinfect.

Now, we could argue that excessive disinfecting actually is a bigger problem than cure in many ways. Our immune system is capable of developing when exposed to small amounts of "contaminants". Kids that play in the mud seem to be healthier than the ones "protected" by overzealous parents. Could we not have a similar situation with the trumpet?

So, now we have enough information to replace "theory" with practical recommendations:

Many of us use excessive oil to "flush" aerosols and contaminants out of the valve block - instead of cleaning. I generally oil once a week. Mouthpiece and leadpipe/tuning slide get CLEANING with water, dishwashing liquid and a brush at least once a week - perhaps more often if we gig A LOT. The whole horn gets a bath/scrub once a month/quarter/year depending on how much it gets played. That is probably enough maintenance for any healthy trumpeter.

I only use alcohol when someone is trying my mouthpieces or I am in a store trying new mouthpieces out. I have NEVER disinfected my trumpet. If I wipe down the outside on my gold plated instruments, glass cleaner seems to be a really good thing.

So, I think that we have to pick our words carefully, otherwise we are just arguing about NOTHING.

"Stiffer" and "faster" are two completely different things.

My experience is that the speed of the valve is based on mass, proper break in, correct oiling and freedom from aerosols/deposits - not spring tension. If any of these factors are not tightly controlled, we can have a stiffer spring, but no increase in performance. Stretching a spring offers no performance increase at all and the possibility that the spring is no longer true which would actually hurt performance.

That being said, I have never had a trumpet after cleaning and adjustment that was too slow with the standard springs. I did have a period where I wanted a stiffer feel - that actually made me more consciously bang the valves down.

Let us remember that there are two parts to valve action - first down, then back up. Stiffer springs can very well slow down the down stroke by increasing resistance to compression. Our fingers do not behave in a linear fashion.

@grune Even if it were "accurate" what does that mean? Can our eyes tell us how a mouthpiece rim will interface to our lips? It only shows the rim and cup - a lot of how a mouthpiece feels is in the bore and backbore however. We are sensitive to contours in 1/1000ths - how "accurately" can a 72dpi -150dpi screen image be.
The comparator for me is evidence that Kanstul measured many typical mouthpieces in a repeatable way. That makes it probably the best database out there. I can say however that the Kanstul Monette copies had nothing to do with the real thing - from "feeling" or playing characteristics. I am sure that the rim and cup were accurately measured - there is more to feel than the rim and cup...

I have made some interesting discoveries during my career.

1. A gold plated mouthpiece "feels" bigger than the same size silver plated
2. a well used mouthpiece with a scratched rim feels bigger than a brand new shiny one of the same size
3. many players are dependent on a bit of "sharpness" of the inner rim for "grip". That dependency can be greatly reduced after weeks to months of embouchure building (Stamp/Irons)
4. shallow cups greatly increase the need to critically match horn and mouthpiece - especially in regard to intonation
5. beginners benefit from "sharper" rims as the vibrating surface is more clearly defined. Once the student has reached a certain degree of proficiency, it is often worth experimenting with less sharp feeling models
6. it is impossible to look at a rim and predict anything.

What an original way to get brass players to look at a specific brand never before mentioned at this site. The OP didn't say anything about what kind of horns, mouthpieces or accessories that they wanted to carry. Sounds almost like they were trying to sneak this in as an ad!

The 4 trumpet case seems to be pretty flimsy inside and expensive on the outside. The dealers that I frequent do not carry it, so I cannot offer anything special other than there is nothing that draws special attention to any detail.

This is not the first time that Moshe/Morris started a thread like this - with similar outcome (disappearing for a while/not getting the result that he wanted).
He thought that he was being "clever" by asking for a prayer request by going into great detail about not asking for a prayer request. That was 100% sure to draw the responses that it did. Not very clever.

A prayer request in my world is not a strictly "religious" activity. If he had simply come out with his personal challenge and ask us to keep him in our thoughts and prayers, everything would go its course. The thread would be somewhere else today. Life is full of challenges and having "community" to help deal with them is a special thing. It is a two way street however. Those that insist on being the "underdog" generally end up there without outside help. Open internet forums are generally not very good at psychological challenges as it is far too easy to get off track - then the thread owner is no longer the center of attention - or help. That is not a deficiency in the community. It is simply online life with very "random" approaches based of our form for that specific point in time.

If we want to reap interest, we have to invest. That is true of home, work or online forums.

I hope that Morris got the support that he was looking for. At TrumpetMaster he would pop up in irregular intervals and then go away, sometimes on his own, sometime with help.

@barliman2001 It is great to know that you were not homely enough - but someone else was qualified!

Thanks for the link! I was not aware that there was a recording using real natural trumpets. Most of the recordings these days use "baroque" trumpets - the most modern in the trumpet family (although they claim "historic), with holes for intonation correction and security.

Regardless how hard the times are, when it is over, people will look and see who "made the best" out of it and who just bitched. I can't speak for anyone else, but throughout the hard times in my life, staying in motion kept my sense of self worth and gave me skills to take advantage of the few opportunities left. Even during these tough times, I have a gig every weekend at old peoples homes. I have been playing since Easter. They are waiting for me - every Sunday. 4 locations, Sunday mornings. It is AWESOME!

Last time that I looked, Al Cass was not synthetic. I am also not aware of a valve oil that only lasts 2 hours. The volatility is such that one working day is normal. At that point, the "thin" stuff has evaporated, but the rest is still there - we are not down to bare metal.

My experience is that spirit based oils last a day, then the action is not as "fast". Synthetics last a week BUT as the trumpet has no lubrication system except "reoil", the aerosols from our breath are flushed out during oiling - making the full week with synthetics a double edged sword.

Our trumpets talk to us. When we learn to listen, we give them the care that they need.

I have used LaTromba T2 for as long as I can remember. I have tried out Ultra Pure, Monster, Yamaha, Bach, Roche Thomas, Al Cass, Hetmans and they are all great - I just get a good deal when I buy a case of LaTromba T2 here in Germany. It is cheaper in bulk.

@administrator said in Notes I wish were there!:

R. Strauss - Eine Alpensinfonie, Auf dem Gipfel concert no. 86:

How I wish Strauss had inserted a high E there. He expected his 3rd trumpet to play fortissimo G, C & D, surely it would not have been a stretch to insert a 1/2 note E. This bothers me every time I hear a recording of the piece!!

In German orchestras the 3rd trumpet is often a 3rd/assistant 1st trumpet position. The player would have been capable.
He therefore did not leave the E out because of the player not being able, he simply did not want that climax there. Just think about all of the attempts to get to the top of Mt. Everest. Strauss documenting not getting to the top (without death or a train wreck) is significant.

@Brian-Moon
is a joke thread really the place for another Evolutionist vs Creationist discourse? I think the topic deserves its own thread - with the chance that it will get shut down when (not if) it gets louder. It is almost religion - regardless of what side of the issue one is on. We did have this issue at TrumpetMaster too...

As far as the NY Times "consistently" lying, that is certainly open to interpretation if reporting someone elses findings is lying or reporting. Or if it is the reader that injects other arguments...

I have no knowledge of jellyfish, so I asked Dr. Google what science there is. There is a wealth of research and plenty of non ambiguous "proof". It was an interesting 30 minutes!

The reference to Utah specifies the Cambrian era (in fact 500 million years ago):
Van Iten, Heyo; Marques, Antonio C.; Leme, Juliana de Moraes; Pacheco, Mirian L. A. Forancelli; Simões, Marcello Guimaraes (2014). Smith, Andrew (ed.). "Origin and early diversification of the phylum Cnidaria Verrill: major developments in the analysis of the taxon's Proterozoic-Cambrian history". Palaeontology. 57 (4): 677–690. doi:10.1111/pala.12116.

A more precise date using modern radiometric dating yield a date of 541 ± 0.3 million years ago.
Gradstein, F.M.; Ogg, J.G.; Smith, A.G.; et al. (2004). A Geologic Time Scale 2004. Cambridge University Press.

None of the science that I mentioned delves into any divine creation or "evolution" of the jellyfish from lower forms. It does show a unique trait that makes a specific type more or less immortal. Here is a non-scientific site that is certainly entertaining: https://immortal-jellyfish.com

Let's make this thread funny again...

@Kehaulani Actually, my brand new lower dentures are making me think a lot about where my tongue is...

@Kehaulani I am probably 100% dogmatic (not periodic). I like the pleasures of doing things that work. Reaching goals, getting stuff done just appeals to me and the straight and narrow have served me well.

The pedal tone is actually the fundamental, everything else are partials.

Traditionally, octaves have ALWAYS started on C. The 4 foot/8 foot/16 foot registers all refer to concert C. A 32 foot organ pipe refers to a C.

If C is the start of an octave, everything else is clear once we decide what to call the C. Here is where tradition has left us with multiple options. C0 to C9 is very clear, but makes it difficult to brag to the uneducated.

For a trumpeter, it is common to refer to pedal C (2nd space bass clef), low C(one line below the treble clef), mid C (third space), high C(2 ledger lines above the treble clef) and double C (an octave above that).

The devils advocate would say that the typical trumpeters double C is only a high concert Bb...

To confuse the hell out of this: Tubas are sold as BB or CC tubas - double Bb or double C;-)

@Kehaulani said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

This is almost Zen like. Looking at the finger pointing at the moon instead of looking at the moon, itself.

We seem to spend an awful amount of time talking about how we should talk about things trumpet/musical rather than talking about trumpet/music itself.

I certainly agee Kehaulani. The art of communication (lets say between a teacher and student) is vital in finding common ground to lead the student to better awareness on how to build better habits. With Corona, we see increased attempts to give lessons on line. I really question how effective this can be when I am not in the same room with the student.

Just imagine a student asking how to produce vibrato - in a 1 on 1 lesson, in a lesson with 6 teachers each with a different opinion, in trumpet forum.
The single teacher in a private lesson would (hopefully) demonstrate, explain the context, history of the different types - as well as showing that certain music does not need it at all.
The group of qualified teachers “compete”. The lead trumpeter has his thing, the symphonic player another, the teacher without a lot of practical experience yet another - even although all of those teachers have a valid opinion, what does the student understand?
Advice in a forum is a two edged sword as advice appears often with no regard to what the student even can understand or the qualifications. When the posters with advice disagree, it can get emotional - especially with “snipers”, “lack of psychologically sound moderation”, frustration, differing levels of qualification, class clown. It is a question if everyone posts thoughtfully, if they post to get their post count higher, if they need the forum as a vent for personal issues. I see on most posts that the original posters intention is lost at the latest by 4 or 5 “answers”.

Let us take another instance: I had an accident last year and lost some teeth. I now have full lower dentures - but never openly asked for advice here. Why is that? To be honest - for the reason that some liked my posting at TrumpetMaster - I asked questions first to get to the root of the issue instead of just vomiting an answer immediately. Are there any members that have a process for comparing dental creme including how long it lasts, resistance to coffee breaks, strength of the bond vs time, research on Articulation against plastic instead of teeth, I could think of many more issues to compare. I am sure that from the first 10 posts 6 would frustrate me. That certainly would influence my ability to keep my “civility” at the lowest common denominator. Maybe I have the wrong expectations. When I go to a doctor with a pain, I am not looking for a pill or a couple of days off. If the pain is acute, perhaps treatment to gain time until the proper diagnosis is possible.

The discussion here in this thread is exemplary of something far different. No one asked why escalation occured - “Keep it Civil” is just a bandaid - a lame attempt to keep an infection from spreading. I would insist that a band aid on top of a festering wound is not the best solution - although for a while, out of sight is out of mind. We may need some time until a diagnosis is possible, but I do not see the questions even being asked.

Believe me, the loss of TrumpetMaster was a good and bad thing. For me, it means a lot less time invested (which is good for many other things). Even although many of the same members moved here, the “depth” and “color” are the issues that I see as needing the most attention.

We could start with what a member has to tolerate instead of what ball and chain membership applies.
Example:
My definition of “ignorant” is not an insult, rather a description of someone that chooses to IGNORE the truth. If I call someone IGNORANT, it is a straight to the core issue description of lack of base to communicate. I am sure that me calling someone ignorant here would be considered “not civil”. However - when I do use the label ignorant, the discussion generally goes immediately where I want it to - addressing the problem (ignorance) instead of continuing the drivel.

Keeping it civil is a result, not a rule in my world. In college, there were ways to challenge a professor and ways to get thrown out of class. They were based on procedure, respect and content.

@OldSchoolEuph said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

@ROWUK - I always found disagreeing with you on TM both entertaining and enlightening. (and sometimes quite a challenge as we dont necessarily disagree on much). The back & forth of differing experience and differing understandings helps root out truth - I will always support that, and found you to be one of the most valuable contributors in that regard.

So the issue is civility. Is it not possible to moderate a forum in such manner as civil discourse, civil debate, is possible? The only challenge is for a moderator to manage to suppress his/her own bias - which some do better at than others.

I fully agree - but discourse like range must be practiced until both sides find equilibrium (winning or losing all the time is not fun...). Squelching the post early only means that there is a winner (the admin or moderator) and a loser (devils advocate?). That is NOT a good situation in my view.

I have a view that if on earth war outbreaks, the politicians have failed - not the military. The same goes here. If we can't "reel a member in", is the problem the member, the tactical exercize or a problem with the community. I have a personal feeling about this, but am not stuck on any of those choices.

Let's take this thread. I have posted some pretty clear thoughts - no admin or moderator has engaged those thoughts. Why is that? I mention "class clowning" threads - of course I have specific members in mind - no response. What does this place stand for? Do we even have a direction or is this just a trumpet lounge with no HOT coffee, cold beer, Whiskey, Cognac or Schnaps - just warm to cool sweet mixed drinks? Well, I am diabetic and sugar is not one of my "vices" (it wasn't at TrumpetMaster either). I happen to like hot, cold and taste explosions on the tongue.

In the end, I do ask why I come back here. I am not even motivated to challenge other posts because I know how they will develop if I try. That was generally not the case in the "old world". There were a lot of "challenges" some died due to lack of argumentation, some ran in circles for months, some got "ugly" because one of the parties felt "attacked" or unfairly treated (probably my bad back then although I do have an opinion about insecure people on the internet). Some resulted in apologies. In the "uncivil threads" only the 4 letter words were dealt with. Issues concerning prejudice or hidden racism were more difficult.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing any member, admin or moderator. I am criticizing what I see: paler shades of gray. If that is what the community wants, cool for the community. I am trying to get to the meat of the issue here. I do expect more response - especially from those with "more power". Luke warm is NOT an option (neither is war).

My problem is that I am not really motivated. Many threads develop in a similar way:

1. original post
2. a couple of thank yous
3. maybe a subject supporting post or two
4. Class clown attack that has nothing to do with the original content
5. Derailed post can go just about anywhere - but not without devils advocate posting

I can say that the feeling is like with certain teachers that I had - for one or 2 lessons. My general feeling here is of suffocation. Extreme efforts (in my opinion) are being made to keep it "clean", "friendly", "family". The general feeling is not digging in and accepting reality, rather a lavender painted over.

I a pretty sure that if I started posting like I feel, that the threads would last 2 days. In that case, why bother. At Trumpetmaster I made a point about getting to the meat immediately. Here we seem to be afraid of blood.

To be honest, I am not in favor of locking threads down so quickly - or deleting them (certain language does deserve an edit however). The underlying problems remain and most issues are not “one sided”. So, we now have a winner and a loser, not a solution. Collision of personalities is real life.

It doesn’t matter, I am spending ever less time here. If you all are content with ever more pale shades of grey, good luck on building membership.

Even so, without a degree, you won’t even get an Army Band job.
The problem is not the degree, it is the attitude that someone can get. Once you think that you are something special, the bar for acceptance goes way up. If you have the degree and are humble, you simply have prepared well!

I say YES, if you can, you should. Everything that we learn can’t be taken away - even learning to be an ass.

Prepare, stay humble, work hard and thoughtfully, be generous. It pays off in ways no bean counter can quantify!

Maybe a troll that was not successful in getting us riled up...
Or better: someone with a life and the trumpet in proper perspective
Or: ran to his teacher and explained what he understood - pissing the teacher off, who told him never to come back
Or: an internet Zapper with a 2 day attention span but no identity.

If someone needs to change their name, we must ask why - do they fear that we will google it and discover wherelse they visit? Pretty naive to believe that the name change is good for anything...