Posts made by ROWUK

@Kehaulani Actually, my brand new lower dentures are making me think a lot about where my tongue is...

@Kehaulani I am probably 100% dogmatic (not periodic). I like the pleasures of doing things that work. Reaching goals, getting stuff done just appeals to me and the straight and narrow have served me well.

The pedal tone is actually the fundamental, everything else are partials.

Traditionally, octaves have ALWAYS started on C. The 4 foot/8 foot/16 foot registers all refer to concert C. A 32 foot organ pipe refers to a C.

If C is the start of an octave, everything else is clear once we decide what to call the C. Here is where tradition has left us with multiple options. C0 to C9 is very clear, but makes it difficult to brag to the uneducated.

For a trumpeter, it is common to refer to pedal C (2nd space bass clef), low C(one line below the treble clef), mid C (third space), high C(2 ledger lines above the treble clef) and double C (an octave above that).

The devils advocate would say that the typical trumpeters double C is only a high concert Bb...

To confuse the hell out of this: Tubas are sold as BB or CC tubas - double Bb or double C;-)

@Kehaulani said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

This is almost Zen like. Looking at the finger pointing at the moon instead of looking at the moon, itself.

We seem to spend an awful amount of time talking about how we should talk about things trumpet/musical rather than talking about trumpet/music itself.

I certainly agee Kehaulani. The art of communication (lets say between a teacher and student) is vital in finding common ground to lead the student to better awareness on how to build better habits. With Corona, we see increased attempts to give lessons on line. I really question how effective this can be when I am not in the same room with the student.

Just imagine a student asking how to produce vibrato - in a 1 on 1 lesson, in a lesson with 6 teachers each with a different opinion, in trumpet forum.
The single teacher in a private lesson would (hopefully) demonstrate, explain the context, history of the different types - as well as showing that certain music does not need it at all.
The group of qualified teachers “compete”. The lead trumpeter has his thing, the symphonic player another, the teacher without a lot of practical experience yet another - even although all of those teachers have a valid opinion, what does the student understand?
Advice in a forum is a two edged sword as advice appears often with no regard to what the student even can understand or the qualifications. When the posters with advice disagree, it can get emotional - especially with “snipers”, “lack of psychologically sound moderation”, frustration, differing levels of qualification, class clown. It is a question if everyone posts thoughtfully, if they post to get their post count higher, if they need the forum as a vent for personal issues. I see on most posts that the original posters intention is lost at the latest by 4 or 5 “answers”.

Let us take another instance: I had an accident last year and lost some teeth. I now have full lower dentures - but never openly asked for advice here. Why is that? To be honest - for the reason that some liked my posting at TrumpetMaster - I asked questions first to get to the root of the issue instead of just vomiting an answer immediately. Are there any members that have a process for comparing dental creme including how long it lasts, resistance to coffee breaks, strength of the bond vs time, research on Articulation against plastic instead of teeth, I could think of many more issues to compare. I am sure that from the first 10 posts 6 would frustrate me. That certainly would influence my ability to keep my “civility” at the lowest common denominator. Maybe I have the wrong expectations. When I go to a doctor with a pain, I am not looking for a pill or a couple of days off. If the pain is acute, perhaps treatment to gain time until the proper diagnosis is possible.

The discussion here in this thread is exemplary of something far different. No one asked why escalation occured - “Keep it Civil” is just a bandaid - a lame attempt to keep an infection from spreading. I would insist that a band aid on top of a festering wound is not the best solution - although for a while, out of sight is out of mind. We may need some time until a diagnosis is possible, but I do not see the questions even being asked.

Believe me, the loss of TrumpetMaster was a good and bad thing. For me, it means a lot less time invested (which is good for many other things). Even although many of the same members moved here, the “depth” and “color” are the issues that I see as needing the most attention.

We could start with what a member has to tolerate instead of what ball and chain membership applies.
Example:
My definition of “ignorant” is not an insult, rather a description of someone that chooses to IGNORE the truth. If I call someone IGNORANT, it is a straight to the core issue description of lack of base to communicate. I am sure that me calling someone ignorant here would be considered “not civil”. However - when I do use the label ignorant, the discussion generally goes immediately where I want it to - addressing the problem (ignorance) instead of continuing the drivel.

Keeping it civil is a result, not a rule in my world. In college, there were ways to challenge a professor and ways to get thrown out of class. They were based on procedure, respect and content.

@OldSchoolEuph said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

@ROWUK - I always found disagreeing with you on TM both entertaining and enlightening. (and sometimes quite a challenge as we dont necessarily disagree on much). The back & forth of differing experience and differing understandings helps root out truth - I will always support that, and found you to be one of the most valuable contributors in that regard.

So the issue is civility. Is it not possible to moderate a forum in such manner as civil discourse, civil debate, is possible? The only challenge is for a moderator to manage to suppress his/her own bias - which some do better at than others.

I fully agree - but discourse like range must be practiced until both sides find equilibrium (winning or losing all the time is not fun...). Squelching the post early only means that there is a winner (the admin or moderator) and a loser (devils advocate?). That is NOT a good situation in my view.

I have a view that if on earth war outbreaks, the politicians have failed - not the military. The same goes here. If we can't "reel a member in", is the problem the member, the tactical exercize or a problem with the community. I have a personal feeling about this, but am not stuck on any of those choices.

Let's take this thread. I have posted some pretty clear thoughts - no admin or moderator has engaged those thoughts. Why is that? I mention "class clowning" threads - of course I have specific members in mind - no response. What does this place stand for? Do we even have a direction or is this just a trumpet lounge with no HOT coffee, cold beer, Whiskey, Cognac or Schnaps - just warm to cool sweet mixed drinks? Well, I am diabetic and sugar is not one of my "vices" (it wasn't at TrumpetMaster either). I happen to like hot, cold and taste explosions on the tongue.

In the end, I do ask why I come back here. I am not even motivated to challenge other posts because I know how they will develop if I try. That was generally not the case in the "old world". There were a lot of "challenges" some died due to lack of argumentation, some ran in circles for months, some got "ugly" because one of the parties felt "attacked" or unfairly treated (probably my bad back then although I do have an opinion about insecure people on the internet). Some resulted in apologies. In the "uncivil threads" only the 4 letter words were dealt with. Issues concerning prejudice or hidden racism were more difficult.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing any member, admin or moderator. I am criticizing what I see: paler shades of gray. If that is what the community wants, cool for the community. I am trying to get to the meat of the issue here. I do expect more response - especially from those with "more power". Luke warm is NOT an option (neither is war).

My problem is that I am not really motivated. Many threads develop in a similar way:

1. original post
2. a couple of thank yous
3. maybe a subject supporting post or two
4. Class clown attack that has nothing to do with the original content
5. Derailed post can go just about anywhere - but not without devils advocate posting

I can say that the feeling is like with certain teachers that I had - for one or 2 lessons. My general feeling here is of suffocation. Extreme efforts (in my opinion) are being made to keep it "clean", "friendly", "family". The general feeling is not digging in and accepting reality, rather a lavender painted over.

I a pretty sure that if I started posting like I feel, that the threads would last 2 days. In that case, why bother. At Trumpetmaster I made a point about getting to the meat immediately. Here we seem to be afraid of blood.

To be honest, I am not in favor of locking threads down so quickly - or deleting them (certain language does deserve an edit however). The underlying problems remain and most issues are not “one sided”. So, we now have a winner and a loser, not a solution. Collision of personalities is real life.

It doesn’t matter, I am spending ever less time here. If you all are content with ever more pale shades of grey, good luck on building membership.

Even so, without a degree, you won’t even get an Army Band job.
The problem is not the degree, it is the attitude that someone can get. Once you think that you are something special, the bar for acceptance goes way up. If you have the degree and are humble, you simply have prepared well!

I say YES, if you can, you should. Everything that we learn can’t be taken away - even learning to be an ass.

Prepare, stay humble, work hard and thoughtfully, be generous. It pays off in ways no bean counter can quantify!

Maybe a troll that was not successful in getting us riled up...
Or better: someone with a life and the trumpet in proper perspective
Or: ran to his teacher and explained what he understood - pissing the teacher off, who told him never to come back
Or: an internet Zapper with a 2 day attention span but no identity.

If someone needs to change their name, we must ask why - do they fear that we will google it and discover wherelse they visit? Pretty naive to believe that the name change is good for anything...

St. Jacome is the original "velocity studies" book for the cornet. It is most certainly a method dedicated to perfection by repetition. It has been one of my staples for the last 45 years (I just happen to think in the way that the book is intended)

Just like the Arban, it was not intended for "self study" rather conservatory study with a professor monitoring.

I am really amazed how stupid people can be. I mean, this little bit of "lockdown" is NOTHING compared to the sacrifices from many other events in human history. We basically have all the amenities of modern life - and are very ungrateful.

Even if we view this in respect to loving our neighbors as ourselves, we realize how selfish and unchristian this behavior is.

Even talking about how Covid has caused restriction of "our constitutional rights" shows how perverted many Americans view of freedom is.

To be honest, there is nowhere else that I would like to be than in Germany right now (well, New Zealand is also on the same page). At least there is responsible behavior and government listening to the medical community instead of morons dictating stupidity!

I do not know of one single musician with nothing to work on. This is a wonderful opportunity to break normal lifes lockdown on our grooming of basics.

@Dr-Mark I learn that we need an intimate connection to the BASICS - regardless of how advanced certain aspects of our playing might be.

@Kehaulani said in Seeking input on Rules:

Well, as I read it, it's not a pursuit for perfection, rather an arbitrary time frame to just meet the challenge of doing what one can do within a timef frame; something to do for fun and challenge during this virus period to beat the boredom.

Never waste a note...

Very good masterclass. Jack is already an amazing player and Håkan still was able to take him to a higher level - with BASICS! Breathing according to plan, rhythm and concept of tone are not "high level" things that wee need a master for - or do we?

Basically we can listen to anything that Håkan does. He has earned that respect!

The only downside - Jack asked no questions...

I certainly need more than a week for any of the Charlier trancendental etudes. It has been on my stand for about 2 months and I get about 30 min/day with it. So much to tie together.

@Kehaulani You probably are right about my "standards" although I have been known to watch TV while holding out longtones (especially recently where I got full lower dentures and needed to acclimate - slowly and with as little pain as possible-to those listening).

So it also is with embedding the picc between the serious big horn sessions. This keeps our chops "grounded" and prevents or at least limits the possibility of bad habits.

As I said, the picc has traditionally been the money maker and I can recommend it to any medium to advanced players (my students also get sessions of picc playing in irregular intervals).

Even more important, is for someone new here to realize that there are players here that play just about every repertory - at very high levels. That should be kept in mind when speaking of "promising", "good", "bad" or "just for fun".

My take on the piccolo trumpet? It is simply another trumpet. Any instrument needs time to figure out what it can do. That means IF we are interested, we start slowly and build basic skills - then move to more difficult things.

Samurai, you documented a VERY serious weakness in your playing. "I recently borrowed a piccolo trumpet from a friend and tried playing "Bolero" and "Exhibition"."
What did you expect? You claim to have played it well on the C trumpet - do you think that your definition of "well" is the same as mine (serious question). Would the truth be more like "I barely get through with the C but crash with the picc"? I have played first trumpet often enough on Pictures - it is serious work even for professional players.

I use a G trumpet with a big bell for Schmüyle (everything else on the Bb or C depending on the orchestra. He was a skinny, lying, cheating, nervous runt and probably owed Samuel Goldenberg money. That nervousness is not what I associate with the picc. I play the high Bolero part on the D trumpet.

The picc is/was an incredible opportunity for me to earn money on church gigs - supporting even until today, my trumpet collecting.

When I get a new trumpet, I stay in the comfort zone for as long as it takes to get acclimated. With the Bb picc that was high C above the staff. I played easy oboe and recorder chamber music at the beginning. Then came "glorious C and D major baroque trumpet literature". I always warmed up with the big trumpet and finished the practice session with the same. The picc was "embedded" in between. Clarke, Arban - all of the same routines - just up an octave. I do not post about my adventures until I have figured out how things work. I certainly do not assume that anyone is impressed by the "hard music" that I claim to have tried.

So, back to the serious weakness: when we approach something, we need to start slowly. We are creatures of habit and if we jump into the deep end, we usually develop bad habits that are much more difficult to cure later. Thoughtful practice means that we know our strengths and weaknesses and practice to perfect. With THIS attitude, the picc is a project for a month or two before we can start to make music. After that, we simply practice it along with our other instruments and keep balance. It is just another trumpet.

Do we really have a "problem" or is life in general simply a challenge sometimes?

To be honest, one of the things that irritated me most at Trumpetmaster was the lowest common denominator thinking for conflict resolution. I was often accused of "abusing" my moderator position when having an opinion. There were enough members that felt "attacked" when called out on something controversial that they posted. My life was threatened twice and I had to go to the police station (in Germany) twice to make statements (different issues).

Sure, there are certain things that I consider "below the belt". Do I need "rules" to deal with that? (no) Do such rules simply move the attitude and danger "underground". (yes)

I think that lowest common denominator is the end of any society. I think that vehemently disagreeing is not a bad thing. As this is an open internet forum, there is no law requiring TrumpetBoards to let everyone in or even throwing them out with no reason given.

Those that want a haven on the internet for free that bends to the whim of the day simply should stay off line.

In theory, membership could be by audition with a probationary period - just like with any professional symphony orchestra on the planet.

I do not have to like anyone elses opinion. I certainly treasure their ability to have it however.

My personal opinion is that what is missing is not "rules", it is respect. By respect, I mean finding out what qualifications one has to make a definitive statement, and if the qualifications are "high enough", treating those statements as well founded - even if I do not agree. Unfortunately there are a lot of people with no qualifications that are powerful posters - but with no redeeming value. Those people would not DREAM of standing up at ITG and saying the same things that they post.

Have a great week. Stay healthy!

Robin

Believe me, they do not even invite people without practical experience in other professional orchestras. Their choice of excerpts will be used to define how "all round" the candidate is. Even if they win the audition, they will have 6-12 months "Probezeit" after which they get a permanent contract. The big orchestras are not making very many mistakes in the audition process.