Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?
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I really like all brands!
My absolute favorite for whatever reason is Holton. I have a nice little collection of Holtons
The Mendini drove me nuts with its valve issue. I guess with that one I kinda did the lapping in at home with many a toothpaste strokes.
The Cecilio 3 was an absolutely stunning instrument. Just beautiful, and it played as nicely as my HS Holton t602. After I got my B47 and joined TM I heard of something called a C trumpet! WOW I thought. I have an idea. So now I have a kinda C trumpet with a rimless bell. And I’ve got more plans
The tt500ses is just plain nice. Nothing at all that this trumpet can’t do well. And it looks cool to boot.
The Brasspire has seen 3 NABBA competitions and 2 Dublin brass festivals competitions. One season it played front row. On a Wick 4 this baby is a cornet. On a 5b it is a cornet. I’m very happy with it. The trigger system is a bit weird but works fine and is easily disassembled and reassembled for cleaning-which I’ve only done once. I know.
Nothing has broken on any of them and the bell of the mendini has been WORKED.
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Even the $79 Chinese specials are better than they were even 10 years ago. Indian made valves are the ugliest things ever though. Rough and pitted even.
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I’ve been very interested in buying some of the sub $90 horns. I bet with a little diligence and care the can be quite serviceable.
Even tradesmen tools from China are becoming quality tools. I haven’t carried Klien pliers for a long time. For about a year now I’ve had a Harbor Freight Doyle set and they are legit. $12vs$40.....
I’m going to try to get a good deal no matter what. -
They ship them in bags. Unless in a case. Got one of each. Not bad at all. My sister works for Klien. She likes it too, so give them some business;)
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I do not understand the excitement. Is horn X a rip off? Well, that depends on our definition.
Most „civilized“ countries have trademark laws. If a manufacturer breaks those laws, then they pay the price. That does not make the product bad or the price point irrelevant.
What bothers me most, is the selective use of emotion. Why should anyone be pissed off when a company in China or elsewhere fills an economic need? Are we mad because the word „Stradivarius“ has been used twice? Are we mad because a band teacher should „know better“? Are we just mad because that is the current popular political vent?I see nothing wrong with this horn. I personally have a high performance standard for my own instruments not yet filled by a cheap instrument and I discuss this issue openly with my students and their parents. If they make another decision, fine. The most important thing is that the student enjoys playing and practicing. Everything else rests on those shoulders.
In 1975 a Bach trumpet was <$500 at Giardinellis in New York. I wish that salaries had inflated this much....
Kodak learned the hard way what happens when the market and the product no longer match. The digital revolution blew them out of the water. How many manufacturers of instruments are now dead. Why are they dead?
To be honest, for many kids, it is the cheap horn or no horn. They are not interested in flea market bargains on „vintage“ instruments with 50% lacquer.
Let us not let elitism screw up something very precious. There can be value at this level.
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@ROWUK said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:
Kodak learned the hard way what happens when the market and the product no longer match. The digital revolution blew them out of the water. How many manufacturers of instruments are now dead. Why are they dead?
This reminds me of a talk I gave to the Victorian Leica Society about 20 years on aspects of photography I was persuing at that time and equipment I had built, I concluded my talk by holding a page from a magazine advertising the first Kodak Digital Camera with Docking station, when I said "this is the future of photography", I was greeted with laughter and derision.
The reasons for the demise of many trumpet makers I think are many, lack of skilled workforce, rising costs of labour, shrinking market, takeovers by corperate raiders and others.
Just some thoughts.Regards, Stuart.
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@stumac I think that most are dead because the market did not want what they were making - for the price that they were asking. Value is an interesting concept and it is still exists today. When businesses expand, they take a risk. When businesses have more overhead than turnover, they have a problem.
I admire the Chinese for their granular production. The same production line can build a $50 or a $1000 trumpet. The quality is determined by the person placing the order not the artisan. I have played prototypes of both. The knowledgable reseller does not HAVE to screw their customer.
On another side, I bought a 3d printer and have been printing mouthpieces. They are WAY TOO GOOD. I am not selling or taking orders, I am learning and offering my students the possibility to play before they pay. They can evaluate what the difference between an A, B, C, D, E cup is as well as backbores and rim shapes. Then they buy what works. There has not been much R&D on natural trumpet mouthpieces - just copies made of historical ones without knowledge if they were „high performance“ back then. For less than $1, I can experiment until I am happy. Then the 3d model can be made in silver, brass, copper or any printable plastic. Will this change the mouthpiece market - I certainly believe so. Print on demand could be a great advantage to a pro shop. No appreciable inventory. The printers with suitable resolution are available. Kelly mouthpiece anyone?
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@ROWUK said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:
@stumac I think that most are dead because the market did not want what they were making - for the price that they were asking. Value is an interesting concept and it is still exists today. When businesses expand, they take a risk. When businesses have more overhead than turnover, they have a problem.
I admire the Chinese for their granular production. The same production line can build a $50 or a $1000 trumpet. The quality is determined by the person placing the order not the artisan. I have played prototypes of both. The knowledgable reseller does not HAVE to screw their customer.
On another side, I bought a 3d printer and have been printing mouthpieces. They are WAY TOO GOOD. I am not selling or taking orders, I am learning and offering my students the possibility to play before they pay. They can evaluate what the difference between an A, B, C, D, E cup is as well as backbores and rim shapes. Then they buy what works. There has not been much R&D on natural trumpet mouthpieces - just copies made of historical ones without knowledge if they were „high performance“ back then. For less than $1, I can experiment until I am happy. Then the 3d model can be made in silver, brass, copper or any printable plastic. Will this change the mouthpiece market - I certainly believe so. Print on demand could be a great advantage to a pro shop. No appreciable inventory. The printers with suitable resolution are available. Kelly mouthpiece anyone?
Agree. Advancements in 3D tech mean printing [sinter] in many metals is only a matter of time. Silver-alloy may be soon forthcoming.
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Rowuk, what did the 3D printer cost?
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@N1684T Around $400.00
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@ROWUK said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:
@N1684T Around $400.00
Sounds like a good investment. I have heard of 3D "metal" printers -- does that actually exist?
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@administrator
They cost a lot more than $400.https://www.aniwaa.com/best-of/3d-printers/best-metal-3d-printer/
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Whoa. That is insanely pricey.
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The day they make carbon fiber printers is the day in which I will believe that pigs fly
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Come to Cincinnati. We’re known for our flying pigs
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The average Chinese worker in manufacturing made > $10,500 in 2018. In 2010 it was>$4500. That is what manufacturers have to deal with when they pay employees a decent living wage. If the Chinese work a 40 hr. week, in 2010 that was >$2.35 an hour. In 2018, that's up to about >$5.25 an hour. China uses cheap, dare I sat "slave" labor working in real sweatshops to make these reverse engineered horns. It's not just horns too. It's hard to compete when the most expensive part of a product is labor. If China reverse engineers a Monette, you might be able to get one for > $1000! Here's to unfair trade and labor practices!
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Those are "slave labor" wages only when compared to ours. How do they compare to their own cost of living?
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani
Yessir you are correct.
What were the conditions of the industrial boom in the US? Terrible as far as I’ve read.$5.25 an hour is $2 more than I entered the work force at
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@Kehaulani said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:
Those are "slave labor" wages only when compared to ours. How do they compare to their own cost of living?
That's not the relevant point. Kanstul, for example, couldn't compete with the "slave" labor force of Chinese manufacturers, if indeed that is what pushed them over the edge. No one in this country can live off > $10,500 annual income. I've spent that much a year alone in fuel costs for my equipment. No US manufacturer can get away with paying any employee this paltry sum. This is an interesting read about how China gets away with low, low prices. It is 3 years old so some things are beginning to change for the better.
