Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?

[ACB]

Here's a very important video IMO to all the parents out there thinking they are going to get a great deal on horn.

Please be careful out there everyone!!!

[J. Jericho]

As I commented on YT, the piping on the case signifies this trumpet as the Cheddar Cheesy model. The features of this instrument verify this classification.

[Kehaulani]

A worthy caution, but the resulting sound is good. If the blow, intonation, etc. is Bach-like then this video, to me, is 1) a tribute to some great playing and, 2) appears to be a good deal, law and morality aside. I totally agree that the rip-off factor is seedy but the video sort f works at cross-purpose.

[mafields627]

As a band director, I would hate to have to burst some kid's bubble thinking they had scored a great horn. There's always a lot of excitement that comes with those purchases. However, I also know what the results will be down the road. Some of them do sound pretty good until they start needing repairs. For some reason, though, parents often refuse to consult their student's band director before making these sorts of purchases.

[Robrtx]

Sometimes shady sellers can be quite crafty in how they word their description as well, such as adding "replica" someplace in the add using a 1 font.

Definitely a good reason to know the seller at least by reputation.....

[Kehaulani]

Yeah. I remember the feeling of having a kid show up for a lesson, surprisingly, with a new horn, a "bargain" off of the internet or by some hugry-to-sell something salesman, without talking it over with me, first.

ONE EXTREME WAS A SAX STUDENT OF MINE WHO GOT A PRETTY DECENT SAX THEN ENCASED IT IN A CLOTH GIG BAG BECAUSE IT LOOKED COOL. AN INSTRUMENT AS VULNERABLE AS A SAX BEING CARRIED TO AND FROM ON A CROWDED SCHOOL BUS? GIVE ME A BREAK.

p.s. I am sight-challenged and hit the Caps key. Don't want to type it again. Not shouting intended.

[TrueTone]

@Kehaulani said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:

Yeah. I remember the feeling of having a kid show up, surprisingly, with a new horn, a "bargan" off of the internet r by some hugry-to-sell something salesman, without talking it over with me.

ONE EXTREME WAS A SAX STUDENT OF MINE WHO GOT A PRETTY DECENT SAX THEN ENCASED IT IN CLOTH GIG BAG BECAUSE IT LOOKED COOL. AN INSTRUMENT AS VULNERABLE AS A SAX BEING CARRIED TO AND FROM ON A CROWDED SCHOOL BUS? GIVE ME A BREAK.

p.s. I am sight-challenged and hit the Caps key. Don't want to type it again. Not shouting.

Hey, it means their tech has job insurance!
While I'm pretty careful at looking over photos of what I buy online, I do think I have been really lucky in terms of not being ripped off by any seller yet. However, for most things I would typically ask my director (or now, prfoessor for each instrument, as I have access to all of them) what his (and now each professor) thoughts of the majority of them, other than the stuff I bought on the spot. (Which typically is stuff that was very cheap, like the Buffet R13 Clarinet I bought for about $200, or my Holton Stratodyne for $50 I got last year.)
I wouldn't say it's always reliable though, as I've nearly bought things before that had damage that was hard to see at first glance.

[Tobylou8]

@mafields627 said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:

As a band director, I would hate to have to burst some kid's bubble thinking they had scored a great horn. There's always a lot of excitement that comes with those purchases. However, I also know what the results will be down the road. Some of them do sound pretty good until they start needing repairs. For some reason, though, parents often refuse to consult their student's band director before making these sorts of purchases.

Yep!! I was consulted about a horn for a beginner and gave the person many options and price points, and brands to look for. There are LOTS of Yamaha 2335 trumpets available locally in the $200-$300 range. After several discussions that included info about horns I owned (odd), the inquiries stopped. I later found out, a $79.95 band director approved, black lacquer TSO, complete with white gloves was purchased instead. The inquiries about my horns had been raised in hopes that I would help an aspiring young student buy giving them one of my horns.
I am of the mind that you get what you pay for and Caveat Emptor should always be at the forefront of any horn purchase. A new Strad for $280 to good to be true? Absolutely too good to be true.

[L.A.Horn]

I believe when asked for advice and/or suggestions, the person to whom the inquiry is being made, should act responsibly by asking the budget for the purchase.
I'm aware of instances in which the potential purchaser couldn't afford the recommended instrument and was too embarrassed to mention it. I even know of an instance in which someone stated that if X amount of money isn't spent, a trumpet shouldn't be purchased.
There are trumpets for all budgets. Of course, quality and performance improve as the price increases and it should be noted. Ultimately, it's about encouraging new players and guiding them towards the best purchase within their means.

[Shepherds_Crook]

@ACB Trent makes that $280 axe sound pretty good!

Yes, the rare model 143! That just makes ya mad ... as I’m sure so many probably get sucked in on these. Sad. Parents are often cheap when it comes to getting first instruments, and I understand, because you don’t know if the kid will stick with it or not.

I remember while working at Baldwin Piano back in the ‘80’s, we had a comic on the wall of a kid and his dad standing in front of a 100-year old upright piano missing key tops, with broken stings sticking out where body panels were missing, and looking like a piece of junk. Dad was smiling (while the kid looked stunned) as he said to his son, ‘we got you this starter piano to learn on. Once you learn how to play this one, we’ll get you a nice one’!

Not everyone can afford a nice new instrument for their kid, but getting them a crap instrument really lowers their chance of ever learning to play. Instrument rentals are a nice option, if you can rent a decent instrument ... not just a smashed Bundy that the dealer has been renting for the last 20 years.

BTW: Trent can make a garden hose sound really good, so don’t buy a knock-off Strad because it sounds good in the video above. Do your child a favor and get a decent horn. Buying a nice 2nd-hand Strad, Yamaha, or Getzen can be a great option that you’ll likely be able to sell in 2 years for exactly what you paid for it now ... IF it turns out that little Jimmy is going to be a soccer star and not the next band president at his school.

Trent also has some really nice playing ‘new’ horns that won’t break the bank ... so you ought to visit his website, give them a call with your questions, and get junior a horn that will help them become the best player possible... and then get your kid a good trumpet teacher! That is the other part of the success equation!

[grune]

I am against all counterfeit.

A very cursory online search should reveal to anyone having a pulse that a genuine Bach sells for very much more. If the buyer persists to buy, then other factors are present.

One consequence I have found with fakes is the stigma. Once other students know and see a student playing a faked brand, the status issue arises, with rather detrimental effects on the youngster's psyche usually. I think this is worse than any stigma associated with a no-name or generic brand.

But I am not against playable instruments selling for low prices, if the brand is not counterfeited. For beginners, the key issue is to have a horn and mouthpiece that are "playable": weight, grip, valves, intonation, medium bore, m/p of right size, etc. "Sound" of the horn is dead last on priorities: a decent, playable horn these days will always have a decent sound at the student level.

I tell parents some simple facts:
/1/ the trumpet is a very difficult instrument, and at least a year is needed to see if the youngster has any aptitude;
/2/ development requires diligence and the reinforcement of weekly lessons at minimum;
/3/ a playable horn will help greatly to ensure the development, the music, the band, the kid's self-esteem are positive;
/4/ the cost of lessons far far exceeds the cost of a decent instrument, to the point the horn cost is immaterial, so why scrimp on the horn cost?
/5/ the "investment" is not into the instrument; it is into the kid's overall development into an outstanding person.

[Brian Moon]

@Tobylou8

I love the ones that call for lessons a week or so after they buy a piece of junk.

[BigDub]

Trent. You need to watch more local cable tv. The commercials for non stick pans, Flex seal, shavers, etc have the proper approach. The product they want you to switch from is always shown in the most miserable light possible.
By the way, I get a serious kick out of most of these commercials.
You, however, made the huge mistake of making the no-no-it’s a phony trumpet sound like a professional trumpet.
I think you should use more of an expert skilled in bad tone and playing to demonstrate in this case.
Just some friendly ( tongue in cheek ) advice.
You’re welcome!

[administrator]

Only read the title: YES.

[djeffers78]

Seems the hard fact is you can get really nice trumpets for under $1k.
I for one will not pay for a name when good stuff-quality stuff exist at much more reasonable prices.
I own 3 Chinese made trumpets and 1 cornet. The trumpets are nearly 10 years old at this point and the cornet 5.
No valve problems, no ferrules coming apart, nothing other than clean tones and reliable horns.
If I can get a fake Strad for 1/10th of the cost of the real deal I’m going with it.
R&D has been done on the 37, 43 & 72, it’s all profits now. Nobody in manufacturing needs to make more than $25 an hour.
The equipment that is used has been paid for many times over.
The materials are not in the hundreds of dollars to build a trumpet not by a long shot

[Kehaulani]

@administrator said in Is a $280 New Bach Stradivarius Trumpet too good to be true?:

Only read the title: YES.

Self-evident answer. Agree, and of course.

[ACB]

@BigDub ha! Maybe I can get Billy Mays' hair from the grave?

[Brian Moon]

@djeffers78

Which brands of Chinese horns do you have?

[djeffers78]

@Brian-Moon

I have a Mendini-the $99 job. At first it had lots of valve issues. But now runs smoothly. I bought for my kids to play along with. They were very young then and I didn’t want my good horns destroyed. I’ve learned a lot about straightening the bell flair with this one

I also have a Cecilio 3 series, an intermediate trumpet that sold for $250 when I bought it. I think they’ve went up in price since. It is a fine horn that plays fine. Jason Harrolson even reviewed one on YouTube. Not a glowing review but not a bad one either

Not sure who the parent company is of the above two but my next Cecilio is the tt500ses. It is a JinBao horn also sold by a company called JZ for around $800. K&K music has msrp at $599 I believe. Bought mine for $130 used on eBay. It is a fine trumpet. Great build quality and nice finish. Really blows and plays nicely!

All of the above have been used by me during rehearsals and performance with two different community bands.

I switch up between my Holton B47 and the Cecilio tt500 regularly because I like them equally

Lastly is my Brasspire Unicorn dual trigger cornet. It is only 3 years old and has been a great cornet. I’m very happy with it. Many miles has been put on it as well. I use this cornet in a competitive BBB. It has worked flawlessly since day one. I believe it was about $850. Bought from ACB upon Trents recommendation over his house brand.

At NABBA I’ve been able to try out many makes and models of cornet and the only one I could really tell a big difference between was a Smith Watkins (not sure of the model but WOW!)

I’m not a professional with a screaming range but I do require a horn that I can trust is reliable so I can play and not worry

And in case you’re wondering Hetmans 2 across the board. Hetmans 4 for the fast slides

[Brian Moon]

@djeffers78

I had a Jin Bao made trumpet that was pretty good. I had an "intermediate" that was good except that the valves were toast in a couple of weeks. I had a beginner Wisemann that was decent, the valves lasted a beginner 5 years of playing and they are probably still good 4 years after that.

The intermediate and beginner were only decent after some custom work. The Jin Bao was pretty good out of the box.

I have a Wisemann Eb that was a good playing horn out of the box but it is now an excellent Eb, much better than that famous, over priced, American brand that I can't stand. I haven't played Mendini or Cecelio.