TrumpetBoards.com
    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups

    Researching old instruments

    Vintage Items
    9
    22
    2138
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • ?
      A Former User last edited by

      Besides the branded more or less famous horns out there exists a great number of horns with names but no pedigree. Stencil horns is a usual term. However, some were sub lines of major brands like Conn also branded Pan American, Continental, Cavalier,etc. There were the ones that were hidden behind other names like Sears, Montgomery Ward, and lessor lights like J.W.Jenkins. The bible for the internet is Horn-U-Copia. https://horn-u-copia.net/

      One time I was trying to find out some information on a peashooter with the branding of Knickerbocker underlined Made-In-USA. I've yet to find a link to it's source. One would think "Knickerbocker" would be something with a link to New York maybe. There are a lot of horns like this we all have come across from time to time that are mysteries. Any ideas as to where this one came from? peashooter.jpg

      bell.jpg

      D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Bob Pixley
        Bob Pixley last edited by

        The valve caps and finger buttons look like the ones used on old Bueschers.

        Kehaulani 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • D
          djeffers78 @Guest last edited by

          @Niner

          Looks just like my Olympian.
          Which looks like the very first Holton Collegiate line.
          Not 100% sure but may be made by a company back then called Beaufort-maybe
          OldSchoolEuph probably will have the most knowledge on this subject and I consider his site to be biblical in trumpet history content

          ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • Kehaulani
            Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @Bob Pixley last edited by

            @Bob-Pixley said in Researching old instruments:

            The valve caps and finger buttons look like the ones used on old Bueschers.

            How do you pronounce "Buescher"? 👹

            C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • C
              chelpres @Kehaulani last edited by

              @Kehaulani I asked this same question of a German friend of ours ,who is prone to being pedantic on matters of language.
              Her view was that it should be pronounced phonetically...booscher. Then again, there may be regional variations.
              Regards, Tom

              ROWUK barliman2001 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Kehaulani
                Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

                I was meanly joking. The pronunciation by the American Buescher family, is "Bischer".

                C 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • C
                  chelpres @Kehaulani last edited by

                  @Kehaulani Ah well, sounds like a case of you say tomato and I say tomarto. In the end it hardly matters. I enjoy the 3 I have.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • ?
                    A Former User @djeffers78 last edited by A Former User

                    @djeffers78 Beaufort was a sub line of Holton. Made in Chicago. I have a Beaufort cornet...made in Chicago embossed on the bell. Don't think that's the answer.

                    D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • D
                      djeffers78 @Guest last edited by djeffers78

                      @Niner
                      https://www.trumpet-history.com/Holton Models.pdf

                      Check the Holton Collegiate model 172.
                      On or about page 100 in the Holton model guide

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • JorgePD
                        JorgePD last edited by

                        Horn-U-Copia has a listing for a Knickerbocker Trumpet and describes it as a "Conn Stencil." From what I can see the engraving is different but otherwise they look like the same horn.

                        https://www.horn-u-copia.net/show.php?selby=+where+instrument%3D"Trumpet"+and+maker%3D"Knickerbocker"

                        1947 Buescher 400 Model 225
                        1957 Olds Ambassador

                        Trumpet practice drives me crazy, but playing keeps me sane.

                        ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Bob Pixley
                          Bob Pixley last edited by Bob Pixley

                          @JorgePD said in Researching old instruments:

                          Horn-U-Copia has a listing for a Knickerbocker Trumpet and describes it as a "Conn Stencil." From what I can see the engraving is different but otherwise they look like the same horn.

                          https://www.horn-u-copia.net/show.php?selby=+where+instrument%3D"Trumpet"+and+maker%3D"Knickerbocker"

                          I used to have a Crusader trumpet that looked almost exactly like the one in the original post, except for the valve buttons and caps. I believe it was a Conn stencil, but didn't have the knurled buttons and caps.
                          MVC-015S.JPG

                          ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • ?
                            A Former User @JorgePD last edited by

                            @JorgePD Hadn't noticed that before. Must be a relatively new addition to his list. It used to be that you could enlarge the photo slightly for a better look but the thumbnails are one of the maddening things about Horn-u-copia. What I have and what is shown is not the same in furniture design...the braces, the valve caps, etc. It's not from the same horn factory I'd say. From what little I can see on that link the bell engraving looks more like a an Artex at the top and the braces and the valve caps which, by the way Horn-u-copia lists as made in Czechoslovakia in the stencil section. The Artex horn I have says made in Elkhart USA and I think from the Art line of Harry Pedler. The point of this being, Knickerbocker was probably a name that wasn't nailed down to a particular maker.

                            Many names on horns are generically used by any maker that cares to use them. Nobody was going to go to court over a name on a commodity horn back in the day. I type "commodity" in that anything that looked like a cornet was considered a cornet and trade names were not worth fighting over in the stencil market.....like the name on a trumpet made in China is today.

                            Here is the Artex I have that looks more like Horn-u-copias Knickerbocker.

                            DSC00277.jpg
                            artex.jpg

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                            • ?
                              A Former User @Bob Pixley last edited by

                              @Bob-Pixley that looks possible. One main brace that is angled doesn't disqualify it as a possible family member.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • ROWUK
                                ROWUK Veterans & Military Musicians Western Europe Group Monette Club @chelpres last edited by

                                @chelpres said in Researching old instruments:

                                @Kehaulani I asked this same question of a German friend of ours ,who is prone to being pedantic on matters of language.
                                Her view was that it should be pronounced phonetically...booscher. Then again, there may be regional variations.
                                Regards, Tom

                                With the double o in Boosher being pronounced like in "good or wood". The german slightly nasal pronunciation cannot be replicated with english vowels.

                                Kehaulani 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Kehaulani
                                  Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @ROWUK last edited by Kehaulani

                                  @ROWUK said in Researching old instruments:

                                  @chelpres said in Researching old instruments:

                                  @Kehaulani I asked this same question of a German friend of ours ,who is prone to being pedantic on matters of language.
                                  Her view was that it should be pronounced phonetically...booscher. Then again, there may be regional variations.
                                  Regards, Tom

                                  With the double o in Boosher being pronounced like in "good or wood". The german slightly nasal pronunciation cannot be replicated with english vowels.

                                  While that may be correct in proper German, American families are notorious for bastardizing an original language and transforming it into an Americanized pronunciation.

                                  A near-by town is named Groen but is pronounced Green. Actually, Gruen is green in English but my point is the difference between what was originally the proper pronunciation vs. Americanization.

                                  Buescher was an American company and it's family American. I have seen an official Buescher promotion from the family that emphasises that they pronounce the word "Bisher". Grammatically wrong but hey, they're American, they can call it what they want.

                                  ROWUK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • barliman2001
                                    barliman2001 Global Moderator @chelpres last edited by

                                    @chelpres The "ue" in German is somewhere between a U "oo" and an i "ee". Reminding yourself of a Scottish accent, you might phonetically write it "ui" as in Scottish "puir" for "poor".

                                    Courtois Balanced
                                    Courtois D
                                    Olds Recording
                                    Buescher Aristocrat
                                    Gaudet C
                                    Selmer G
                                    Courtois 154 Flugelhorn
                                    Besson International Bb cornet
                                    Courtois Bb cornet
                                    B&H Sovereign Soprano Cornet
                                    B&H Sovereign trombone
                                    Willy Garreis trombone
                                    Weltklang Euph

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • D
                                      djeffers78 last edited by djeffers78

                                      When I took Duetsche in HS-I was taught to pronounce ü as make my mouth in the shape to say O but say E

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Kehaulani
                                        Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

                                        There has been discussion, that part of the family may even have Belgian roots. Give it up. It's Bisher.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • ROWUK
                                          ROWUK Veterans & Military Musicians Western Europe Group Monette Club @Kehaulani last edited by

                                          @Kehaulani Groen is actually dutch for green.

                                          Kehaulani 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Kehaulani
                                            Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @ROWUK last edited by Kehaulani

                                            This post is deleted!
                                            ROWUK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • 1
                                            • 2
                                            • 1 / 2
                                            • First post
                                              Last post