Posts made by OldSchoolEuph

@Pinstriper said in Crickets?:

BAC is handing System Blue, which is now made offshore. Yamaha of course is probably the biggest footprint. Kanstul's offshore Tama line was a thing, dunno what became of that. And there are a smattering of lines running Andalucia horns which are also offshore production.

Tony Scodwell is also launching a new flugel, of course as Kanstul has shut. No word yet on who is doing the production. Seems like everything is either offshore or BAC, and I worry if BAC tries to fill every void. Maybe they can.

I have heard Andalucia lines - the depth of sound knocks you back on your heels. They were a mix of Carol & Kanstul for a time. I assume they have reverted to all Carol then (?)

BAC has been fairly clear about not trying to be everything Kanstul did - it was a bad strategy for Kanstul, and they can see that careful targeted products are a much more prudent course of action.

There is a lot going on out there in the industry and the art, but no one seems to want to talk about it here. I am really surprised that no one has been posting about several topics:

Example #1: BAC integration of Kanstul tooling and design

• The first phase of shop expansion is now up and running
• Kanstul sold off a lot of tooling and never kept great production documentation, forcing BAC to fill in a lot of gaps and ultimately apply bits and pieces to their own new work.
• The train cars arrived from California in August and already new models are hitting the market
• 3 new models, and prototypes refining a fourth are being shown, and some sold
  o Paseo Z72 – a lightweight 72 inspired BAC rework of the Kanstul 1503
  o Plaza – a “legit”, more mainstream all-around professional trumpet
  o Martin Committee – the fourth generation. A new Committee designed with leading edge tech and extensive dimensional and material research into all prior Committees from my 1937 original to the couple of Kanstul 1603s that were built. Designed to manifest the concept “Martin Committee” with the classic sound, broad projection, and same enabling of the player to perform at peak
  o The Benge project – ongoing project to continue the life’s work of Benge and Autrey to perfect the original French sound. Prototypes are being shown
• How the wild-man image of Mike Corrigan is going to mesh with the top tier horns BAC is now developing and selling and the serious professionals they are made for.

Example #2: Tedd Waggoner retired from Bach last July

• With his withdrawal from public contact, and Roy’s retirement from his volunteer role a few years back, who is left who knows the history, the culture, and the current capabilities to support the customer?
• He was part of most every significant design decision at Bach since the move to Elkhart – even admitted the confusing Bundy serials on Bach TR-300s was his doing. Who is steering the ship going forward (his email auto-responds with a sales guy as contact)
• How does one arrange for a custom Bach these days? Tedd always handled those customers, being able to mix the business side with technical understanding of the customer’s desires and ability to help translate that to specifics
• Paulsen was investing heavily in automation for those elements that consistency is desirable and allowing the labor to be focused where human skill is essential. Who will be managing that transition now? Who has that level of understanding as to which task falls into which category?

Example #3: Yamaha continues to move production out of Japan

• Is anyone noticing a change in “quality”?
• Any distinctive traits noted – new elements, missing details?
• Has anyone besides me noticed all of the trim parts on non-Japan-built Yamahas that appear on a myriad of cheaper horns?

Example #4: Voids left by the closure of Kanstul

• Where do DCI groups go for instruments these days? Who is left that specializes?
• What will the next generation of US Army Herald Trumpets be?
• Alternatives for American style low brass (there is the hand built Yamaha York recording bass, but that costs more than my car!)
• What are boutique makers doing
  o Will Flip resource the Wild Thing and Inspiration?
  o What does everyone think of Flip’s new off-shore line?
  o Will Lee Adams work something out with BAC, or go elsewhere. Is the market still there to justify the investment?
  o Anyone try the new Austin Winds horn?

Example #5: Shifting (shrinking) opportunities

• Anyone seeing a decline in church gigs?
• Seems like back-up horns are a thing of the past in the pop scene right now (yes/no?)
• Market for wedding & party bands vs DJ now that software lets almost anyone spin with some marginal competence
• Professional orchestra budget crisis in the wake of the change in tax structure discouraging charitable giving
• Does anyone soundtrack a TV commercial with studio musicians anymore, or has MIDI monopolized that?

Example #6: Repertoire availability

• More and more music is going out of print
• How many people have tried viewing charts over the web on their phone while performing? (what about those of us who can’t see that small screen?)

@Jolter said in BAC Plaza:

Without knowing any trumpeters in particular beginning with "Z", yeah a 1503 must be it, being Kanstul's "72LT clone".

So I take it the Plaza is not a straight up copy of any Kanstul? The name makes me think of the Kanstul Coliseum but the specs don't match up.

[Edited once I realized I was mixing horns]
The Plaza uses a more orchestral bell than that, and it is on a Kanstul-made mandrel. The Coliseum bell is faster taper than even the 72, this bell is less so. BAC is not building a horn with the Coliseum bell yet, though a certain person has been hassling them to do so!

For both the Z72 and the Plaza, just as Zig insisted on, leadpipes are carefully matched to the finished design at BAC, and the body of the horn is designed with next-gen modeling playing a role. Think of the Z72 as a second generation 1503 updated to today's tech (and with that @#*%%$^ BAC brace - nothing's perfect....) and the Plaza as an all-around "legit" horn.

@Jolter said in BAC Plaza:

@OldSchoolEuph said in BAC Plaza:

Kanstul DNA

Is there anything particular about this model that shows a Kanstul heritage? I assume you're seeing details either in the picture or description that I'm overlooking.

If we look at the description of their Paseo 'Z72' Model Trumpet, they leave not-so-veiled hints. Not sure why they couldn't use the trademark, I guess that was not included in the sale. Anyone know exactly what model they mean by "one of the more popular commercial models"?

https://www.coolisbac.com/paseo

The tooling used for this instrument came from a very respected American workshop in Anaheim, CA, and was one of the more popular Commercial Models produced among studio and session players.

I had missed that on the website. That was the first derivative (a fairly direct one) they worked on. I didn't see it had gone public too. Yes, the "Z" stands for a well known name, who's slightly altered version of a Bach 72 that horn uses. I would say it is a 1503, except that it is important to recognize BAC is making their own horns. Mark Kanstul sold the Benge annealing ovens before BAC came along, and with the criticality of working-annealing schedules in bell making (and that the schedules themselves were gone pre-sale when I had inquired), BAC has had to work out their own version and alter the design accordingly to mesh with the bell.

@tjveloce Wow- that house is amazing. Any more interior pics (trying to steal your plans ...)?

Well, I'm at 2075 sqft, and ballpark 320K, but that's exactly where it was 12 years ago ....

We have all been waiting to see how the acquisition of Kanstul assets by BAC altered their previously mostly Asian line-up. Here is the first pro level horn with Kanstul DNA out of, and built in, KC.

https://www.coolisbac.com/plaza

@tjveloce Wow- that house is amazing. Any more interior pics (trying to steal your plans ...)?

Just a heads-up for those lucky enough to play in really big settings: I was at a Christmas concert last night, just enjoying the sounds of brass in a stone cathedral style room with ornately carved timber Gothic roof vaults. It was a packed house. As a low brass player, the end of the Roger Harvey Festive Cheer medley is a real treat for a low brass player (or listener in this case). But, while the Gothic architecture is a megaphone for low frequencies, packed seats suck up all the highs. The crowning moment at the end of that low brass tour-d'force is the pic part coming in on top - but it was nowhere to be heard. You have to adjust ensemble balance so that it sounds top heavy in the group if you have a huge hall and a packed floor. Oops.

Hope you guys can make it work. If I didn't already have 3, I would have jumped on this. One of the very, very few instruments of that vintage that still has mainstream uses today.

@Dr-GO said in Christmas Services:

This just in from the Medical Director at the Lutheran Church:

Four common carols: O Come all ye faithful - Hark the Herald - Angels we have heard - Joy to the World. These are all robust and call for trumpet descants. I'd like to propose a plan something like Melody verse 1, no trumpet verse two, descant for final verse. I've descants for both B flat and C trumpets for the four above. I would also like to have two featured numbers in the prelude: Gesu Bambino, with voice on the verses and trumpet on the refrain and the coda. Second number: O Holy Night (Cantique de Noel)

So it seems the Christmas Program is coming together.

Hark the Herald: I do this one straight, with just the ascending lines into accented spots on the last verse (and quietly playing bass line during the verse we skip - hey, I'm a euphonium player at heart and by training after all)

Angels we have heard....: Just an ascending run into the last refrain with a Hollywood flourish at the end for me.

Joy to the world: OK, this one has those wonderful ascending bass lines - if you add them in. Our trombone (my 83 year old mother, a pro English horn/oboist who returned to bone for the first time since college a few years ago and practices a couple hours a day for fun) nails those. I add in a last verse adaptation of the Canadian Brass medley version with some of the low brass runs from the London Brass recording brought up an octave. (best on a fanfare trumpet)

Oh Come all ye Faithful is my favorite. I have my own semi-descant part for the opening verse of 4 in this hymnal. Verse 3 is the Wilcox arrangement with trumpet on the descant, and verse 4 is the Wilcox again with tutti organ and simple fanfares inserted on trumpet.

As for prelims, I am hoping we will be doing the Lovelace Concertato on Adeste Fidelis (had a heck of a time finding a copy), though with the new organ still in a thousand pieces and a teen-age french horn that keeps missing the few rehearsals - I don't know. I played that last in 1981 when just starting high school with other high school players, one of whom is now Principle Trumpet of the Empire Brass. He and I split the voicing on Gesu similar to what was suggested only Trumpet to Euphonium.

@Bob-Pixley
If it were any normal gig, you would probably have been frustrated - but Christmas carols is just too much fun, isnt it? And there is nothing better when the spotlight is on than knowing you have great equipment. If I were alone on a cornet in that setting, next to my Stratodyne, my next choice would be a Bach 184 I think. Glad you had a good time!

@Bertie said in Christmas Services:

I did a chamber music program for the patients in a hospital here in Munich (some Gershwin, Brahms with piano, and Milhaud, Ewazen with my trio violin, trumpet, piano). Sunday will be a Messiah Open Sing in a church... and that's it for this year

Munich. Nice!

If you ever get a chance to head SouthWest to a little town perched on a bluff above the Ammer River called Rottenbuch, what was referred to in English for us as the Church of the Nativity (Klosterkirche Mariä Geburt) at the end of a former monastery that now seems to serve as something of a municipal center, has the most amazing acoustics to play in thanks to all the rococo plaster work beneath the vaults. Getting up to the organ loft is a bit of a challenge though if you like to have your legs straight - they carved the stairs out of the stone base for the steeple/town-clock-tower at a time when people must have been very small (our tuba player had a rough time of it!) The service was in Latin when last I was there - incredible playing experience.

@Kehaulani - yes, it was meant tongue-in-cheek as the (more-or-less Calvinist) Reformed Church is a couple decades younger, but also in that among Lutheran churches, the fairly young ELCA (I played for the Midwestern celebration of the merger in the early 80s if memory serves), with its progressive modernist practices and looser theology, has consumed most of the American branches of the Lutheran Church leaving only Missouri and Wisconsin Synod churches adhering to the older traditions while seeing their memberships dwindle as young people defect to the less theologically strict "new" Lutheran church.

@Dr-GO
This year will be mostly quartet - carols after the service, hymns during, and a rather ambitious piece beforehand that may be a bit much for this amateur group. Also some descant parts for me and solo stuff Christmas morning. It will be my 46th Christmas eve playing, all of them in Lutheran churches except for 1984 at what turned out to be the last Christmas Eve for a reconstruction-era "German Reformed" parish - I guess too many members defected to those new-fangled Lutherans...

I have played Christmas Eves left handed due to severe burns 6 hours before (caught a falling soldering iron and didn't let go till I put it back on the bench), so sick I could hardly keep from fainting, with a lip the size of a golf ball (don't ask), and in blinding pain barely able to ambulate on crutches (one time being in the balcony was not so great). So long as I can get through this year without a repeat of the devastating December 23rd 2018 back injury that left one leg rotated 90 degrees and with peripheral paralysis for a few weeks (I suppose any of the pain I wasn't feeling was a good thing, but still...), it will be a good year - even if the Pastor's teenage son, our French horn, routinely forgets what key he's in again (Christmas 2017...)!

@Kehaulani I'll rephrase: Making one's living exclusively from playing is not the one and only possible qualification for being a "professional".

@Kehaulani
Frankie Avalon may be famous for his late 50s-early 60s TV and film acting/singing as well as several singles as a vocalist in the same era, but he began in the early 50s as a studio, and ultimately on-air trumpet player.

I also left out Edward Llewellyn and Byron Autrey from the previous list of highly influential folk who did more than play to earn a living. At the same time, I suppose I should acknowledge at least 2 I know who indeed do make all but a trivial portion of their living from playing : Jeff Stockham and Derek Lockhart.

My point was that, Jeff and Derek aside, most who have been "professional" players have also been designers, endorsers, salesmen, producers, band leaders, composers, actors, entertainers, comedians, teachers, shop foremen, makers, bartenders and a host of other occupations in addition to playing. Making a living from playing alone is not a threshold to being a "professional".

@tmd said in Professional musicians on this board question:

@Newell-Post said in Professional musicians on this board question:

@GeorgeB If you got paid, then you meet the traditional definition of a professional. You don't need to earn your full-time living doing it.

My definition is different ... You're a professional trumpet player, if playing the trumpet is how you make a living. Of course, it's okay to have different definitions. And I think GeorgeB's definition is very reasonable, too. And I think many would agree with him.

Mike

This prompted me to think of some of those who augmented their playing income in order to make a living (so technically not professional players by this standard, but are amply represented in trades media, held significant posts, have multiple commercial recordings etc.):
Wynton Marsalis
Doc Severinsen
Rafael Mendez
Al Hirt
Frankie Avalon
Miles Davis
Dizzy Gillespie
Louis Armstrong
Renold Schilke
Elden Benge
Rudy Muck (both of them)
Vincent Bach
Don Berry
Joseph Gustat
Gustav Heim
Earnst Couturier
Henry Distin

To earn one's living just from playing is not just rare today, but always has been rare. At the heyday of major symphonies, the typical performer held at least 2 other jobs to keep food on the table (look up Fred Forman some time - a true performing musician's life).

@Vulgano-Brother said in Anybody master the 1-3, 2-4 trill?:

I used to torture students who didn't practice by having them finger (dry) the 2, 1-3 combination. Doesn't take long before parts of the arm start screaming.

I've spent nearly half a century doing 1-3,2-4 over and over, and 4,2,3,1,3,2,repeat to build/maintain flexibility and strength for fingering (yes, I do not buy into Besson's argument that euphoniums need the 4th valve under the left hand). But the last couple of years, it has been getting hard to keep the patterns going without fingers getting out of sync - same thing is happening to my typing. Don't know if its the arthritis, which is getting worse, or something else (other than teh obvious age thing ...) - see, just did it there! "the"

I have to wonder if playing trumpet with that tendency to exploit the pinkie hook these last 9 years might be contributing . . . .

@administrator said in Brick & Mortar Music Stores:

When I learned of Rayburn's music in Boston (across the street from Symphony Hall) shutting its doors, that was the moment I realized that brick-and-mortar music stores were done for. I'm not sure how it is in the rest of the world, but in the USA, brick-and-mortar stores of all kinds are struggling. Same with bicycle shops.

Actually, you might have to walk another 50 feet or so, but Virtuosity is there now diagonally across the intersection. https://www.virtuosityboston.com/