There is a lot going on out there in the industry and the art, but no one seems to want to talk about it here. I am really surprised that no one has been posting about several topics:

Example #1: BAC integration of Kanstul tooling and design

• The first phase of shop expansion is now up and running
• Kanstul sold off a lot of tooling and never kept great production documentation, forcing BAC to fill in a lot of gaps and ultimately apply bits and pieces to their own new work.
• The train cars arrived from California in August and already new models are hitting the market
• 3 new models, and prototypes refining a fourth are being shown, and some sold
  o Paseo Z72 – a lightweight 72 inspired BAC rework of the Kanstul 1503
  o Plaza – a “legit”, more mainstream all-around professional trumpet
  o Martin Committee – the fourth generation. A new Committee designed with leading edge tech and extensive dimensional and material research into all prior Committees from my 1937 original to the couple of Kanstul 1603s that were built. Designed to manifest the concept “Martin Committee” with the classic sound, broad projection, and same enabling of the player to perform at peak
  o The Benge project – ongoing project to continue the life’s work of Benge and Autrey to perfect the original French sound. Prototypes are being shown
• How the wild-man image of Mike Corrigan is going to mesh with the top tier horns BAC is now developing and selling and the serious professionals they are made for.

Example #2: Tedd Waggoner retired from Bach last July

• With his withdrawal from public contact, and Roy’s retirement from his volunteer role a few years back, who is left who knows the history, the culture, and the current capabilities to support the customer?
• He was part of most every significant design decision at Bach since the move to Elkhart – even admitted the confusing Bundy serials on Bach TR-300s was his doing. Who is steering the ship going forward (his email auto-responds with a sales guy as contact)
• How does one arrange for a custom Bach these days? Tedd always handled those customers, being able to mix the business side with technical understanding of the customer’s desires and ability to help translate that to specifics
• Paulsen was investing heavily in automation for those elements that consistency is desirable and allowing the labor to be focused where human skill is essential. Who will be managing that transition now? Who has that level of understanding as to which task falls into which category?

Example #3: Yamaha continues to move production out of Japan

• Is anyone noticing a change in “quality”?
• Any distinctive traits noted – new elements, missing details?
• Has anyone besides me noticed all of the trim parts on non-Japan-built Yamahas that appear on a myriad of cheaper horns?

Example #4: Voids left by the closure of Kanstul

• Where do DCI groups go for instruments these days? Who is left that specializes?
• What will the next generation of US Army Herald Trumpets be?
• Alternatives for American style low brass (there is the hand built Yamaha York recording bass, but that costs more than my car!)
• What are boutique makers doing
  o Will Flip resource the Wild Thing and Inspiration?
  o What does everyone think of Flip’s new off-shore line?
  o Will Lee Adams work something out with BAC, or go elsewhere. Is the market still there to justify the investment?
  o Anyone try the new Austin Winds horn?

Example #5: Shifting (shrinking) opportunities

• Anyone seeing a decline in church gigs?
• Seems like back-up horns are a thing of the past in the pop scene right now (yes/no?)
• Market for wedding & party bands vs DJ now that software lets almost anyone spin with some marginal competence
• Professional orchestra budget crisis in the wake of the change in tax structure discouraging charitable giving
• Does anyone soundtrack a TV commercial with studio musicians anymore, or has MIDI monopolized that?

Example #6: Repertoire availability

• More and more music is going out of print
• How many people have tried viewing charts over the web on their phone while performing? (what about those of us who can’t see that small screen?)

@flugelgirl said in Favorite Cornet:

The story I heard about Reynolds is that he was an employee at King and made horns after hours at the factory with his name on them. He got fired and had to produce them elsewhere. Maybe true, maybe not, but it explains the similarities for sure!

WOW. No.

Foster A Reynolds apprenticed at JW York in Grand Rapids under Pops. While not his declared area of expertise, he developed a solid understanding of valves while there. Around 1905, he was hired away by HN White, who was still operating out of a rented loft at the time. Reynolds learned more about brass design and business from White, but also shared what he had learned at York about valves - leading to the "Improved Model" series around 1911.

After 30 years there, Reynolds retired from HN White, and together with his brother Harper and Max Scherl (investor), he opened his own enterprise under the Reynolds name, and concurrently a student division named Ohio Band Instrument Co. He had expected tp be a figure-head, but his type-A personality kept him on the job 24/7. Among others, OBIC built the stencil Roth 300 trumpet. The Reynolds designs were indeed similar to what Reynolds had been doing at HN White (It wouldn't become King Musical Instruments until 1965), as designing a new lone was not what he had in mind as "backing off".

But Reynolds still wanted to retire. In 1946, as soon as the war was over and it was possible, Foster and Harper sold their interest in the company to Scherl & Roth. Most of what we see under the Reynolds name, made after 1946, is not related to FA Reynolds.

Shortly thereafter however Chicago Musical Instruments lured Reynolds out of retirement to help restructure FE Olds. There in 1949, with Harper making the required additional tooling on a lathe that still exists in the custody of a member of the extended FE Olds Corporate family's care, he launched the Ambassador line.

At Olds, Reynold took on an apprentice, Zigmant Kanstul - probably hoping to hand over the reigns one day and finally get some R&R. Zig was there when FA died of a massive heart attack in 1960 on the shop floor at Fullerton. It should come as no surprise that like the mentor he looked up to the rest of his days, Zig too died at his plant.

Wow, if remarkably benign, typical, and non-controversial threads need to be locked as a routine practice, that's a sad commentary on this forum.

OK, here are a few Conns from my collection:

Conn Solo Wonder (1880s)

A Couple Conn Perfected Wonders (originated 1906)

1908 Conn Conqueror

1909 Conn Wonderphone

1910 Conn symphony Trumpet

1918 Conn Military Trumpet

1920s Conn American Legion Bugle

1922 Conn 5B

1924 Conn 22B New York Symphony

1926 Con 26B

1928 Conn Cavalier

1928 Conn 24B Opera

1932 Conn 10B New Era

1937 Conn 2B New World Symphony

1937 Conn 48B Vocabell

1952 Conn 22B

1954 Conn 28B Connstellation

1957 Conn 38B Connstellation

1972 Conn severinsen

Though I am really more of a King and Holton collector

Doesn't have to be the whole horn, does it?

@Dr-GO
This year will be mostly quartet - carols after the service, hymns during, and a rather ambitious piece beforehand that may be a bit much for this amateur group. Also some descant parts for me and solo stuff Christmas morning. It will be my 46th Christmas eve playing, all of them in Lutheran churches except for 1984 at what turned out to be the last Christmas Eve for a reconstruction-era "German Reformed" parish - I guess too many members defected to those new-fangled Lutherans...

I have played Christmas Eves left handed due to severe burns 6 hours before (caught a falling soldering iron and didn't let go till I put it back on the bench), so sick I could hardly keep from fainting, with a lip the size of a golf ball (don't ask), and in blinding pain barely able to ambulate on crutches (one time being in the balcony was not so great). So long as I can get through this year without a repeat of the devastating December 23rd 2018 back injury that left one leg rotated 90 degrees and with peripheral paralysis for a few weeks (I suppose any of the pain I wasn't feeling was a good thing, but still...), it will be a good year - even if the Pastor's teenage son, our French horn, routinely forgets what key he's in again (Christmas 2017...)!

OK, here's one of those content threads we have been talking about. Here are 4 company timelines. Expand, correct, add more companies. Let's add some core content.

Besson
1838: AG Besson builds his first Perinet valve cornet in France

1858: AG Besson loses a lawsuit and relocates to England. His wife restarts the firm, continuing the same serial numbers

1867: (or before) The French firm introduces a new concept of a pitch change slide at the last bend of the lead pipe

1880: (or possibly very shortly before) The French firm introduces the first modern wrap valve trumpet, pretty much what people call a Brevete model (though that is not a model name)

1890: The French firm changes names to Fontaine-Besson as a result of a marriage in the family

1894: The English firm is sold out of the Besson family

1914: Austrian deserter Vincent Bach lands a job as assistant principle trumpet in Boston using a Besson cornet. He is promptly provided Gustav Heim’s spare 1914 LP New Holton Trumpet demonstrator.

1930: Elden Benge begins building modified Bessons and then his own horns in the same style, he continues evolving this school of design with the help of Schilke, Autrey and Busch through the end of his life.

1931: Francois Millereau, a former Besson employee, sells his trumpet making business to Henri Selmer.

1932: Fontaine-Besson is acquired by Strasser Margaux & Lemaire

1948: Besson (the English firm) is acquired by Boosey & Hawkes

1957: An insolvent SML sells Fontaine-Besson to Couesnon

1969: An arson fire reduces the Couesnon plant to a pile of broken block and twisted steel. All Besson records and tooling there are lost. (This is the end of direct production of F.Besson horns)

1980: Donald Benge teams with Zig Kanstul and Byron Autrey to develop Benge style (French Besson style) trumpets for stencil under the Burbank name and also after 1981, the Kanstul name.

1981: Buffet is acquired by Boosey & Hawkes

1986: Boosey & Hawkes is acquired by Carl Fischer

2001: Carl Fischer’s extensive conglomerate of instrument makers shut down names including B&H. Besson continues.

2003: The Music Group, a venture capital entity, restructures the Carl Fischer companies. Besson designs and tooling were deliberately destroyed and the name moved to a new line of instruments built in India and other locations.

2006: The Music Group becomes insolvent. The Meinl family and Triumph Adler, which already owned B^S and other post-collective East block firms, acquires most of the brands including Buffet and Besson. The resultant Buffet-Crampon company controlled those plus Courtois and York. Besson production returned to Europe at Markneukirchen shortly thereafter.

2019: The tooling and records of the Kanstul company convey the Benge/F.Besson Legacy to BAC Musical Instruments. Autrey’s personal Benge and Kanstul horns, design notes, tools, etc. also transfer from his estate to BAC.

2020: BAC acquires the Benge trademark and begins building the culmination of the work of Besson, Benge, Schilke, Autrey and Kanstul with regard to classic Besson design. Modern Besson designs by Buffet continue, but with no design linkage to any prior Besson instruments

Distin-Keefer
1849: Henry Distin started making instruments in England while still part of his family ensemble that toured performing on Saxhorns.
1868: Distin workshop sold to music publisher Boosey & Co. which continued the serial numbers at the same address.
1876: After a couple years of blowing all his money on failed concert promotions and making a living playing and tending bar, Distin moved to the US to superintend at the "monster" Martin Pollman & Co. works in NYC. (This allowed partner JH Martin 2 years to go work at CG Conn and learn about modern instruments)
1878: Distin started making the same designs he had made in England in partnership with FW Busch in New York.
1880: Distin partnered with former Martin & Co. joint venture partner Moses Slater in New York.
1882: Distin moved to Pennsylvania and started Distin & Pincus, a publisher. Slater continued building the same horns under his own name without Distin.
1884: Henry Distin Manufacturing established in Philadelphia to make horns for JW Pepper.
1889: Distin Manufacturing moved to Williamsport
1890: Distin Manufacturing sold to shop superintendent, Brua C. Keefer.
1909: Name changed to Brua C. Keefer Company.
1960: A grass fire alongside the plant spread to the building. The company never reopened.

Frank Holton & Co.
1885: Sousa Band trombonist Frank Holton partnered with JW York, a former apprentice to Louis Hartman and Henry Esbach in the Keat/Graves/Wright tradition at Boston.
1887: York and Holton ceases operations, though was not closed out for many years.
1896: Holton starts a mail-order business selling his “Electric Oil” slide oil for trombones. It does not make money in its first 3 years
1898: Holton opens a small Chicago walk-up store selling instrumental supplies and used band instruments. A few cornets were assembled at the repair bench from a mix of purchased and fabricated parts.
1904: Holton relocated to an entire floor of 107 W. Madison in Chicago for more manufacturing space.
1906: The first half of the Holton factory on Gladys street was constructed. Virtuoso Earnst Couturier joins the firm as a promoter, road man, and possibly designer.
1911: The second half and adjacent shipping/receiving building opened. The New Holton Trumpet debuts as the first serious American orchestral trumpet.
1913: Couturier leaves Holton for a brief partnership with JW York to build the Wizard cornet.
1914: Gustav Heim handed his new assistant at Boston a 1914 New Holton Trumpet demonstrator, as the Austrian deserter had no trumpet of his own. This encouraged Vincent Bach to become a Holton artist.
1916: Couturier buys the William Seidel Band Instrument Company, renames it for himself, and starts building a line of pure conical bore instruments – even trombones. He moves it To LaPorte in 1918
1918: Over a weekend in October, all tooling was relocated to a new facility in Elkhorn Wisconsin, provided free of charge when the firm met a local payroll target – actually ahead of the deadline
1918-19: Holton built a neighborhood of houses to recruit key employees. His home anchored the end of the street, the other end of which ended at the door of the municipal building downtown.
1921: The Holton Revelation Trumpet, in production since December of 1919, was announced formally.
1923: Couturier loses his eyesight, and shortly thereafter his company to Lyon & Healy.
1924: 14 year old “child prodigy” Renold Schilke begins performing with the Holton-Elkhorn band, and apprenticing in brassmaking and gunsmithing at the factory.
1927: Schilke, his teacher Edward Llewellyn, and the Holton design team develop the Llewellyn model variant of the Holton Revelation. Elements of this design would influence the Martin Committee.
1928: Holton buys the defunct former Couturier shop for Lyon & Healy and establishes the Collegiate brand.
1929: The same team develops the first light-weight, very large bore, minimally braced, reversed construction trumpet with Kansas trumpeter and professor, Don Berry.
1932: After an unsuccessful rebranding as “Ideal”, Holton closes the LaPorte facility and moves production of Collegiate instruments to the Elkhorn plant.
1938: Frank Holton sells the company to long time employee Frank Kull.
1944: Frank Kull dies and is succeeded by his son Grover.
1957: Holton begins buying parts and complete built-to-spec horns from Courtois. French valves become commonplace on Holton horns – though not all models.
1965: Leblanc completes a 3-year acquisition of Holton – and promptly goes through 2 new model numbering schemes.
1971: Holton, as part of a wide range of artist-linked models, begins a line of 10 trumpets designed at an intermediate level for young fans of Maynard Fergusson. They become best-sellers.
1981: The Martin design team, by then another arm of Leblanc and charged with all R&D, copies an Elkhart Bach 37, selected at a local store, creating the specifications for the Holton T-101s
2004: Steinway Musical Instruments’ Conn-Selmer division acquires Leblanc
2007: Conn-Selmer halts production at Elkhorn, moving Holton French horns to Eastlake Ohio and merging the Holton brand with King and others on Eastlake low brass.

Vincent Bach Corporation
1914: While touring in Britain, cornet artist and Austrian Navy veteran Vincent Schrottenbach learns of the onset of World War One. A soldier behind enemy lines, he quickly books passage on a ship to the US under the name Vincent Bach to elude capture. There he performs with the Boston Symphony for a season, tours the West Coast in 1915, and settles in playing with the Met. He is drafted and becomes a bugle instructor for the US Army in 1918.
1918: Bach sets up a small mouthpiece making shop in the back of the New York Selmer store – probably the smartest move George Bundy made on behalf of his then employer.
1922: Bach incorporates.
1924: Bach begins experimenting in trumpet making, drawing on both the commonplace Besson of the time, and his Holtons.
1925: Bach makes his 45th horn for his new wife’s father, bandmaster Adam Staab (it was his second marriage)
1928: Bach moves out of a small storefront shop and into an actual factory building in the Bronx around serial number 1000.
1953: With an additional 10,000 serial numbers consumed, Bach relocates to a factory in Mt. Vernon New York.
1962: Bach sells the company to his one-time patron, the Selmer company, despite higher offers, and designs both a revised Stradivarius trumpet (the 180) and a new Bundy trumpet for them.
1963: In November, construction of 180s begins at Mt. Vernon while the former Buescher plant on Main Street in Elkhart is readied to relocate Bach to, as the rent charged by the Bach family on Mt. Vernon was considerable.
1965: Selmer moves Bach operations to Main Street in Elkhart.
1974: Selmer moves Bach operations, over time, to the facility on Industrial Drive in Elkhart. Two-piece casings and steel rim wires in 180s phase out over the next few years ending the “Early Elkhart” period.
2004: Steinway Musical Properties acquires Selmer, and with it Bach.
2010: The Bach “Artisan” 190 series trumpets are introduced, featuring a French bead and Early-Elkhart elements such as two piece casings. The non-Artisan “regular” 190s additionally feature steel rim wires.

@administrator said in Vinzenz Schrottenbach:

@OldSchoolEuph said in Vinzenz Schrottenbach:

@Dale-Proctor Yes, but the US entry into the war, generally thought to have been heavily influenced by a political marketing campaign highlighting the Lusitania, was not until April 1917. The ship was struck near shore by a single torpedo intended to cripple it. The massive loss of life was a result of loose coal dust not being properly cleaned-up in the bunkers which after being thrown into the air by the shock wave, detonated. This was used by American hawks to cast the German/Austrian side in a very negative light - quite effectively as we see by the actions of 1917.

[TANGENT]
The Germans had declared unrestricted submarine warfare against the USA at that point in time. The modern narrative is to frame the nation's entry into the war as a political move, something with which I have come to disagree. There are lots of fantastic lectures about the subject available on YouTube.

It is a very complex matter - though I would contend that political actions (such as governance itself) are inherently political.

The US at that time was deeply divided on many fronts - Bach's own Austro-Hungarian Empire was not much different. The world was debating extremes of capitalist and socialist concepts, moderates often finding no room just as today, driven by the socio-cultural impact of the industrial revolution. Rural populations were migrating to urban centers, which were expanding rapidly in an uncontrolled manner and the "wholesome" way of life of past generations was beset with all of the chaos, crime, congestion, and new social dynamics of that transition. In the US, the Jeffersonian concept of America (agrarian-subsistence, village-based, pacifist and isolationist society) had collided head-on with industrial reality when the US defeated one of the Great Powers (Spain) by blowing one of the world's top 3 navies out of the water while only sustaining a single casualty to a heart attack on the US side in a matter of hours (Manila Bay) in 1898. That event shook not just Jeffersonian America, but all of Europe - which suddenly had a new threat to contend with. It is a major driver behind why Bach had to serve a second tour on his military service, which had not been typical since the Franco-Prussian war ended. (WWI was his 3rd tour of military service - just on a different side).

It is worth mentioning here that the transformation of the American self-image from a Jeffersonian one to a world power also factors significantly in the emergence of the uniquely American long cornet at this time. I have written about this before, so I'll just some it up as "a bigger more powerful horn (and star voice of popular music, thus embodiment of the national cultural image) for a bigger more powerful nation".

The clash between urban and rural, industrial and agrarian, globalist and Jeffersonian manifested not just in the emergence of labor unions that altered forever how instruments are made (and the standard of living of an entire socio-economic strata), but in a clash between imperialist hawks and a strong neo-Jeffersonian isolationist/pacifist movement. The demographics of this clash were weighted significantly (though far from exclusively) male on the hawk side and female on the isolationist. As women could not vote at that time, the true conflict of desires in the country was not always evident in its political realities. This disenfranchisement and disconnect gave fuel to so-called "women's issues" like suffrage, temperance and the disastrous prohibition experiment in the US, and following WWI (which had women been able to vote the US likely would never have entered), an even stronger pacifist/isolationist movement that hamstrung Roosevelt's efforts to aid Britain and prepare the US military for the inevitable.

Bach's experiences in the middle of this must have been remarkable - seeing the same social dynamics playing out on opposite sides of the conflict, coping with the ultimately inescapable nature of it for him personally, and so on. One must wonder what impact on his approach to life that "no escape" experience may have had - certainly it probably emboldened him to persevere against terrible business odds during the depression - and probably helped foster his "whatever it takes" attitudes.

[Super-tangent] Actually, the Germanic nations had declared unrestricted warfare against shipping servicing/supplying the allied powers. Any nation, not just the US, was targeted thusly if it continued to engage in commerce with those powers. That view of "against the USA" is just another reflection of the globalist (inherently self-important) view that arose in the US in urban opposition to Jeffersonian ideals.

I just posted this excerpt from "A Timeline of Trumpets", pages 181-182 on TH in reply to a question about a Citation, and it occurred to me it was a good fit for this new section. (Before someone objects, I'm the author. When I republish it it doesn't count as plagiarism!)

Rudy’s father, J.R. Mück was an immigrant from a Moravian family that had been building brass instruments since 1875. Rudy himself had been born in Moravia in 1907, coming to the US with his family in 1911. Rudy played professionally in New York City as well as his work in the shop that opened sometime in the 1920s. The cushion-rim mouthpiece business launched around 1932, with the hand building of trumpets having already been underway as an extension of the instrument repair and customizing business. But when J.R Muck retired in 1936, Rudy set out to significantly expand as a maker.

With knowledge of the Bach design, as well as access to some of the craftsmen and all of the parts suppliers, Muck was well situated to build his “Citation” model trumpets as New York Bach clones. What is interesting is the variety of parts sources Muck employed. The valves of most appear to be from Blessing, as Bach also used on some of his horns, and the detailing of many of the casings is a stylized abstraction of the Bach appearance. Many horns feature the Bach stop rod on third with Bach posts, which to the present day are made in the Bach factory, suggesting that Bach actually supplied Muck parts at times. In the same location however, one can find distinctive Blessing posts or a third maker’s short ball posts, without any pattern other than the horns seemed to be built with what was available that day.

It appears that Muck assembled horns rather than making them. Blessing played a key role as a parts supplier throughout the time Rudy Muck owned the business. There are, however, also horns, particularly the “M” series models that have strong indications of being partially or completely assembled by Monke in Germany. While a few even have distinctive Monke valve casings, most still show the same stylized Bach turning. What is interesting is that Blessing valves, Blessing posts, two different styles of valve cap, and many other elements appear mixed-in randomly from horn to horn on these otherwise strongly Monke horns. It is possible that some were stencil and some were built in New York from parts – but equally plausible that Muck was shipping Blessing and Bach parts to Germany for their supplier to use, preserving both the look, and the random hand-built feel, of their product.

Muck serial numbers have baffled all who have tried to make sense of them. Muck instruments appear with no numbers, with 4-digit numbers, with 5-digit numbers and with two groupings of 6-digit serial numbers. However, the known sale dates of many of these horns all overlap. This is particularly true after Rudy Muck sold the business to Carl Fischer around 1950. Fischer already owned JW York in Grand Rapids Michigan, and that immediately added another parts supplier to the mix. While nothing can be proven conclusively, the 4-digit sequence seems to span the duration of the Muck Company under both owners and is likely the “core” serial number sequence. The 5-digit numbers align with Blessing part numbers during the period and may have come along with the valves, or perhaps, as can be seen in a handful of obvious Artists and Super-Artist stencils, with completed horns built under contract. The first block of 6-digit numbers aligns with York serials after the Fischer sale. The second block, appear to exist primarily on some of the “M” models, which also have 4-digit numbers routinely, and may be connected to Monke, though Monke does not seem to have had a rigid numbering system for their stencil work.

Thanks to the recollections of Niles Eldredge regarding his high school trumpet, a 4-digit 1959 Citation with the more elaborate but far rarer valve caps, we know that Fischer was procuring some Muck parts in the 50s from its York operation and Mario Marcone was assembling the finished product in New York at a Fischer facility. The York sourced valves are visually indistinguishable from Blessing sourced product, but York had a long history of making precise stencil product when contracted to do so.

It amazes me how much of this thread seems to equate energy required to produce a given dynamic with "takes more air". Seems like just another discussion of "resistance" in many respects.

When it come to actual fluid flow, there are two factors. For the equipment, the mouthpiece throat determines flow at a given pressure. The bore simply cannot be relevant because it is not the venturi. The other point at which flow can differ is the embouchure, with some folks needing more flow through to vibrate as greater energy into the horn is required to produce the desired result. At some point, these will come into conflict if the player is too inefficient in their part, and the pressure in the cup will exceed what the orifice at its base can flow, resulting in leaks around the edge.

But when a horn "takes more air", it is because we opt to increase the embouchure flow rate as a means of stepping up energy input to the horn, not because of some vacuum to fill with a 0.003" larger diameter tube. (Bach ML to L)

Notice the mix of makers as far as component parts on some of these examples.

When it comes to Muck, I wouldn't rule anything out. Like Rolls-Royce, what started out crafted in-house with some sub-assemblies supplied transitioned over time into a brand/company that was nothing but production coordination - no fabrication.

@conndirectorfan Sort of.
The first few have the pinkie hook (the Arigra being the most familiar of course), but not the bell garland. The LeGrand cornet has the same style bell garland (except it happens to be nickel on the LeGrand vs brass on the subject horn) but not the hook. The Amati on EBay has an interesting French bead rim and the pinkie hook looks like a middle school shop student's attempt at the Riedl design (wow would those sharp edges be good at preventing anyone applying pressure!), so there might be a very interesting story there (of loss of competence in the workforce and how that impacts build).

These do support the possibility that the subject horn is an Amati from the decade following collectivization.

I was contacted for information regarding "Tempo" 23756 back on mid October. The valve caps and some other details look mid-century, but could be earlier. The pinkie hook really stands out. It is of the same unique shape and style used by Anton Riedl of Graslitz. Also it has a garlanded rim on the bell, though a very subtle one (just a strip of brass trapped in the rim bead and tight to the flare about 1/2" wide). Riedl was among those firms decimated by the ethnic cleansing of Bohemia in 1945/6, but I believe did contribute some to Amati. Has anyone seen an Amati with a garland and a Riedl pinkie hook before?

@richard-iii said in Vintage Horn Eye Candy:

I just had to dig out my Conn 77A. Sorry no picture. It is a standard configuration for a cornet. The 76A, which replaced the 77A is quite a different design. The tuning slide, I'm guessing, is on the bell tubing? Anybody know of any other Conn cornet with that feature?

There are many many examples of tuning at the bell tail from Pan-American to Puje, including all of the opera-glass tuning Conns (That front slide is for quick change only on those, not tuning). This Martin Imperial is another and even manages to still keep it on the right hand side of the horn rather than the left hand most think of as the back.

@tptguy said in 40's Holton info:

@oldschooleuph Mostly looking for Revelation 45 stuff. Form I understand from the Trumpet- History site' the bell numbers ( at least early 40's to mid 50's) where actually references to the leadpipes and not the bells themselves. So are the bells the same,(same mandrel shape) with different numbers ? My '45 Rev. 45 and '46 Rev. 48 bells have a verry different sound to them when tapped lightly, with the 48 in original gold lacquer( rings like a bell) seems thicker and the 45 in raw brass( sounds more like a garbage can lid) feels lighter and thinner.
That said, even with all it's issues, the Rev.45 sounds great, crisp and bright, not far from the brightness of a '50 Olds Studio

The bells were similar between the 45s and the 48s, except that the 45 was choked (Per Holton literature of the early 50s). That being said, I have paired 48 bells just a couple years apart that are clearly different. 1940s brass supplies and tolerances made for significant variation horn to horn.

@tptguy said in 40's Holton info:

@tptguy Oldschool...

I ame using a Strad. rod with som snall hex nuts(NY Strad style, but smaller ) that a good buddy made special for me, the rod from Strads fit perfect on the holton and look to be the same 5-40 thread, also fits all my Holtons.... I think the Conn set ups are 6-32 or 6-36 thread, my 2 cents

Yes, most Conns I have seen are a larger thread - Connstellation nut sets that I have bought on EBay though were 5-40 and looked just like that (maybe the Chinese supplier got it wrong - haven't actually tried them on a Conn)

Parts for the 45/48 models are exceptionally rare. You also need to delineate between the pre-war and post-war models, as well as then between "Revelation" (reversed construction, lightly braced) and "Deluxe" (standard construction, heavily braced). This gets further complicated by the later 50s reassignment of the "Revelation" name to the next generation of what had been the "Deluxe" design.

The 48 leadpipe is the rarest of all because this was their first experiment with multiple inflexion points and at those points, the added frictional forces stressed the brass leading to cracking being common down the road. Parts horns are the best bet - but still don't come up very often.

Doesn't have to be the whole horn, does it?

@Dale-Proctor said in Books about Trumpets:

Yes, I have a rotary valve cornet, and there are return springs. Not on the valves themselves, but springs are involved in returning the valve to the straight through position. I was just responding to the bad joke Dr. Go was making a few posts ago.

Allen valves. Every time I see one of these (given how remarkably well some of these antiques still play) it really makes me wonder about valve alignments being mostly placebo. . . .

Ummm, anybody ever notice my avatar?

full disclosure though - I'm planning a second edition that will be about 20% larger, hopefully this spring.