Posts made by OldSchoolEuph

@ROWUK said in LOGGING-IN PROBLEMS:

I can log in with my MacMini, but no longer with my iPad. I have changed the password, reinstalled Safari, rebooted - it simply does not work. I have found no google info on similar issues.

I get the log in screen, enter user ROWUK and password, it just sits there.

I suspect some hidden credential that does not allow multiple devices. Probably a setting for the admin somewhere.

Since changing my password this Am as a test, I am now able to log in again and am logged in on 2 different machines concurrently.

Well, changing my password does indeed seem to do the trick.

Question is, what if you get locked out - create a new account all the time? Doesn't seem like a good approach.

I wonder if this situation has any connection to how much shorter the list of those posting these days is relative to the list of registered users . . . .

I started having the same problem a few months ago. This machine is "remembered" - can't log in from any other. A wrong entry is instantly responded to, but a correct set of credentials triggers a file download function instead of logging me in - and the downloaded file looks like a credential (not good from a security standpoint). Once my login on this PC expires, I will be locked out.

This may have something to do with the lack of posts.

This is very odd. I have never heard of anyone having a reaction to a fully gold plated piece - is something else perhaps contaminating it?

As for plastic, I have seen quite a few examples and the cheap ones tend to be just that. However, I was quite surprised (especially given that the plastic trumpet it came with was absolute garbage), but I found the piece that came with an Allora Aere to be surprisingly decent. The whole horn is about $120 new (not worth it) and used/broken they sell for $25-$50 as spare parts on EBay.

@administrator said in Vinzenz Schrottenbach:

@OldSchoolEuph said in Vinzenz Schrottenbach:

@Dale-Proctor Yes, but the US entry into the war, generally thought to have been heavily influenced by a political marketing campaign highlighting the Lusitania, was not until April 1917. The ship was struck near shore by a single torpedo intended to cripple it. The massive loss of life was a result of loose coal dust not being properly cleaned-up in the bunkers which after being thrown into the air by the shock wave, detonated. This was used by American hawks to cast the German/Austrian side in a very negative light - quite effectively as we see by the actions of 1917.

[TANGENT]
The Germans had declared unrestricted submarine warfare against the USA at that point in time. The modern narrative is to frame the nation's entry into the war as a political move, something with which I have come to disagree. There are lots of fantastic lectures about the subject available on YouTube.

It is a very complex matter - though I would contend that political actions (such as governance itself) are inherently political.

The US at that time was deeply divided on many fronts - Bach's own Austro-Hungarian Empire was not much different. The world was debating extremes of capitalist and socialist concepts, moderates often finding no room just as today, driven by the socio-cultural impact of the industrial revolution. Rural populations were migrating to urban centers, which were expanding rapidly in an uncontrolled manner and the "wholesome" way of life of past generations was beset with all of the chaos, crime, congestion, and new social dynamics of that transition. In the US, the Jeffersonian concept of America (agrarian-subsistence, village-based, pacifist and isolationist society) had collided head-on with industrial reality when the US defeated one of the Great Powers (Spain) by blowing one of the world's top 3 navies out of the water while only sustaining a single casualty to a heart attack on the US side in a matter of hours (Manila Bay) in 1898. That event shook not just Jeffersonian America, but all of Europe - which suddenly had a new threat to contend with. It is a major driver behind why Bach had to serve a second tour on his military service, which had not been typical since the Franco-Prussian war ended. (WWI was his 3rd tour of military service - just on a different side).

It is worth mentioning here that the transformation of the American self-image from a Jeffersonian one to a world power also factors significantly in the emergence of the uniquely American long cornet at this time. I have written about this before, so I'll just some it up as "a bigger more powerful horn (and star voice of popular music, thus embodiment of the national cultural image) for a bigger more powerful nation".

The clash between urban and rural, industrial and agrarian, globalist and Jeffersonian manifested not just in the emergence of labor unions that altered forever how instruments are made (and the standard of living of an entire socio-economic strata), but in a clash between imperialist hawks and a strong neo-Jeffersonian isolationist/pacifist movement. The demographics of this clash were weighted significantly (though far from exclusively) male on the hawk side and female on the isolationist. As women could not vote at that time, the true conflict of desires in the country was not always evident in its political realities. This disenfranchisement and disconnect gave fuel to so-called "women's issues" like suffrage, temperance and the disastrous prohibition experiment in the US, and following WWI (which had women been able to vote the US likely would never have entered), an even stronger pacifist/isolationist movement that hamstrung Roosevelt's efforts to aid Britain and prepare the US military for the inevitable.

Bach's experiences in the middle of this must have been remarkable - seeing the same social dynamics playing out on opposite sides of the conflict, coping with the ultimately inescapable nature of it for him personally, and so on. One must wonder what impact on his approach to life that "no escape" experience may have had - certainly it probably emboldened him to persevere against terrible business odds during the depression - and probably helped foster his "whatever it takes" attitudes.

[Super-tangent] Actually, the Germanic nations had declared unrestricted warfare against shipping servicing/supplying the allied powers. Any nation, not just the US, was targeted thusly if it continued to engage in commerce with those powers. That view of "against the USA" is just another reflection of the globalist (inherently self-important) view that arose in the US in urban opposition to Jeffersonian ideals.

@Dale-Proctor Yes, but the US entry into the war, generally thought to have been heavily influenced by a political marketing campaign highlighting the Lusitania, was not until April 1917. The ship was struck near shore by a single torpedo intended to cripple it. The massive loss of life was a result of loose coal dust not being properly cleaned-up in the bunkers which after being thrown into the air by the shock wave, detonated. This was used by American hawks to cast the German/Austrian side in a very negative light - quite effectively as we see by the actions of 1917.

Wow, what a moment in history.

That shows Bach on tour in England in 1914 holding the Besson cornet he arrived in the US with (and which subsequently disappeared from the Bach plant after being acquired and handed over to the company). This is moments before the onset of WWI would force Bach to choose between being arrested as an enemy combatant (he was an Austrian Navy reservist), or fleeing to the US on the Lusitania a couple years before its sinking would bring the US into that war and draft Bach into an Army in combat with the military in which he had, and technically should have been, serving. He won the assistant principal trumpet slot in Boston auditioning on that horn in his hands - says a lot about his skills.

@flugelgirl said in Recommendations for used silverplated professional trumpet:

B&S is another to consider - quite well made, but don’t generally go for high prices in the American market.
As far as Jupiter XO valves, go, though - I have seen zero issues. We regularly get them new, show demo, and very used, and though I have seen plenty of plating wear primarily from those that have been in the hands of sweaty kids, I have yet to see valve problems from the heavily used. I see hundreds per year now in all conditions, so a pretty good cross section.

I have definitely seen Jupiter monel valves with major issues - porosity to be specific. I posted a detailed analysis of what was going on with photos back on TM - unfortunately gone now. I still have the horn from that and both the failed and the replacement set of pistons that were sent no questions asked (service rep sounded like it was a common issue). I have seen a couple of others over the intervening years as well - though Jupiter backed away from monel, so it has dropped off.

I am stunned to see such low values on Courtois Evos and some others. Courtois was the oldest trumpet maker in existence before Buffet (Meinl) wiped them out and made the name a trombone stencil in order to clear the way for their B&S brand (that would never have been able to compete in the pro market otherwise in Europe). Be it defining the Victorian era cornet with their Arbuckle design, or some of the first top-notch C trumpets, the mid-century Leblanc horns like the Sonics, all the way to the Evolution series, Courtois consistently built top tier horns (and a full line most of the time all the way down to entry level - often for others to stencil). These prices are a fantastic bargain.

Wow, if remarkably benign, typical, and non-controversial threads need to be locked as a routine practice, that's a sad commentary on this forum.

@grune said in Is Air Needed To Play The Trumpet:

To produce a pressure from the trumpet, we need to apply a pressure into the trumpet/tube. For most of us, this means we must blow air into the tube. But, the tube must resist the air we apply: else no pressure will result.

Not exactly. Our embouchure must resist air movement if vibration is to result, but the pressure waves from that vibration perpetuate in air thanks to the inertia of that mass of air, not any raceway resistance to flow. Raceway backpressure just makes it easier for us to produce vibration with our lips.

To produce a frequency, we need to apply a vibration to the tube: for us, the source is our lips. For most of us, we need to exhale air against closed lips to produce a vibration/frequency.

Yes, although trumpet tone is the application of that vibration to the air column shaped by the tube, not so much the brass tube itself.

Unfortunately, the science we learn in high school is erroneous, and thus people carry this throughout their lives. Sound is always depicted via 2-dimensional graph as a line to form a 'wave'; this pictorially presents sound to have a frequency we can measure, but excludes entirely the factor of pressure. But here is a simple fact: sound is 3-dimensional and 2-factored.

Perhaps over-simplified would be a better term. 2-dimensional representation of pressure over time is not in itself erroneous.

What we hear as high pitch from a trumpet is a function of both frequency and pressure: ie greater vibration and greater pressure, from the player. To achieve this, many factors must be combined. One factor is the resistance of the trumpet to help us create greater pressure. Thus, a trumpet requires bends in the pipes; the bends assist to create pressure. If the right pressures are achieved, what we call 'partials' can result. This is why a trumpet having a D-shaped lead pipe will be easier to play for high notes than one having a semi-circular C lead pipe.

Pitch is a function of the periodic frequency of pressure variation. Greater frequency creates higher pitch. Greater pressure creates higher volume (the auditory meaning of volume, not the geometric). The properties of square, D and single-radius slides impact the way in which the energy damping functions of both the structure of the instrument, and the transition from laminar to turbulent flow and back again, require us to add more energy, more intense vibration, to the air column at a given pitch, or as we change pitch. These can particularly affect the ease with which by altering the input spectrum, that pink noise of frequencies produced at the embouchure, we shift the natural resonance of the system to bend notes. The less abrupt the geometry, the easier bending is to achieve generally (but never count on anything as complex as a trumpet behaving consistently in response to a single variable given the intricacies of design)

For anyone who may doubt the above, kindly ponder why the flame produces a sound exiting the glass tube; when the flame itself consumes air and burns without a vibration.

The air is not consumed. Oxygen is consumed and replaced primarily with carbon dioxide. The mass and volume of the air actually increase as a result of the addition of the carbon (and heat).

There is a difference between needing a mass of air - which yes, you need that trumpet-shaped mass to resonate, and you need a room filled with air for the sound waves to reach the audience - and needing MOVING air, which you do not as is commonly demonstrated with some of the spectral analysis tools now available that use so-called piezo transducers at the mouthpiece (little electric buzzers). Schilke told us this a long time ago (his 3rd sentence here https://everythingtrumpet.com/schilke/Practical_Physics.html )

The unequaled expert on all things Bach, Roy Hempley, passed away last week after a long illness. I'll post here what I added to the thread at TH:

The last conversation I had with Roy was one of our rare actual conversations. Those who know me, know I am an email and IM person, but when Roy responded just saying “it’s too hard to deal with the computer, just call me”, I knew things had gotten bad and, of course, switched to the phone.

When he invited me to join him at the Bach plant in late 2017 to look over all of the new investments Paulson was making with Tedd as our host, he was already struggling and the sense of urgency, as if it might be his last time at the plant he loved, told me what he would shortly after, that the situation was indeed not good.

Roy was an immense help to me with my research, website and book - and really to all of us. He was our conduit into Conn-Selmer and the now faceless Bach corporation that with Tedd’s retirement and Roy’s illness and now passing, will simply be less open to the community it depends upon. The debt Conn-Selmer owes to Roy for being their connection to the Bach community all these years is something that no company can possibly hope to repay.

I encourage everyone to read, make notes on, and maybe even save your own cached copy of all of the papers at vincentbachsworld.com. These papers are the history of Bach. If you want to understand Bach, these are the foundation on which to build. Roy’s engineering precision allowed him to develop an understanding of the technical differences that only Vince himself would have been able to match.

So long as Conn-Selmer continues to respond to requests for shop cards, Bach owners will keep benefiting from Roy’s dedication to the art and to Bach. Every shop card you have seen with a black background, that is thanks to Roy. It was Roy who spent the countless hours to scan 30,000 shop cards for Conn-Selmer. With his passing, I don’t know if I will ever buy another vintage Bach – I always went to Roy to find out how it was built before I bid. . . (he had his own copy of the data)

Roy was an engineer – but he was a musician behind that veneer. When the two came together, we all got a music historian with the technical mindset and discipline to both not accept anything as fact without data, and the experience and resources to then go get the data. Roy taught me the three key things every Bach aficionado, and every instrumental historian for that matter, needs to always remember:

1. Bach was a tinkerer and a perfect blend of engineer and blacksmith. He always was looking to see what would happen if . . . . And there are a lot of horns out there manifesting that curiosity.
2. Great playing horns are rarely preserved in original condition. Vintage Bachs more often than not have been significantly altered from the original. You cannot draw any firm line in serials or time for any Bach feature, as both Bach, and owners, constantly tinkered.
3. Should you not fully accept #2, Roy’s great quote I use on my website: “Just when you think you’ve got it figured out, a horn comes along to prove you wrong”.

I was working on trying to better quantify the significant break-points in Bach’s design with Roy’s help. It is far more difficult than you can imagine as there simply are not break points. Roy was cautious for that reason, but generously provided me with tremendous support even while fighting his illness. At a minimum I will have to follow through on my commitment to rewrite the Bach page on Wikipedia to more accurately reflect that approach rather than factory locations defining periods. (just have to get to it). There simply is no-one else who truly understands the mind of Vincent Bach the way Roy did, and for those of us in the field of instrumental history, his loss is immeasurable. Now we will have to figure it out for ourselves. Roy’s dedication of his experience, skills, considerable funds, and most of all so much time, is something I don’t think we will see matched again soon – and so far beyond what even any maker was ever willing to commit to support its loyal customers.

Roy’s only reward for dedicating his post-employment life to the legacy of Vincent Bach, and let’s make no mistake, he gave the majority of his retirement hours right up to his final days to that endeavor, was not in any recognition (sorely lacking) from Conn-Selmer, nor in any form of profit (he spent a fortune), nor even in more than passing recognition by fellow enthusiasts. Roy found his reward for his actions in his personal interactions with, often very young, new trumpet players, often with their first hand-me-down Bach, who found joy in better understanding their instrument, or in his help in discovering one that fit them even better. Roy manifested the exact opposite of the selfishness endemic in the American society he has just left.

Roy was a mentor, a colleague and a friend. I will miss him greatly.

@neal085 said in Welcome Thread:

So I was scrolling through our current members, and it appears that roughly half of the TB members have never posted anything to the site. In the context of infusing fresh members with their thoughts and questions, could we add a Welcome/Introduce Yourself thread in its own category to the home page?

I remember there was one that was fairly visible on TM, and it seemed to help usher in the new users and make them feel comfortable to start posting on other threads.

If there is already such a thread on here, and I just missed it, please carry on, and/or make it more visible on the home page.

Here's anther possibility - users on the list who cannot post anymore because they cannot log in. I am "remembered" on one laptop, thus I can post this. But on 3 other machines, using Internet Explorer, Edge, Chrome or Safari, while invalid credentials are immediately noted and I am prompted to try again, if I enter valid credentials, the site tries to trigger a download of some sort instead of actually processing login. Most browsers just freeze. The ones that let me download the file and look at it show me something that looks like a cookie, or perhaps some authentication string meant for some process. When I lose this channel, I wont be able to post anymore.

@Kehaulani said in Caring for Silver Plate Horns:

@Dr-GO said in Caring for Silver Plate Horns:
I have noted this as well. I have kept my horns now mounted on a wall (slat board with supports) for 5 years and they do not tarnish near as often.

No tarnish but they're filled with cockroaches.

They're not as disconcerting as those scorpions...

@ROWUK said in Vernacular (of range):

Traditionally, octaves have ALWAYS started on C. The 4 foot/8 foot/16 foot registers all refer to concert C. A 32 foot organ pipe refers to a C.

If C is the start of an octave, everything else is clear once we decide what to call the C. Here is where tradition has left us with multiple options. C0 to C9 is very clear, but makes it difficult to brag to the uneducated.

For a trumpeter, it is common to refer to pedal C (2nd space bass clef), low C(one line below the treble clef), mid C (third space), high C(2 ledger lines above the treble clef) and double C (an octave above that).

The devils advocate would say that the typical trumpeters double C is only a high concert Bb...

To confuse the hell out of this: Tubas are sold as BB or CC tubas - double Bb or double C;-)

I always thought that organ ranks started with the long C pipe and got shorter from there (higher). So that system would then mean that "Low B" is in the middle of the staff, and "Pedal B" is right under "Low C" just below the staff. I dont think of a normally played note as being "Pedal", nor of notes below pedal C being "double pedal" tones. So for this system to work, and it does best in my opinion, unlike the organ, you would have to start at "____ C" and go down (adding length as the horn does, so respecting that the notes are effectively derivatives of that above).

While I certainly dont run in Rowuk's circle, pedal notes down to E below pedal C in Bb terms have been a normal, utilized, part of my playing range since I was 7 years old. I dont think discounting them is realistic.

@Kehaulani said in Vernacular (of range):

I'm not talking about how many syllables one uses. I'm talking about brevity in using one terminology that everyone understands, rather than working one's way around various terminologies.

And there we come full circle back to the problem demonstrated by abundant posts here and at TH - no one understands!

@Vulgano-Brother said in Vernacular (of range):

@Dr-GO, in contemporary German brass-lingo we called a double high C a "C5," (B4 concert pitch) and the pedal C a "C1."

International Standards (ISO) name the C below the treble staff and above the bass as "middle C." (That makes sense because it is in the middle between the two staves.) Middle C is C4. Pedal C is C3 and C in the staff a C4.

Played Bach and Handel with a couple other trumpet players on A piccolo trumpets and our first rehearsal was something by Handel, so the parts were notated in C. Took us a while to figure out that one of us was talking in sounding pitch, one in written pitch and one in A. Depending on who you asked, the same note could be a "D"," "C" or "F."

I have trouble looking at anything other than what I am hearing. I either use C parts or take extra time to fight the transposition (I have more trouble with Bb than any of the others I have had to work with) and memorize. That 1 step offset from what I am hearing just makes me crazy.

Yoda communicated just fine that way.

One can analyze the dynamics of history on many levels and many complex interactions, but such a minor distinction in grammatical form does not explain anything in that regard. The German language is perhaps viewed by some as a little more aggressive due to the frequent use of the imperative, but that is the naturally evolved compensation for that grammar and annuls any minuscule time-delay impact.

While not explaining the outcome on the battlefield, the German language, in addition to its precursors being absolutely critical to the emergence of the English language, plays a major role in the shaping of modern Europe as a geopolitical entity. Unlike many languages that derive from a single tribal dialect through conflict, conquest and assimilation, the German language is unique in that it created its society rather than the other way around. The post-Roman Germanic principalities, and there were a lot of them, largely reflected the diversity of the pre-Roman central European tribes. Religion and technology created the concept of a singular German people (far more than later psuedo-scholars would try to say Tacitus did) through Luther's translation of the Bible into a more prevalent lingual form, and the printing press facilitating the widespread availability of the Gutenberg Bible, giving peoples with very different colloquial and outright variants a common form. As late as the Franco-Prussian war, Prussian was still very different from what we know as German. Decades later it evolved into a form that took its name from Prussian script Sütterlin that only became extinct after the Allies gave Poland most of Prussia in exchange for the Russians taking much of traditional Poland.

Even today, if you put someone from Berlin in a room with someone from Munich, and they speak only colloquial forms, they have only a little more in common with each other than they do with someone from Amsterdam (exaggeration, but....)

The German language has shaped the Western world, in very positive ways. It has never encumbered or held back any society and based on history, appears to actually be what an evolutionary scientist would call a successful adaptation.

First, to the OP: so happy to hear your Mom is doing well. There are things that matter a ____ of a lot more than trumpet.

BUT: when things are going rough, sometimes it can be just what we need. When things are starting to feel busy, but normal, it can be just what we need. When things are starting to feel like a void, it can be just what we need.

There are multiple types of trumpet player (or instrumentalist, or musician for that matter). First those who work at it like any other career, obsessed with advancement, or at least security. Next, those that cannot tolerate anything other than perfection of themselves, and for whom playing becomes a nightmare of worry that "it wont be good enough". Then comes the fortunate majority (I believe) who recognize that our playing, however imperfect, can maybe bring joy to others, and certainly does to ourselves.

Most who reap the benefits of instrumental music in their lives are in that last category. We may go many years without it, but then discover what we have missed. I have had many years of constant playing, and quite a few where it was only maintaining my now 46 consecutive Christmas Eves that had me playing at all that year. I would not trade it for anything. Going and picking up a horn and playing just for me, that is reward in itself.

However much time off is in your history, it is not a liability, certainly not something to deny, it just is. Celebrate instead that music is again in your life, and when things get harder, remember all that simply accepting and enjoying the experience can bring to you in that moment.