In search of “my horn.”
-
One of my very early trumpet influences was Herb Alpert. It may have come from listening to my father’s Kenton, Maynard Ferguson, Ellington, and Basie records, but I noticed the difference in Herb’s sound. It was almost always soft, warm, round, and dark, “El Solo Toro” notwithstanding. Of course I was 7 and so I didn’t understand the whole concept of a personal style or sound. Later however, I did, and after digging on Maynard, Doc, and others, when I first heard Miles Davis’ “Birth,” “Relaxin,” and others, I began to incorporate that compact style in to my own playing.
4 decades later the trumpet sound that I find so sublime, the sound I still try to incorporate in to my own, at least in solo or small ensemble work, is that same warm, dark sound, never brassy, never bright, no shimmer, no edge. When I listen to Chris, or Roy, or Domenic playing in that style, it just slays me.
I didn’t realized it until I got my Benge back from our place in Denver (where it had been since before the shutdown), but as much as I appreciate the quality, consistency, and many other positive attributes of my Miyashiro, it’s just not the horn for me. It’s just too bright. The Benge is comparatively darker, although still not exactly what I’m looking for. My Committee is certainly capable of producing those kinds of sound, but candidly it’s a real bear to play, and especially in the big band, the intonation is too much work. I’m an amateur trumpet player, and an aging one that. I love my vintage horns but I do appreciate the help that is offered by modern horns. I’m basically looking for a horn which in a blind sound test might make the listener think “is he playing a trumpet or a flugelhorn?”
And so I have embarked on a “horn safari.” If cost and availability were not an issue I’d go see the wizards up at Monette, but those things are an issue and so I’m left to search other options.
The only horn I’ve played recently (NAMM 2020) that left an impression of being close to what I am looking for was the Adams A4. That said, I’m open to others. Of course the challenge is that most of the horns I’m considering are somewhat “custom” and I’m thousands of miles from places like Austin Custom Brass so my ability to take one for a test drive is based on having one sent to me, and then facing several hundred dollars in restocking and shipping fees.
Josh at ACB recommended that I try the new Boehme Tumultus, and it looks and sounds interesting (based on what I’ve read and Trent’s test drive). I’ve looked for other options including the new Schilke Handcraft, and some of the Getzens. Yamaha does not make anything close to what I want, which is a bummer because I’ve found their quality and consistency to be outstanding.
At the risk of opening a hornet’s nest, what do y’all think? I am not a lead player and have no desire to be. I have my Benge which works very well in situations which require more consistent ensemble sound, and I play a Monette Prana B6S1 mouthpiece.
Suggestions?
-tj
Lotus Solo Max
82 Benge MLP
74 Conn Director
71 Bach 37
56 Martin Committee Deluxe (large bore)
45 Blessing Artist
84 DEG 2v G bugle (SCV Alumni Corps ax)
Adams F2 Flugelhorn
Courtois 154 Flugelhorn -
The A4 is a great horn, but it’s also pretty heavy, and not super nimble in the upper register especially for a part time player. The A4LT is a bit easier that way in all regards, but the new A1 would probably be a good bet as well. Yesterday we got in the new version of the Yamaha LA model which has some significant changes with the heavier valve block and heavy bronze caps. Much more stability than the previous model. If you like Bach, you might like the 43B - great commercial sound but can still blend in a section. Things to consider! Another thing to consider is a mouthpiece match for the horn. No reason you can’t have an all-around, a lead, and a super dark flugel cheater for solos!
-
As you are into vintage horns anyway - the Benge shows it - why not try something less pricey than a Committee or a new Adams or Schilke? I'm not a fan of bright and brassy myself - my hero was and is Maurice André - so I'm deep into French vintage horns. Yes, my main axe is an Olds Recording for Big Band; but for anything soft and warm, I get out my Buescher 264 (warm, velvety sound, yet slotting perfectly) or my Courtois Balanced. That one seems to know beforehand what I want to do... and of course there are several Stomvi horns out there that play warm and without sharp edges. I've just secured a Courtois Chambord cornet... still in the post...
-
@tjveloce Well, in TJB days Herb Alpert usually played a Benge, although it was manufactured considerably earlier than yours was. A mouthpiece safari might get you closer to the sound you're trying to duplicate, but ultimately your sound is going to be uniquely yours, as Herb's is his own. The sound that comes out of a wind instrument is the combination of player and instrument, with many variables to consider.
As far as which trumpets Herb Alpert played/plays, I did a quick https://duckduckgo.com/ search and came up with this from A&M: https://forum.amcorner.com/threads/what-trumpet-did-herb-alpert-play.1588/
-
Have you ever thought of buying a cornet? The Getzen 3850 is a very good, mellow one and isn’t terribly expensive.
1977 Bach Strad ML 43 trumpet
1960 Conn 6B Victor trumpet
1982 Bach Strad ML 239 C trumpet
1970 Olds Ambassador Eb/D trumpet
1993 Bach Strad L 184G cornet
1962 Conn 9A Victor cornet
1890 Besson A/Bb/C cornet
1870? Henry Lehnert SARV cornet -
@tjveloce said in In search of “my horn.”:
I’m basically looking for a horn which in a blind sound test might make the listener think “is he playing a trumpet or a flugelhorn?”
OK. So try this..... Put a flugel mouthpiece on a cornet. My Yamaha flugel mouthpieces fit on my Schilke cornet just fine, and that combination produces a vaguely "flumpet-ish" tone. It plays in tune and is easier to control than the flugelhorn. I don't do it very often, but it works in some situations. The flugel mouthpieces are much deeper than cornet mouthpieces and they make a big difference to the sound.
-
Have you tried the Bach 190-37? The sound is very rich, and it can blend with just about anything. It's a little heavier than a Severinsen or Schilke but not like some of the super-expensive Mega Horns. Certainly doesn't have a bright, brassy sound.
-
Interesting thread. I like dark, and I get that in spades with my Conn Vintage 1 and my Buescher 400. But if I want the flugel sound I simply play my ACB doubler.
-
@tjveloce said in In search of “my horn.”:
I’m basically looking for a horn which in a blind sound test might make the listener think “is he playing a trumpet or a flugelhorn?”
A CURRY TF Mouthpiece might be a cost effective alternative.
-
A flumpet.
-
@dale-proctor said in In search of “my horn.”:
Have you ever thought of buying a cornet? The Getzen 3850 is a very good, mellow one and isn’t terribly expensive.
+1
-
@tjveloce said in In search of “my horn.”:
...I have my Benge which works very well in situations which require more consistent ensemble sound, and I play a Monette Prana B6S1 mouthpiece.Suggestions?
-tj
TJ, sounds like you answered your own question. The Benge is you!
Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
Harrelson Summit 2017
Kanstul 1526 2012
Getzen Power Bore 1961
Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
Martin Committee 1946
Olds Super Recording 1940
Olds Recording (LA) 1953
Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
Olds Ambassador 1965 -
Interesting perspective that "my horn" is really someone else's horn that the listener tends to admire. That was what roped me into the Getzen 4-valve Etena. Was a real fan of Rick Braun, and at the time I was in the market for a flugelhorn, that is the horn I chose and he is the reason why. However, I sound like me on it, not like Rick Braun, and I am OK with that.
Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
Harrelson Summit 2017
Kanstul 1526 2012
Getzen Power Bore 1961
Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
Martin Committee 1946
Olds Super Recording 1940
Olds Recording (LA) 1953
Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
Olds Ambassador 1965 -
Well that’s partly true. The Benge is more me than the Miyashiro, but it’s still brighter than I’d like. Point is, if there was a situation in which my “next horn” is too dark for the ensemble, I have the Benge as well as the Recording if I need to brighten things up a bit.
-tj
@dr-go said in In search of “my horn.”:
@tjveloce said in In search of “my horn.”:
...I have my Benge which works very well in situations which require more consistent ensemble sound, and I play a Monette Prana B6S1 mouthpiece.Suggestions?
-tj
TJ, sounds like you answered your own question. The Benge is you!
-
Oh yeah, I don’t want to go down that philosophical rat hole, because it leads to all kinds of conundrums, such as “is ‘my sound’ the sound that naturally comes out of my horn, or is it the sound that I want to have come out of my horn after years of playing other people’s music the sound of which I’ve either agreed or disagreed with, then tossed the disagreeable characteristics out and kept the agreeable components, thus inculcating someone else’s sound but tempered and tinged with the elements of my own equipment, age, physiognomy and perspective….damn my brain hurts now.
-tj
@dr-go said in In search of “my horn.”:
Interesting perspective that "my horn" is really someone else's horn that the listener tends to admire. That was what roped me into the Getzen 4-valve Etena. Was a real fan of Rick Braun, and at the time I was in the market for a flugelhorn, that is the horn I chose and he is the reason why. However, I sound like me on it, not like Rick Braun, and I am OK with that.
