My Adams F2 in brushed copper.
-tj in the Cruz Mtns
Re-entry Jazz Acolyte. Plays 4th trumpet in Footnotes Big Band. My favorite musicians are in no particular order, Miles, Kenny, Lee Morgan, Dominick, Aubrey Logan, Duke, Count, Thad, Sammy, and Maria. Alumnus of 1984 Santa Clara Vanguard and 2017 Santa Clara Vanguard Alumni Corps
Apologies for the repost. I'd hoped to get the thread I started here but in lieu of that here's what I posted.
This is "TJ," aka "the chief gearhead" on Trumpet Master.
A few days after TrumpetMaster bit the wax termite, my Martin Committee arrived. Like many, I hoped it would return, thinking perhaps it was just another brief outage.
Like you, I'm also a member of TH, but for some reason TM was where I posted the most. I just happened upon some topics others were interested in, and discussions ensued.
Since trumpet pedagogy is complex even when discussed in person, the discussions I found most interesting where equipment focused, specifically threads about vintage horns. I loved the vintage horns "eye candy" thread, and also the Martin Committee "Club."
So first things first, I'm not trying to recreate another MCC, but I would like to solicit the opinions and knowledge of those who either play or have experience with these horns, because quite candidly, I'm absolutely smitten with my recent acquisition, and even the story of how I found her is a good one. If ever there was a horn which lived up to its hype, at least from my perspective, the Martin Committee does so swimmingly.
I'd been wanting to play one for years, starting back when I was a young lad. Then, after my return to playing, and my love of vintage horns (I have a 53 Olds Recording which I bought from the daughter of the original owner) I began searching for a Committee, specifically one from the "preferred era." I played a couple Medium Bore horns, and found them similar enough to my Olds that I didn't see a reason to pursue them.
After searching the usual online marketplaces I found one in, of all places, Facebook Marketplace. Had the seller not been a music professor, author of trumpet methodology books, and mutual friends of a couple people whom I hold in the highest esteem, I'd likely have moved on. But he is all those things, and after a couple FB messages I committed to buy the horn. He was in fact not the seller, but was representing the seller, who was a 70 year old woman, who had owned the horn since 1965 when her mother bought it for her at a used music store in Texas. The previous owner was, according to her, a local musician who played in jazz clubs in the area. She played it in high school honor band, and then apparently put it away and didn't do anything with it for.....50 years.
It is a large bore "Deluxe" model, SN 194587, which puts its build date sometime in 1956 as far as I can tell.
During the week that it took for it to arrive, I completely geeked out on the horn, reading and re-reading what little has been written about them. At this point TM was gone, so I could not read about it there, although occasionally I'd read it through Google archives.
When the horn arrived, I heard the UPS truck at our gate, and then saw my wife walking up the driveway with the box in her hands. She too had been looking forward to its arrival, because she loves me and because, well, she was probably tired of me saying "you know what happens in 2 days?"
I opened the box, opened the sadly non-original case, put my mouthpiece in the receiver, and blew air in to it. After quickly slightly modifying my approach to the kind of air the horn wants, I immediately realized that this horn is unlike any other horn I've ever played, and I was in love. I can't really put in to words how it feels, but the way it resonates and the feeling in my embouchure are large, round, sonorous, without edge, dark, and rich.
The horn is in very good condition mechanically. The valves are fast and not badly worn, and there are only a couple small signs of repair. The only disappointing aspect of it is that someone buffed and re-lacquered the bell, making the beautiful engraving hard to see. There's still enough left for an experienced artist to touch up, and that's what I intend to do, as soon as I am willing to go without having it for a couple weeks. I sent it to my local brass tech to have the bent lead pipe straightened and the horn cleaned, and I washed it in hot water which removed the old cellulose lacquer.
I bought a set of Harrelson's mouthpiece gap shim kit and have been trying different gaps. With my Monette Classic Resonance MP the gap was .226", which by all accounts is way too large, and which strangely made the horn very sharp. With the gap reduced to <.100" it's much better, although still slippery and still produces the known flat 2/3 valve combo sound.
Here are some photos...I'll update the thread when I have more to share. Oh, by the way, I found a woman who can do the engraving through Robb Stewart, and I spoke with her.
-tj in the Cruz Mtns
The seller is a friend and someone whose integrity I can personally vouch for. I’m happy to conduct a play/visual examination as he is local. I’m also a Committee owner/player.
A friend of a dear friend had an old Blessing Artist that had belonged to her dad. She offered it to me and I graciously accepted it. It's a bit banged up but plays nicely. With a few dents removed and things straightened it will be a neat old horn. The serial number is 40756 which seems to indicate a pre-1946 build date (perhaps 44 or 45).
Curiously the horn came in a Conn case, which I'm assuming is non-original. Does anyone recognize the case?
-tj in the Cruz Mtns
This discussion is similar to those that I have about watches and vintage Alfa Romeos, both products made in an era where things were written by hand if at all, which were manufactured in low numbers and which were never expected to become valuable, collectible items.
It’s true that people consider the best years of the Committee to be during the time period you cite. It’s also true that some people believe those same Committees are inferior to the Handcraft versions of the late 30s and early 40s. I’ve never played a Handcraft so I can’t comment on that, but logic would dictate that later horns would be better in terms of quality and consistency. Technology, metallurgy, assembly techniques and other macro-economic factors (post-war worker sentiment, pay, and empowerment) would seem to lead to a more efficient company, and thus a better product.
As for its quality, it remains a Martin Committee. You’re right that it probably shouldn’t be silver, although I’ve occasionally seen other silver examples. If it was made in 63 as the SN indicates, it is an RMC horn, but depending on the exact year of the acquisition, it could be that the case is year appropriate, although I can’t make out the “Wurlitzer badge” and you’re right, it’s not the tan case of the 50s.
What I do know is that I’ve got a fair number of hours on my 56, and that yesterday I played both back to back, and last night sat in my chair with one in each hand comparing them. My 56 is, as far as I can tell, nearly 100% original as the person I bought it from had owned it since 1964 and it was purchased used from a music store in that year.
The only differences I can find in the silver horn are the first valve “kicker” and the shape of the finger hook on the lead pipe, which is just a slightly more abbreviated “C” than on mine. The engraving is obviously new and was done after the horn was plated.
Shawn from Brass Cellar did not question its authenticity or value, stating that rebuilds are becoming more expensive and that the work on the horn alone probably cost $1500+.
What’s most important is the way it plays, and it plays beautifully. It is unmistakably “Committee” in every way, and again, very similar to the things we love and put up with when compared to my 56.
When I hold it in my hands I can’t feel like I am a fool for not buying it, because I don’t think I’ll ever find a better example of a Committee at any price.
I was playing a 2 valve G bugle but without a doubt my favorite musical memory was being part of the Santa Clara Vanguard 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps and our performance at the end of DCI Semi-Finals at Lucas Oil Stadium on August 11th, 2017.
Well I'm sad to see it gone...as others have pointed out, there was a lot of great information and personality to that forum. I owned a social networking domain and site once and we got Distributed Denial Of Service attacks numerous times, which would then cause the hosting service to take us offline. I hope that didn't happen to TM.
In any event, it's nice to see some familiar names here. I was "chiefgearhead" on TM.
-tj in the Cruz Mtns
Monette mouthpieces are gold plated, and while I was a skeptic before I became a customer, I’m now sold. The way they feel on your chops is, in my view, worth it, along with they way they work for me. They’re about $400 for the Prana model if memory serves and I use one in my flugelhorn and one in my trumpet.
I bought this horn several years ago from the daughter of the original owner, whose parents bought it for him new in 1954. Since then I have acquired several other horns and the Olds sits in my closet. As much as I love this horn and its story, it does not make sense for me to own it. It needs to be played and appreciated more frequently and not treated like a museum piece.
The horn is in excellent mechanical condition, with no dents and beautiful patina. It includes the original case, financing paperwork and two vintage mouthpieces and mutes.
More photos and information available upon request.
$1700 + Shipping and Insurance from the Bay Area.
UPDATE: Price reduced to $1800.
Disclaimer-I have no interest in this horn past my promise to the owners to help find it a worthy home. I’m also lack recent experience/knowledge about cornets so the words that follow are merely my opinion, and hardly objective. Some of the information I present to you comes from the sellers based on research that they’ve done, and some comes from knowledgeable members of this forum.
This horn is the automotive equivalent of a “barn find.” If you’re unfamiliar with the term, it is used in the classic car world to describe a car that has been stored (for years or decades) and thus not subjected to the kind of abuse and neglect that often befalls vehicles when they fall in to unworthy hands.
I visited the sellers’ home here in the Bay Area and spoke to both the original owner (the father) and his son (who is also a legitimate musician of the highest order) and played the horn myself.
The cornet is a 1942 King Silvertone Master, purchased new for the father when he was in middle school. It is, as far as I can tell, in 100% original condition. The lacquer has come off in some areas which gives it a beautiful patina, but it appears never to have needed repair. The engraving on the bell is crisp and clear. I recall only one very small ding on one of the tuning slides, but it is otherwise in excellent condition. I recall a couple of the bottom caps being a bit tight but the valves are easily removed and very little (if any) signs of wear. The first valve was a tiny bit sluggish but I don’t think anything past a cleaning is necessary to fix that. The cornet is stored in its original case with a zippered canvas external cover and includes what I believe to be the original mouthpiece and a lyre. I blew some notes through it and it sounds and plays beautifully, even with though I have virtually no time on the mouthpiece I used or knowledge of the proper approach to playing cornet.
I have no need for a cornet but this horn is such a gem that I and to resist my strong desire to buy it. I’m a sucker for vintage horns, especially examples in such fine condition and with documented history.
If you’re looking for a vintage cornet with provenance, I don’t believe you’ll find a better example than this one.
Buyer pays shipping from Bay Area. To preserve the horn I'd suggest shipping it separately from the case, but that's up to the buyer. Also due to shipping costs we'll ship to contiguous United States unless buyer is willing to assist with shipping logistics and costs.
Contact me if you're interested and I'll put you in touch with the seller.
I think they're quite attractive. I would like to have one.
This one is available for purchase. It’s in the San Francisco Bay Area (Santa Cruz) and I’m going to help the owner find a suitable home for it. I went and saw the horn in person today, played it a little, and got the history. I’ll post the report shortly. In the mean time, if you’re interested, contact me privately.
I have no interest in the horn nor a financial stake in it. I can only say that despite not knowing much about cornets or this particular model, it is in the parlance of the vintage car world, a “Barn Find.”
A friend of a friend has asked if I might be interested in his father’s 1942 King Silvertone Cornet. It appears to be in good condition, with patina but no obvious structural or cosmetic damage. It’s stored in the original case. I don’t have a cornet, and will probably have no reason to ever use it other than for my own playing pleasure. Do you have any thoughts on how seriously I should consider it, and what average value of these old horns is?
Two vintage trumpet cases for sale. Neither one is terribly special as far as I'm aware, but they are vintage, and that's a thing right? I just can't bring myself throw them away, so hopefully someone will want them. The first was the case that my Martin Committee was in when the previous owner purchased it in 1964, so it dates back at least to that year. I have no idea what brand it is. No keys. $50 + shipping from Northern California.
The second is a Conn and as you can see, it's beat. Mildewy, no key, and the very definition of patina. $40 + shipping from Northern California.