My Adams F2 in brushed copper.

-tj in the Cruz Mtns

Apologies for the repost. I'd hoped to get the thread I started here but in lieu of that here's what I posted.

This is "TJ," aka "the chief gearhead" on Trumpet Master.

A few days after TrumpetMaster bit the wax termite, my Martin Committee arrived. Like many, I hoped it would return, thinking perhaps it was just another brief outage.

Like you, I'm also a member of TH, but for some reason TM was where I posted the most. I just happened upon some topics others were interested in, and discussions ensued.

Since trumpet pedagogy is complex even when discussed in person, the discussions I found most interesting where equipment focused, specifically threads about vintage horns. I loved the vintage horns "eye candy" thread, and also the Martin Committee "Club."

So first things first, I'm not trying to recreate another MCC, but I would like to solicit the opinions and knowledge of those who either play or have experience with these horns, because quite candidly, I'm absolutely smitten with my recent acquisition, and even the story of how I found her is a good one. If ever there was a horn which lived up to its hype, at least from my perspective, the Martin Committee does so swimmingly.

I'd been wanting to play one for years, starting back when I was a young lad. Then, after my return to playing, and my love of vintage horns (I have a 53 Olds Recording which I bought from the daughter of the original owner) I began searching for a Committee, specifically one from the "preferred era." I played a couple Medium Bore horns, and found them similar enough to my Olds that I didn't see a reason to pursue them.

After searching the usual online marketplaces I found one in, of all places, Facebook Marketplace. Had the seller not been a music professor, author of trumpet methodology books, and mutual friends of a couple people whom I hold in the highest esteem, I'd likely have moved on. But he is all those things, and after a couple FB messages I committed to buy the horn. He was in fact not the seller, but was representing the seller, who was a 70 year old woman, who had owned the horn since 1965 when her mother bought it for her at a used music store in Texas. The previous owner was, according to her, a local musician who played in jazz clubs in the area. She played it in high school honor band, and then apparently put it away and didn't do anything with it for.....50 years.

It is a large bore "Deluxe" model, SN 194587, which puts its build date sometime in 1956 as far as I can tell.

During the week that it took for it to arrive, I completely geeked out on the horn, reading and re-reading what little has been written about them. At this point TM was gone, so I could not read about it there, although occasionally I'd read it through Google archives.

When the horn arrived, I heard the UPS truck at our gate, and then saw my wife walking up the driveway with the box in her hands. She too had been looking forward to its arrival, because she loves me and because, well, she was probably tired of me saying "you know what happens in 2 days?"

I opened the box, opened the sadly non-original case, put my mouthpiece in the receiver, and blew air in to it. After quickly slightly modifying my approach to the kind of air the horn wants, I immediately realized that this horn is unlike any other horn I've ever played, and I was in love. I can't really put in to words how it feels, but the way it resonates and the feeling in my embouchure are large, round, sonorous, without edge, dark, and rich.

The horn is in very good condition mechanically. The valves are fast and not badly worn, and there are only a couple small signs of repair. The only disappointing aspect of it is that someone buffed and re-lacquered the bell, making the beautiful engraving hard to see. There's still enough left for an experienced artist to touch up, and that's what I intend to do, as soon as I am willing to go without having it for a couple weeks. I sent it to my local brass tech to have the bent lead pipe straightened and the horn cleaned, and I washed it in hot water which removed the old cellulose lacquer.

I bought a set of Harrelson's mouthpiece gap shim kit and have been trying different gaps. With my Monette Classic Resonance MP the gap was .226", which by all accounts is way too large, and which strangely made the horn very sharp. With the gap reduced to <.100" it's much better, although still slippery and still produces the known flat 2/3 valve combo sound.

Here are some photos...I'll update the thread when I have more to share. Oh, by the way, I found a woman who can do the engraving through Robb Stewart, and I spoke with her.

-tj in the Cruz Mtns

I took my mute and the Committee to my horn tech today and in less than 30 minutes he cut and glued another layer of cork on to the mute. It now has enough "standoff" or gap and the horn blows much more freely and sounds better. Problem solved.

-tj

The seller is a friend and someone whose integrity I can personally vouch for. I’m happy to conduct a play/visual examination as he is local. I’m also a Committee owner/player.

A friend of a dear friend had an old Blessing Artist that had belonged to her dad. She offered it to me and I graciously accepted it. It's a bit banged up but plays nicely. With a few dents removed and things straightened it will be a neat old horn. The serial number is 40756 which seems to indicate a pre-1946 build date (perhaps 44 or 45).

Curiously the horn came in a Conn case, which I'm assuming is non-original. Does anyone recognize the case?

-tj in the Cruz Mtns

@kehaulani

This discussion is similar to those that I have about watches and vintage Alfa Romeos, both products made in an era where things were written by hand if at all, which were manufactured in low numbers and which were never expected to become valuable, collectible items.

It’s true that people consider the best years of the Committee to be during the time period you cite. It’s also true that some people believe those same Committees are inferior to the Handcraft versions of the late 30s and early 40s. I’ve never played a Handcraft so I can’t comment on that, but logic would dictate that later horns would be better in terms of quality and consistency. Technology, metallurgy, assembly techniques and other macro-economic factors (post-war worker sentiment, pay, and empowerment) would seem to lead to a more efficient company, and thus a better product.

As for its quality, it remains a Martin Committee. You’re right that it probably shouldn’t be silver, although I’ve occasionally seen other silver examples. If it was made in 63 as the SN indicates, it is an RMC horn, but depending on the exact year of the acquisition, it could be that the case is year appropriate, although I can’t make out the “Wurlitzer badge” and you’re right, it’s not the tan case of the 50s.

What I do know is that I’ve got a fair number of hours on my 56, and that yesterday I played both back to back, and last night sat in my chair with one in each hand comparing them. My 56 is, as far as I can tell, nearly 100% original as the person I bought it from had owned it since 1964 and it was purchased used from a music store in that year.

The only differences I can find in the silver horn are the first valve “kicker” and the shape of the finger hook on the lead pipe, which is just a slightly more abbreviated “C” than on mine. The engraving is obviously new and was done after the horn was plated.

Shawn from Brass Cellar did not question its authenticity or value, stating that rebuilds are becoming more expensive and that the work on the horn alone probably cost $1500+.

What’s most important is the way it plays, and it plays beautifully. It is unmistakably “Committee” in every way, and again, very similar to the things we love and put up with when compared to my 56.

When I hold it in my hands I can’t feel like I am a fool for not buying it, because I don’t think I’ll ever find a better example of a Committee at any price.

-tj

@J-Jericho

Best reply ever.

-tj

I was playing a 2 valve G bugle but without a doubt my favorite musical memory was being part of the Santa Clara Vanguard 50th Anniversary Alumni Corps and our performance at the end of DCI Semi-Finals at Lucas Oil Stadium on August 11th, 2017.

-tj

I was recently made of aware of this horn by the good people at ACB and I’m obsessed with playing one. If it works for me as advertised, it may just be the horn I’ve been looking for. Fans of it say that it’s round, dark, and warm, while being a very efficient instrument.

There are some cool videos on YouTube by Joe Babiak, a recent convert to Martin’s horns.

Now if I could just find buyers for my Miyashiro and Olds.

-tj

Oh yeah, I don’t want to go down that philosophical rat hole, because it leads to all kinds of conundrums, such as “is ‘my sound’ the sound that naturally comes out of my horn, or is it the sound that I want to have come out of my horn after years of playing other people’s music the sound of which I’ve either agreed or disagreed with, then tossed the disagreeable characteristics out and kept the agreeable components, thus inculcating someone else’s sound but tempered and tinged with the elements of my own equipment, age, physiognomy and perspective….damn my brain hurts now.

-tj

@dr-go said in In search of “my horn.”:

Interesting perspective that "my horn" is really someone else's horn that the listener tends to admire. That was what roped me into the Getzen 4-valve Etena. Was a real fan of Rick Braun, and at the time I was in the market for a flugelhorn, that is the horn I chose and he is the reason why. However, I sound like me on it, not like Rick Braun, and I am OK with that.

Well that’s partly true. The Benge is more me than the Miyashiro, but it’s still brighter than I’d like. Point is, if there was a situation in which my “next horn” is too dark for the ensemble, I have the Benge as well as the Recording if I need to brighten things up a bit.

-tj

@dr-go said in In search of “my horn.”:

@tjveloce said in In search of “my horn.”:
...I have my Benge which works very well in situations which require more consistent ensemble sound, and I play a Monette Prana B6S1 mouthpiece.

Suggestions?

-tj

TJ, sounds like you answered your own question. The Benge is you!

One of my very early trumpet influences was Herb Alpert. It may have come from listening to my father’s Kenton, Maynard Ferguson, Ellington, and Basie records, but I noticed the difference in Herb’s sound. It was almost always soft, warm, round, and dark, “El Solo Toro” notwithstanding. Of course I was 7 and so I didn’t understand the whole concept of a personal style or sound. Later however, I did, and after digging on Maynard, Doc, and others, when I first heard Miles Davis’ “Birth,” “Relaxin,” and others, I began to incorporate that compact style in to my own playing.

4 decades later the trumpet sound that I find so sublime, the sound I still try to incorporate in to my own, at least in solo or small ensemble work, is that same warm, dark sound, never brassy, never bright, no shimmer, no edge. When I listen to Chris, or Roy, or Domenic playing in that style, it just slays me.

I didn’t realized it until I got my Benge back from our place in Denver (where it had been since before the shutdown), but as much as I appreciate the quality, consistency, and many other positive attributes of my Miyashiro, it’s just not the horn for me. It’s just too bright. The Benge is comparatively darker, although still not exactly what I’m looking for. My Committee is certainly capable of producing those kinds of sound, but candidly it’s a real bear to play, and especially in the big band, the intonation is too much work. I’m an amateur trumpet player, and an aging one that. I love my vintage horns but I do appreciate the help that is offered by modern horns. I’m basically looking for a horn which in a blind sound test might make the listener think “is he playing a trumpet or a flugelhorn?”

And so I have embarked on a “horn safari.” If cost and availability were not an issue I’d go see the wizards up at Monette, but those things are an issue and so I’m left to search other options.

The only horn I’ve played recently (NAMM 2020) that left an impression of being close to what I am looking for was the Adams A4. That said, I’m open to others. Of course the challenge is that most of the horns I’m considering are somewhat “custom” and I’m thousands of miles from places like Austin Custom Brass so my ability to take one for a test drive is based on having one sent to me, and then facing several hundred dollars in restocking and shipping fees.

Josh at ACB recommended that I try the new Boehme Tumultus, and it looks and sounds interesting (based on what I’ve read and Trent’s test drive). I’ve looked for other options including the new Schilke Handcraft, and some of the Getzens. Yamaha does not make anything close to what I want, which is a bummer because I’ve found their quality and consistency to be outstanding.

At the risk of opening a hornet’s nest, what do y’all think? I am not a lead player and have no desire to be. I have my Benge which works very well in situations which require more consistent ensemble sound, and I play a Monette Prana B6S1 mouthpiece.

Suggestions?

-tj

I’m not sure that I accept the criticism that anything made by Martin after 200xxx is of poor quality. I’m fairly sure that most of us with day jobs just don’t have the ability to understand the differences between trumpets. To be clear, we might notice differences in timbre, slotting, or intonation, but ultimately we’ll compensate one way or another in order to get the sound we want, but we won’t completely understand exactly how we modify our approach in order get that sound.

As an example, a year or so ago I came across a Martin Committee from the early 60s….post 200xxx. I have a 56 Large Bore Deluxe with which I am fairly familiar. When I switch from my Committee to my Benge, or my Yamaha, I certainly can hear and feel differences in the horns, but does that imply poor quality? If a horn requires that you move more air, of pay more attention to intonation or articulation, but in doing so produces a better quality of sound, does that make it poorer quality?

I made a video, it’s around here somewhere, of me playing my 56 Committee back to back with the later model horn. I don’t recall them feeling much different as far as blow goes, and the sound was similar too.

Finally, there’s little doubt that quality control in modern horns far surpasses that of anything made in the 50s, 60s, or even 70s. So there may be a wider range of “quality” in any vintage horn, but that doesn’t mean they were all crap.

Ultimately all that matters is what you like, which will inevitably be the horn that requires the least amount of work to produce the sound you want.

-tj

In 1982 my father bought me a Benge MLP for my 16th birthday. We flew to a music store in Burbank and I played a few different models before settling on the MLP. I played it throughout high school and college, and then it slept in storage for the lost years where I wasn’t playing.

When I returned to the trumpet it was the one I started with, but a number of circumstances led me down a path that brought other horns in to my collection of “daily weapons,” most notably my Yamaha Miyashiro which has been my big band/ensemble horn of choice.

A couple years ago I took the Benge to Denver with me, so I’d have a horn to play when I was out visiting my Mother In Law, but then the pandemic happened and I’ve not travelled to Denver since. When Mom came to spend the holidays with us she brought my old Benge with her and the reunion was an unexpectedly fantastic one.

The horn has always been a very good one but I forgot how good it is. After 4 years of mostly being on the Yamaha (and 2 or so on the Committee) it’s more like the Martin than the Miyashiro. That was a big, and welcome surprise. I’m really quite surprised that the Benge has a more compact and softer core sound to it, one which I absolutely love. I spent all day getting to know it again, and promptly put the Miyashiro in its case. I’m going to use the Benge in big band rehearsal tomorrow night and see how I do with it. As far as ease of play, intonation, and dexterity, it gives up little (if any) to the Yamaha.

BTW-it’s a Los Angeles built example, most likely made in 1980 or 1981.

-tj

Ripe, Miles & Monk at Newport, The Jihye Lee Jazz Orchestra, and the new Phat Band EP, “The Reset.” I’m going to see them this weekend at Yoshi’s.

-tj

Monette mouthpieces are gold plated, and while I was a skeptic before I became a customer, I’m now sold. The way they feel on your chops is, in my view, worth it, along with they way they work for me. They’re about $400 for the Prana model if memory serves and I use one in my flugelhorn and one in my trumpet.

-tj

@richard-iii

@georgeb

I’ve got a very nice one for which I’d love to find a suitable home. It’s in the Classifieds if you’ve not already seen it.

-tj

I bought this horn several years ago from the daughter of the original owner, whose parents bought it for him new in 1954. Since then I have acquired several other horns and the Olds sits in my closet. As much as I love this horn and its story, it does not make sense for me to own it. It needs to be played and appreciated more frequently and not treated like a museum piece.

The horn is in excellent mechanical condition, with no dents and beautiful patina. It includes the original case, financing paperwork and two vintage mouthpieces and mutes.

More photos and information available upon request.

$1500 + Shipping and Insurance from the Bay Area.

-tj