Kanstul -- Any News?

  • Around the time that TM went dark, there was a lot of discussion / angst about the announcement from Kanstul that they needed to stop accepting new orders.
    As with much news of that type, "Those who are talking don't know and those who know aren't talking." Has anyone heard anything new?

  • Global Moderator

    I have heard nothing that has not already been told. Same thing concerning prominent trumpet chairs available (Chicago 1st and NYP 2nd, to name a couple).

  • I have heard they are dropping lower brass when/if they come back. Trombone will be as low as the go, if the gossip is reliable. Tubas are gone for sure.

  • @Tobylou8 said in Kanstul -- Any News?:

    Tubas are gone for sure.

    Tubas or not Tubas, That is the question!

  • @Dr-GO said in Kanstul -- Any News?:

    @Tobylou8 said in Kanstul -- Any News?:

    Tubas are gone for sure.

    Tubas or not Tobas, That is the question!

    Trying my hardest not to edit............Trying my hardest not to edit............Trying my hardest not to edit............. Trying my hardest not to edit.........

  • @BigDub said in Kanstul -- Any News?:

    @Dr-GO said in Kanstul -- Any News?:

    @Tobylou8 said in Kanstul -- Any News?:

    Tubas are gone for sure.

    Tubas or not Tobas, That is the question!

    Trying my hardest not to edit............Trying my hardest not to edit............Trying my hardest not to edit............. Trying my hardest not to edit.........

    I know!! And they're right next door too!!! 🐸 🐸 🐸 🐸

  • This post is deleted!

  • Kanstul made it official. Per their website as of today (7/23/19).....

    Thanks to all our friends for a long run

    And it has been a long run.

    67 years ago, Zig Kanstul first began crafting brasswinds, and though the master himself passed in 2016, our family has carried on the tradition of building a broad line of brass instruments with an unrelenting focus on the sound.

    However, we came to a point where it was no longer viable for us to continue.

    We want to thank all the players who have made music on our horns over the years, from the casual players, the band members, the drum corps sections—to the professionals in the pop, rock, jazz, symphonic, mariachi, and Hollywood soundtrack genres—and everyone in between.

    We’d also like to thank our indispensable design collaborators who over the years worked with Zig to create so many horns that made history.

    Also, thanks to our dealers and resellers, and of course our private-label partners who have kept so many iconic instrument designs available to the serious playing community.

    This website will remain online for the foreseeable future, as an archive of Kanstul history and product information. Inquiries regarding archive status and Zig book orders may be sent to scott@eyemotive.com.

  • I think it was mentioned in another thread, but BAC out of Kansas City bought all of Kanstul’s tooling.

    Mike Corrigan put a video on the Facebook page announcing it.

  • @Kujo20

    Yes, but selling the tooling does not necessarily mean the company is defunct. They could subcontract production of major parts and subcomponents to others (China/Asia) and continue with final assembly in California, thereby continuing the existence of the brand as a "made in USA" company. Or they could sell out to an Asian buyer who would move production overseas but continue selling the brand in the USA. I'm kind of glad they didn't do those things, but they were possibilities.

    Also, it will be interesting to see what BAC does with that tooling. They apparently did not buy the Kanstul brand or intellectual property rights or any of those things. They could use the tooling to make/sell aftermarket replacement parts, or they could develop their own "boutique" brand. (BAC already had their own "boutique" brand, but they could expand it offering "tribute" models to Kanstul, Olds, Benge, Martin, and some of the others for which Kanstul had the tooling.)

  • If they were to outsource to Asia, and import and sell from California, it kind of defeats the purpose. I figure the kids just are no into the business like their dad was. Not meant as an insult, or bad talk, its Just a guess, but it happens quite often.

  • Global Moderator

    We can speculate at the end of the day, but the fact is that Kanstul is gone and they probably won't come back. Sad, but consolidation seems to be the name of the game in our industry today.

  • Every generation has had their heros. In Bachs day it was the Haas, Ehe and Leichamschneider families, then came Michael Saurle at the turn of the 19th century.
    After that we have Couesnon, Heckel, Distin and many others.
    The 20th century brought Besson, White, Bach, Conn, Holton and later Selmer.

    Many of you will have additional "heros". Kanstul did not make it because the business model was not sustainable without the myth Zig. The real problem is zero innovation. There was no reason to buy a Kanstul over a Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Getzen or other brand. Sure, they were well built and sounded OK, but that is not enough. If there had been innovation, they would have been snapped up - if nothing else for the patents (what patents?). Can you base a company on Martin Committee copies or a better Bach?

    Look at the last 20 years. Yamaha has smoked Bach, Schilke and many other manufacturers. Many of the major symphony orchestra and jazz/studio musicians play Xenos. They are being used in places that no other manufacturers have been able to penetrate.
    Who will miss the Kanstul brand in 10 years? Have you seen prices for used Kanstuls going up since they closed their doors?

  • I don't think it's accurate to say that Yamaha has "smoked" Bach, Schilke etc. As for jazz, outside of lead players most of the pros I know or see play Bachs or other horns as much or more than Yamahas-I only know of a couple of that play Xenos, and they aren't jazz players. I myself play a Schilke Handcraft. I've owned both medium bore and large bore Committees and I prefer the Schilke over the Martin. This isn't to say that Yamahas aren't on par with other horns I see-they are among the best horns, but I wouldn't say that they dominate the market, not from what I see.

  • Global Moderator

    @Bay-Area-Brass Yamahas don't dominate the American market (yet); but in other countries, they are bloody ubiquitous and have swamped the student market at least. And that is where market domination begins. Someone who started on a good student trumpet will stick to the brand if he was in any way successful on it. Now where is the American student trumpet that can hold up against a Yamaha? I know of none.

  • @barliman2001 Thanks for the info-didn't know that. As for Yamaha student models, not surprised since in my experience ALL Yamaha horns are top quality.

  • Global Moderator

    @Bay-Area-Brass The largest school of music in Vienna - in spite of the old-established District Schools of Music and the Vienna City School of Music - is the Yamaha School of Music with currenty more than 900 students... World-wide, the Yamaha Schools of Music boast of more than 600,000 students... No other music company has that kind of universal approach.

  • I am a certified Yamaha teacher. My experience is that the success of Yamaha schools, while providing a great system of wind tuition, relies on the participation of singers, guitarists, keys, and drummers. The size of a program like this doesn't necessarily reflect the quality or style of music taught. It is modern, not relying on paradigms that are 200 years old.

  • @Bay-Area-Brass: Here are 260 registered brass players with Yamaha - just in the US. Kind of a "Whos who". What I meant by "smoked": Yamaha has become THE first choice for the symphony player (just look at the sections in US symphony orchestras) and the list of commercial players is certainly not small. The amount of university professors and teachers with Yamaha support is very large. Schilke has made no inroads to the classical player, in spite of the heavy model.

    As far as innovation goes, the Xeno redefined what a trumpet could be. Less core than a Bach, but a wonderful brilliance and above all superior intonation and blow.

    In any case, Yamaha is defining what artist support means and they certainly are setting the standards very high.

  • @ROWUK Thanks for the reply-as for the classical world I'm not connected so I will take your word on that-I know that piccolo trumpets tend to be Schilke, at least in the US but I don't know what's most popular in regards to C trumpets (I've found outside of the Handcrafts, most Schilke models tend to play on the bright side). As for jazz soloists, the Xeno isn't used much (lead players yes). There are some Yamahas what are well suited for the jazz soloist and I see some of those. The reason I use the Schilke HC1 is because the bell flare and tapered leadpipe/tuning slide give it a nice buttery Committee like blow and feel but with better upper register and intonation. In commercial work I believe Xenos are more popular. I concur that Yamahas have a high standard in regards to build quality, intonation and blow. In the end it comes down to what suits you best. My post was state what I see among jazz and commercial players, and while I do see Yamahas, it certainly isn't the majority. Classical perhaps 🙂

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