PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!

barliman2001 · Jun 14, 2020, 8:51 PM

This is the second time within a few days that I have been forced to lock a topic due to a few members not keeping a civil tongue.

This is my last warning. If something like that happens again, I AM OUT OF HERE.

Dr GO · Jun 15, 2020, 12:21 AM

Barlimann... You do great work here. You keep us in balance and you have just worked though a challenged that most physicians avoid. I have even more respect for you as a result. Please, do not let the strain of this singular dynamic make that decision to leave. Please run this by me first. I really want to help both you and this site move forward. This site is a breath of fresh air, when certain particulates are filtered. You keep the wind of discussion fresh and clean. I look forward to inhaling much much more of your content in the future.

Dr GO · Jun 15, 2020, 4:24 AM

Barleman... Having additional help would lighten the load. May I nominate Stumac. I am almost certain if elected, he would serve. It would be an honor to have Rowuk as well, but he may be a bit burned out from a prior gig.

administrator · Jun 15, 2020, 1:11 AM

I stand by my moderator. Please be civil.

chelpres · Jun 15, 2020, 4:24 AM

@Dr-GO At the risk of him not talking to me again, I second your nomination. Sorry Stuart

Brian Moon · Jun 16, 2020, 4:29 PM

I wasn't even involved. Signs of old age.

ROWUK · Jun 17, 2020, 4:52 AM

To be honest, I am not in favor of locking threads down so quickly - or deleting them (certain language does deserve an edit however). The underlying problems remain and most issues are not “one sided”. So, we now have a winner and a loser, not a solution. Collision of personalities is real life.

It doesn’t matter, I am spending ever less time here. If you all are content with ever more pale shades of grey, good luck on building membership.

GeorgeB · Jun 17, 2020, 11:57 AM

@ROWUK said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:
I am spending ever less time here.

That's unfortunate for everyone here. I would like to see a lot more of ROWUK...certainly not less.

Dr GO · Jun 17, 2020, 1:02 PM

@ROWUK said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

It doesn’t matter, I am spending ever less time here. If you all are content with ever more pale shades of grey, good luck on building membership.

No Rowuk... Please come here more often. God knows I need more color in my life!

ROWUK · Jun 17, 2020, 4:26 PM

My problem is that I am not really motivated. Many threads develop in a similar way:

original post
a couple of thank yous
maybe a subject supporting post or two
Class clown attack that has nothing to do with the original content
Derailed post can go just about anywhere - but not without devils advocate posting

I can say that the feeling is like with certain teachers that I had - for one or 2 lessons. My general feeling here is of suffocation. Extreme efforts (in my opinion) are being made to keep it "clean", "friendly", "family". The general feeling is not digging in and accepting reality, rather a lavender painted over.

I a pretty sure that if I started posting like I feel, that the threads would last 2 days. In that case, why bother. At Trumpetmaster I made a point about getting to the meat immediately. Here we seem to be afraid of blood.

OldSchoolEuph · Jun 17, 2020, 4:40 PM

@ROWUK - I always found disagreeing with you on TM both entertaining and enlightening. (and sometimes quite a challenge as we dont necessarily disagree on much). The back & forth of differing experience and differing understandings helps root out truth - I will always support that, and found you to be one of the most valuable contributors in that regard.

So the issue is civility. Is it not possible to moderate a forum in such manner as civil discourse, civil debate, is possible? The only challenge is for a moderator to manage to suppress his/her own bias - which some do better at than others.

Dr GO · Jun 17, 2020, 4:42 PM

@ROWUK said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

...At Trumpetmaster I made a point about getting to the meat immediately. Here we seem to be afraid of blood.

I personally am not afraid of the blood, it's more the spattering of brain tissue that concerns me.

neal085 · Jun 17, 2020, 5:22 PM

@ROWUK said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

My problem is that I am not really motivated. Many threads develop in a similar way:

original post

a couple of thank yous

maybe a subject supporting post or two

Class clown attack that has nothing to do with the original content

Derailed post can go just about anywhere - but not without devils advocate posting

I can say that the feeling is like with certain teachers that I had - for one or 2 lessons. My general feeling here is of suffocation. Extreme efforts (in my opinion) are being made to keep it "clean", "friendly", "family". The general feeling is not digging in and accepting reality, rather a lavender painted over.

I a pretty sure that if I started posting like I feel, that the threads would last 2 days. In that case, why bother. At Trumpetmaster I made a point about getting to the meat immediately. Here we seem to be afraid of blood.

I agree on posts getting derailed pretty quickly. I was reading a post from this morning where someone asked for advice, and three replies later it was guys joking about stuff that had zero to do with the original post.

I'm all for civil discourse or even animated discourse if it doesn't devolve into name-calling or profanity.

barliman2001 · Jun 17, 2020, 6:01 PM

@ROWUK Disagreeing in a civil manner is no problem. What happened here was that someone at once derailed into personal abuse.

GeorgeB · Jun 18, 2020, 11:14 AM

@neal085

Posts getting derailed can be annoying, but ok as long as someone gets things back on track. I will stick with a thread if it is interesting .

administrator · Jun 18, 2020, 7:51 PM

Even war can be civil.

J. Jericho · Jun 18, 2020, 7:51 PM

@administrator No humor allowed!! You've derailed this thread!! Shame on you!!

administrator · Jun 18, 2020, 7:54 PM

@J-Jericho said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

@administrator No humor allowed!! You've derailed this thread!! Shame on you!!

Ooops. My mistake.

Dr GO · Jun 19, 2020, 4:53 PM

@administrator said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

@J-Jericho said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

@administrator No humor allowed!! You've derailed this thread!! Shame on you!!

Ooops. My mistake.

At least you're civil about it!

ROWUK · Jun 19, 2020, 3:43 PM

@OldSchoolEuph said in PLEASE KEEP CIVIL!:

@ROWUK - I always found disagreeing with you on TM both entertaining and enlightening. (and sometimes quite a challenge as we dont necessarily disagree on much). The back & forth of differing experience and differing understandings helps root out truth - I will always support that, and found you to be one of the most valuable contributors in that regard.

So the issue is civility. Is it not possible to moderate a forum in such manner as civil discourse, civil debate, is possible? The only challenge is for a moderator to manage to suppress his/her own bias - which some do better at than others.

I fully agree - but discourse like range must be practiced until both sides find equilibrium (winning or losing all the time is not fun...). Squelching the post early only means that there is a winner (the admin or moderator) and a loser (devils advocate?). That is NOT a good situation in my view.

I have a view that if on earth war outbreaks, the politicians have failed - not the military. The same goes here. If we can't "reel a member in", is the problem the member, the tactical exercize or a problem with the community. I have a personal feeling about this, but am not stuck on any of those choices.

Let's take this thread. I have posted some pretty clear thoughts - no admin or moderator has engaged those thoughts. Why is that? I mention "class clowning" threads - of course I have specific members in mind - no response. What does this place stand for? Do we even have a direction or is this just a trumpet lounge with no HOT coffee, cold beer, Whiskey, Cognac or Schnaps - just warm to cool sweet mixed drinks? Well, I am diabetic and sugar is not one of my "vices" (it wasn't at TrumpetMaster either). I happen to like hot, cold and taste explosions on the tongue.

In the end, I do ask why I come back here. I am not even motivated to challenge other posts because I know how they will develop if I try. That was generally not the case in the "old world". There were a lot of "challenges" some died due to lack of argumentation, some ran in circles for months, some got "ugly" because one of the parties felt "attacked" or unfairly treated (probably my bad back then although I do have an opinion about insecure people on the internet). Some resulted in apologies. In the "uncivil threads" only the 4 letter words were dealt with. Issues concerning prejudice or hidden racism were more difficult.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not criticizing any member, admin or moderator. I am criticizing what I see: paler shades of gray. If that is what the community wants, cool for the community. I am trying to get to the meat of the issue here. I do expect more response - especially from those with "more power". Luke warm is NOT an option (neither is war).