@tmd Agreed!

You might find what Denis Wick said quite interesting
First of all, the teacher does what he does; he then tells the student what he thinks he does. The student then does what he thinks the teacher said.

Excited to announce that Jaeger Brass and Trumpet4Fun are again open for business!

Hopefully we have dotted all the i’s and crossed all the t’s of the business regulations here in Germany. We have connected both our channels: the trumpet work of Jaeger Brass and the educational mission of Trumpet4Fun under the rubric of Dr.Trumpet

The website www.DrTrumpet.de is live and has links to the two other sites. Already available for sale are Jaeger trumpets and mouthpieces (JaegerBrass) and books (Trumpet4Fun). Regretfully modifications and such have to wait a bit longer, whilst we are waiting for electricians (affected by Covid delays etc.) to wire up our machinery and lighting.

Please use email for sales enquiries until I can get a shopping cart functioning reliably.

People often ask "what is the difference between a trumpet and a cornet?" One major difference is the proportion of length before and after the valve section, i.e. where in the length of the instrument are the valves. Here is a graphic to illustrate this difference.

A recent note from a concerned parent:

Please forgive my naive questions, what about xxxx for trumpets, I read people trying different xxxx for their trumpets. You have any thoughts on this?

My reply:

Thank you for your question, better to have admitted naivety than have an empty checkbook! Yes there are many different options available for trumpets;, lead pipes, bells, special valves, water keys. These are normally offered as an option when new - like cars having automatic or manual gearboxes. But as in the car comparison, it is a very big deal to change an existing setup, it is not just the different component, it is how it fits and affects the whole instrument.

A lot of people think a lot of things about brass instruments; brainwashing and self-delusion is rampant! Think of these examples:

I want a stronger water key spring so I need one with more coils.

Wrong! A fewer number of coils make a spring stronger; a straight piece of wire (no coils) is stronger than one with one coil.

My trumpet has too much resistance, there must be a blockage.

Probably wrong. If the trumpet is hard to play there is likely some leakage exactly where the sound wave wants to have high pressure (pressure antinode). The pressure wants to escape, therefore the player has to work harder to maintain the resonance. In this case I would check for leaky water key or joints, or worn valves.

Remember; there is no computer model that will predict what will happen if you change xxxx.

Data is empirical = knowledge comes from experimentation.

“I think” does not equal “It is”.

As a player/instrument designer and builder/teacher/writer my specialty is to talk about these things, to bring peace to playing situations and to encourage a better relationship between player and instrument. This is best done in person and it is why we have such a comfortable setting here - my workshop/factory and the large music room. It is also why we started the not for profit foundation “The Recreational Musician” dba “Trumpet4Fun”.

Arm yourself with reputable equipment and concentrate on playing music.

People buy Jaeger trumpets from me.

The pedal tone is the note whose half wavelength resonates in the trumpet. It normally sounds more than an octave below low C due to the end effect of the bell because It is not always clear to the sound wave where the tubing ends. T mathematics of this are way beyond most of us - I defer to Benade.

On flugelhorn and trombone/Baritone Horn the pedal tone tends to be exactly one octave lower. On didgeridoo (a cylindrical wooden trumpet) the pedal tone is about a 12th lower.

Here is a bit more: https://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/12/explaining-brass-instruments---2-the-notes.html

Check out this new $2.60 eBook (same price as a cup of coffee!)

for
Recreational trumpet players and their teachers
or
Band Directors without a brass background
or
Beginners and their parents

http://www.jaegerbrass.com/products/publications.html

I have often been surprised at the lack of students' understanding of how trumpets work, so am fated to write some brief articles to help them. Here is the first effort:
http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/12/explaining-brass-instruments---1-the-basics.html

There is some confusing and incorrect information about various trumpet brands in this thread. BTW here are some photos on this page of an ascending valve trumpet I finished in my South Salem, NY workshop last week.
http://www.jaegerbrass.com/jaeger-ascending-c.html

I have expanded on this and posted a blog - http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/9/difference-between-cornet-and-trumpet.html

Here is the text What is the Difference between a cornet and a trumpet?

When I started playing the cornet in NZ in 1958, the brass band community was vehemently “anti professional”. If anyone was discovered to have been playing for money, in a dance band for instance, they would have their brass band association registration revoked, and would not be allowed to participate in such events as contests. Dance band at that time equalled trumpet, and playing the trumpet was regarded as heresy. Being terrified by these regulations, we young cornetists wondered what the difference actually was between cornets and trumpets. We were told that cornets are tapered and trumpets are cylindrical. This is the commonly accepted view, but, as I have observed, not correct.

Shorter?
The cornet looks to be shorter than the trumpet. It is not. Both instruments play the same pitch indicating that their lengths are the same. Yes the silhouette is shorter but the tubing lengths are identical. The cornet looks shorter because the tubing of a cornet is coiled into two complete turns whereas the trumpet has only one. We refer to this as the wrap. Anyone who has experimented with different shape main slides on their trumpet will have experienced the great effect that these different shapes can make. The cornet has two more half turns than the trumpet.

Conical vs Cylindrical?
Many think that the tubing of the cornet is conical whereas the trumpet is cylindrical. This is incorrect. Both instruments have roughly the same proportion of tapered to straight tubing as the accompanying graphic shows. Both the measured instruments have bores starting at around 0.335” at the mouthpiece entry, 0.459” though the valve section, and 4.8” at the bell.

The tapers of the lead pipes and bells of both these instruments are the same. I have been told that when French Besson were designing their trumpet they used the same bell mandrel to make the bell as they were using for their cornet. To this day Vincent Bach cornets are offered with #25, #31 or #37 bells which are some of the same bell shapes offered on their trumpets. When 19th century composers were calling for chromatic instruments, these parts went to the cornets because at that time trumpet players were insisting on keeping their valveless “Natural” trumpets. Maybe the straightening of the cornet by one turn to more closely approximate the silhouette of the natural trumpet helped in having these new chromatic trumpets accepted.

Valve Section Placement
The valve section of the cornet is two thirds down the length of the tubing whereas the trumpet valve section is halfway down its length (plus or minus a little bit). This positioning places the valve section (which is where the player holds the instrument) at the center of gravity so that the instrument balances in the hand.

Mouthpiece
The mouthpieces for both these instruments are quite different. The cornet, in its British Brass Band mode, requires a relatively deep V shaped cup, whereas the trumpet prefers a shallower bowl shaped cup.

Experiment
I built a cornet which has a receiver for a trumpet mouthpiece. It can be played with either a trumpet mouthpiece or a cornet mouthpiece (when used with an appropriate adapter). When I use a trumpet mouthpiece it sounds and feels like the cornet used in Jazz, and when I play it with a traditional cornet mouthpiece it responds suitably for British Brass Band. It is a cornet not a trumpet.

I also built a trumpet with an extra coil in its wrap but with the valves half way down its length, not two thirds down like a cornet. When played with a trumpet mouthpiece it is absolutely trumpet-like; when played with the same cornet piece as above it sounds mellow but does not feel like a cornet. It is a trumpet not a cornet.

Both of these instruments have the valve section at the balance point, the same distance from the player.

Conclusion
It appears that the essential differences between trumpet and cornet are:

Mouthpiece shape - bowl cup or V cup

Wrap - one complete turn or two.

Placement of the valves - half way along the tubing or two thirds.

The instrument with a cup mouthpiece, one complete turn, and valves half way along its length can play and feel like a trumpet.

The instrument with a V mouthpiece, two complete turns, and valves two thirds along its length can play and feel like a cornet.

Hopefully this information will help in unraveling the difference between these two instruments.

Last week there was I really helpful exchange of views on the "Difference between Cornet and Trumpet" thread all of a sudden after over 2 years of silence. If that thread had been locked it would likely not have happened as it was resurrected by a new member who likely would not have jumped through the hoops to have it opened up.

@trumpetb Thank you for your kind words. So much of trumpet design and playing can only easily be described by metaphor. Take the common instructions from teachers "use more air". Well, when one actually measures the amount of air going through the trumpet, or considers the length of a phrase, one realises that these instruments are not pneumatic circuits. But the instruction is valid! In trumpet design all we can do is experiment to see what works - when a computer simulation can predict what will happen when a particular brace is moved I will hang up my mouthpiece!

As far as the sharp and gentle curves are concerned, bearing in mind that sound waves love straight lines, I like to imagine the pathway as something like the attached sketch, where each time the wave (the red line) hits the wall some higher frequencies are lost (like the boom box in a car several corners away - you hear the bass but not the treble). In the sketch the gentle curve of the tuning slide has many more collisions than the sharp valve slide bend.

Please remember this is ONLY A THOUGHT - and as I have often said
I think does not equal it is

@trumpetb The valve crooks, having a sharper bend than a tuning slide, have less affect on the timbre than the tuning slide. I wrote a possible reason for this.

Yes, I can usually detect what notes/valve combinations a trumpet player is playing. I think this is timbral, although I do have a highly developed ear for pitch (but not perfect pitch). I am glad that the trumpet retains its personality vis a vis the changes in timbre which allow me to observe this. Let us not attempt to emulate the computer!

Interesting thread, I started it solely to point out the self evident differences between the 2 instruments: Trumpet (French Besson design) and Cornet (Besson Brass Band design). Others have postulated a "this for that" description of design elements, but instrument design is much more complex. We know that putting a shepherd's crook bell (like Adams has) or introducing an extra coil (like I have on Jaeger ascending valve instruments and Puje does on their trumpets) on a trumpet will not magically turn it into a cornet.

Bends alone do not change tonality immensely or hugely...

If this were the case the after market tuning slides - D shaped, rounded etc, would not make a difference. It is generally accepted that they do.

An acoustics engineer once remarked to me "Sound waves love straight lines." When I change my regular main slide (quite square) with a very round one there is a distinct loss of higher harmonics. I imagine a straight line going along a curved tube; the more gentle the curve the more reflections from the sides, the more reflections, the more highs are lost. This is only a thought, but the change in timbre I describe is real and I can demonstrate this quite easily. My friends at Taylor trumpets made a bell with a sharp acute angle rather than the conventional curve; they tell me (and I believe them) that the trumpet sound is not compromised by this arrangement.

Valve slide crooks have quite sharp bends and the sound wave only bounces off the side of the tube twice to achieve 180 degrees; Tuning slide and Bell bows have much more gradual bends and the timbre can be modified by the shape of these. In fact these bends are one of the many important factors we consider when designing trumpets.

@administrator said in Cannonball Trumpets ???:
They were made by B&S, I'm not sure if that's still the case.

They have not been made by B&S for some years, later ones were made by Kanstul, until they closed their doors. I do not know who is making them now.

In contrast with the excellent Cannonball saxophones, Cannonball is a name that has been engraved on various trumpet models from different (at least 3) manufacturers over the years, so it is not possible to give an all-embracing opinion of them.

@trumpetb Welcome to Trumpets Boards and thank you for your input. I am sure we are very interested to see some of your experiments.

As Louis Armstrong said (paraphrased)
"I play the melody, then I play the melody around the melody, then I play the melody around that melody".

Avoid riffs and avoid patterns. Learn to play melodies by ear, learn to hear what key of the moment you are in, and listen to the greats of the past. Sing their solos.

@barliman2001 I will be there!

@kehaulani I'm next to the Austrian border near Salzburg. The shop is up and running - I have just completed a C cornet conversion and have a Flugel in for a Quarter tone valve fitting. My booklet "Trumpeting 4 Fun" is currently being translated into German.