Best posts made by Trumpetsplus

@tmd Agreed!

You might find what Denis Wick said quite interesting
First of all, the teacher does what he does; he then tells the student what he thinks he does. The student then does what he thinks the teacher said.

People often ask "what is the difference between a trumpet and a cornet?" One major difference is the proportion of length before and after the valve section, i.e. where in the length of the instrument are the valves. Here is a graphic to illustrate this difference.

Excited to announce that Jaeger Brass and Trumpet4Fun are again open for business!

Hopefully we have dotted all the i’s and crossed all the t’s of the business regulations here in Germany. We have connected both our channels: the trumpet work of Jaeger Brass and the educational mission of Trumpet4Fun under the rubric of Dr.Trumpet

The website www.DrTrumpet.de is live and has links to the two other sites. Already available for sale are Jaeger trumpets and mouthpieces (JaegerBrass) and books (Trumpet4Fun). Regretfully modifications and such have to wait a bit longer, whilst we are waiting for electricians (affected by Covid delays etc.) to wire up our machinery and lighting.

Please use email for sales enquiries until I can get a shopping cart functioning reliably.

The pedal tone is the note whose half wavelength resonates in the trumpet. It normally sounds more than an octave below low C due to the end effect of the bell because It is not always clear to the sound wave where the tubing ends. T mathematics of this are way beyond most of us - I defer to Benade.

On flugelhorn and trombone/Baritone Horn the pedal tone tends to be exactly one octave lower. On didgeridoo (a cylindrical wooden trumpet) the pedal tone is about a 12th lower.

Here is a bit more: https://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/12/explaining-brass-instruments---2-the-notes.html

A recent note from a concerned parent:

Please forgive my naive questions, what about xxxx for trumpets, I read people trying different xxxx for their trumpets. You have any thoughts on this?

My reply:

Thank you for your question, better to have admitted naivety than have an empty checkbook! Yes there are many different options available for trumpets;, lead pipes, bells, special valves, water keys. These are normally offered as an option when new - like cars having automatic or manual gearboxes. But as in the car comparison, it is a very big deal to change an existing setup, it is not just the different component, it is how it fits and affects the whole instrument.

A lot of people think a lot of things about brass instruments; brainwashing and self-delusion is rampant! Think of these examples:

I want a stronger water key spring so I need one with more coils.

Wrong! A fewer number of coils make a spring stronger; a straight piece of wire (no coils) is stronger than one with one coil.

My trumpet has too much resistance, there must be a blockage.

Probably wrong. If the trumpet is hard to play there is likely some leakage exactly where the sound wave wants to have high pressure (pressure antinode). The pressure wants to escape, therefore the player has to work harder to maintain the resonance. In this case I would check for leaky water key or joints, or worn valves.

Remember; there is no computer model that will predict what will happen if you change xxxx.

Data is empirical = knowledge comes from experimentation.

“I think” does not equal “It is”.

As a player/instrument designer and builder/teacher/writer my specialty is to talk about these things, to bring peace to playing situations and to encourage a better relationship between player and instrument. This is best done in person and it is why we have such a comfortable setting here - my workshop/factory and the large music room. It is also why we started the not for profit foundation “The Recreational Musician” dba “Trumpet4Fun”.

Arm yourself with reputable equipment and concentrate on playing music.

People buy Jaeger trumpets from me.

I was there! It was a truly magnificent concert. Burghausen is 30 minutes up the road for me and there is a lot of jazz happening there, I play in their monthly Jam sessions. I also spent 3 days in a masterclass with Jon Faddis, a wonderful warm human being.

Check out this new $2.60 eBook (same price as a cup of coffee!)

for
Recreational trumpet players and their teachers
or
Band Directors without a brass background
or
Beginners and their parents

http://www.jaegerbrass.com/products/publications.html

I have often been surprised at the lack of students' understanding of how trumpets work, so am fated to write some brief articles to help them. Here is the first effort:
http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/12/explaining-brass-instruments---1-the-basics.html

There is some confusing and incorrect information about various trumpet brands in this thread. BTW here are some photos on this page of an ascending valve trumpet I finished in my South Salem, NY workshop last week.
http://www.jaegerbrass.com/jaeger-ascending-c.html

I have expanded on this and posted a blog - http://www.jaegerbrass.com/Blo/Entries/2019/9/difference-between-cornet-and-trumpet.html

Here is the text What is the Difference between a cornet and a trumpet?

When I started playing the cornet in NZ in 1958, the brass band community was vehemently “anti professional”. If anyone was discovered to have been playing for money, in a dance band for instance, they would have their brass band association registration revoked, and would not be allowed to participate in such events as contests. Dance band at that time equalled trumpet, and playing the trumpet was regarded as heresy. Being terrified by these regulations, we young cornetists wondered what the difference actually was between cornets and trumpets. We were told that cornets are tapered and trumpets are cylindrical. This is the commonly accepted view, but, as I have observed, not correct.

Shorter?
The cornet looks to be shorter than the trumpet. It is not. Both instruments play the same pitch indicating that their lengths are the same. Yes the silhouette is shorter but the tubing lengths are identical. The cornet looks shorter because the tubing of a cornet is coiled into two complete turns whereas the trumpet has only one. We refer to this as the wrap. Anyone who has experimented with different shape main slides on their trumpet will have experienced the great effect that these different shapes can make. The cornet has two more half turns than the trumpet.

Conical vs Cylindrical?
Many think that the tubing of the cornet is conical whereas the trumpet is cylindrical. This is incorrect. Both instruments have roughly the same proportion of tapered to straight tubing as the accompanying graphic shows. Both the measured instruments have bores starting at around 0.335” at the mouthpiece entry, 0.459” though the valve section, and 4.8” at the bell.

The tapers of the lead pipes and bells of both these instruments are the same. I have been told that when French Besson were designing their trumpet they used the same bell mandrel to make the bell as they were using for their cornet. To this day Vincent Bach cornets are offered with #25, #31 or #37 bells which are some of the same bell shapes offered on their trumpets. When 19th century composers were calling for chromatic instruments, these parts went to the cornets because at that time trumpet players were insisting on keeping their valveless “Natural” trumpets. Maybe the straightening of the cornet by one turn to more closely approximate the silhouette of the natural trumpet helped in having these new chromatic trumpets accepted.

Valve Section Placement
The valve section of the cornet is two thirds down the length of the tubing whereas the trumpet valve section is halfway down its length (plus or minus a little bit). This positioning places the valve section (which is where the player holds the instrument) at the center of gravity so that the instrument balances in the hand.

Mouthpiece
The mouthpieces for both these instruments are quite different. The cornet, in its British Brass Band mode, requires a relatively deep V shaped cup, whereas the trumpet prefers a shallower bowl shaped cup.

Experiment
I built a cornet which has a receiver for a trumpet mouthpiece. It can be played with either a trumpet mouthpiece or a cornet mouthpiece (when used with an appropriate adapter). When I use a trumpet mouthpiece it sounds and feels like the cornet used in Jazz, and when I play it with a traditional cornet mouthpiece it responds suitably for British Brass Band. It is a cornet not a trumpet.

I also built a trumpet with an extra coil in its wrap but with the valves half way down its length, not two thirds down like a cornet. When played with a trumpet mouthpiece it is absolutely trumpet-like; when played with the same cornet piece as above it sounds mellow but does not feel like a cornet. It is a trumpet not a cornet.

Both of these instruments have the valve section at the balance point, the same distance from the player.

Conclusion
It appears that the essential differences between trumpet and cornet are:

Mouthpiece shape - bowl cup or V cup

Wrap - one complete turn or two.

Placement of the valves - half way along the tubing or two thirds.

The instrument with a cup mouthpiece, one complete turn, and valves half way along its length can play and feel like a trumpet.

The instrument with a V mouthpiece, two complete turns, and valves two thirds along its length can play and feel like a cornet.

Hopefully this information will help in unraveling the difference between these two instruments.

Play it. Enjoy it. Do nothing unless the bell is buzzing. If you are tapping it checking for a ring you would have noticed any buzzing. Some bells ring, some bells don't. Some people have dark colored hair, some have light.

Playing since 1958, gigging since 1964, full-time professionally since 1970 after winning the World Championship.

Principal in the local Symphony and first call session work till 1980. Not many world class acts came down under in those days. I moved to Australia to do the premiere and cast recording of a Broadway show than went to England for a couple of years to be a rock star! It didn’t work but I wrote and recorded a couple of singles. Back in Australia I concentrated on Salsa at night and managing a manufacturing company by day for ten years or so, then got head hunted for some teaching gigs and managing a music instrument importer/retailer.

Head hunted to USA in 2000 for my particular teaching philosophy so came here on an Einstein visa. Since then I have concentrated on recreational music making, even founding a not for profit public charity. It is this charity which underwrites the Trumpet Saturdays held by www.Trumpet4Fun.org

Once settled in US and dissatisfied with available models I realized that I could build a trumpet that would be easier to play and give more satisfaction to the player. So I combined my playing abilities with my manufacturing knowledge and latent Kiwi know-how to come up with Jaeger trumpets.

Last week there was I really helpful exchange of views on the "Difference between Cornet and Trumpet" thread all of a sudden after over 2 years of silence. If that thread had been locked it would likely not have happened as it was resurrected by a new member who likely would not have jumped through the hoops to have it opened up.

There are 3 quite different trombones.
Small bore tenor (Jazz lead horn) bore around 0.490
Symphony Tenor bore around 0.547" (there are also some models at 0.525")
Bass trombone bore around 0.462"
Excluding Bass trombone, the bore sizes vary by up to 12%.

I have heard that Steven Turre wanted people to refer to these instruments as "Tenor Trombone", "Baritone Trombone" and "Bass Trombone".

Trumpet bore sizes vary by only up to 2% with the most common ML (0.459")and L (0.462") being 0.6% different. So there is not the same level of difference with trumpet models as there is with trombone.

Two different things here. Zoom is for "meetings" and solo performances to a group. I have played some solos on Zoom to a Zoom audience of one of the orchestras I play in.

Ensemble playing is done with each member individually recording their part to a click track or backing track then someone clever puts it all together. Here is an example that I participated in for Memorial Day.

You need a reason?

Bends alone do not change tonality immensely or hugely...

If this were the case the after market tuning slides - D shaped, rounded etc, would not make a difference. It is generally accepted that they do.

An acoustics engineer once remarked to me "Sound waves love straight lines." When I change my regular main slide (quite square) with a very round one there is a distinct loss of higher harmonics. I imagine a straight line going along a curved tube; the more gentle the curve the more reflections from the sides, the more reflections, the more highs are lost. This is only a thought, but the change in timbre I describe is real and I can demonstrate this quite easily. My friends at Taylor trumpets made a bell with a sharp acute angle rather than the conventional curve; they tell me (and I believe them) that the trumpet sound is not compromised by this arrangement.

Valve slide crooks have quite sharp bends and the sound wave only bounces off the side of the tube twice to achieve 180 degrees; Tuning slide and Bell bows have much more gradual bends and the timbre can be modified by the shape of these. In fact these bends are one of the many important factors we consider when designing trumpets.