V, V barrel and barrel trumpet mouthpieces

My questions are what the major differences in sound with V, V barrel and barrel mouthpieces? Also why don't I like the 1.5 C or 3 C mouthpieces anymore?
After buying a professional trumpet, found out I didn't like the sound of my 1.5 C mouthpiece. So I bought a 1.5 C Wick Heavytop mouthpiece. Didn't like the sound,to airy in the high notes. Then I bought a Wick Heavytop 3 C, my notes crackled. The 1.5 c and 3c were barrel or V barrel type mouthpieces.
Since I wasn't happy with either mouthpieces, bought a Wick Heavytop 4 X V type mouthpiece and a Bach megatone 5 C and 5 B (V type?).Yes I am happy with them.

Also discovered I like Bach Megatone 4B, 5B, and standard 5C on my cornets. No longer like 1C ,2 C or 3 C mouthpieces either.

Dr GO

I am not sure if it is a sound difference verses the ability more to sculpture the texture of the sound that is produced with a V barrel. I love my V barrel Kenstal G2 (Miles Davis Heim copy) as it really allows flexibility to "play with the air" as it leaves my oral cavity to then swirl into the V cup. The note sounds with stability, but with the V cup you can really dress that sound up with amazing versatility.

@Dr-GO
Thanks for sharing your knowledge about V type mouthpieces. My practice routine involves playing my V type mouthpieces, then my standard mouthpiece. Received the Bach megatone 5 B mouthpiece today. Will have to play it more, decide if I like it best.

Dr GO

Here is John McNeil's discussion of the V cup from his technical jazz trumpet book: "the art of Jazz trumpet":

@Dr-GO
Think I have that book around my house. Glad it confirms I like a dark sound.

stumac

Excuse my ignorance but what is a "Barrel:mouthpiece"? in 35 years of playing I never come across this term until this post nor have I seen it in any mouthpiece manufactures literature.

regards, Stuart.

Kehaulani

There is some historical info on the Gustat/Heim mouthpiece below. You may enjoy reading the text.

I have used a number of Gustat/Heim mouthpieces from various makers. The best and most accurate one I have is a replica that was made of Miles' original mouthpiece especially made for Wallace Roney to play in a special concert with Miles, featuring Miles' music.

I love that piece but it doesn't do as much for me, who also likes the dark side, as my present Reeves. My sentimental one is the original Holton G-2.

I am not sure Gustat/Heims are shaped in a pure V shape like in the drawing. I've had a number of them and they seem to me to be somewhat V shaped but not a pure funnel.

And let the buyer beware. The rims are narrower than conventional rims and some find it uncomfortable. I personally, have no problem with the rim size.

https://legendsmpccom.fatcow.com/legends-heim-2.html

ROWUK

V cups go back to medieval times. They were easy to produce - and worked.

As far as the "modern" trumpet goes there are deep Vee cups like from flugelhorns and cornets - and shallow Vee cups like those that Maynard Ferguson played.

What actually works for the modern player is very debatable. Most of our success is in our heads - what we believe, how we bias confirm what we believe.

I would insist that we need MONTHS to acclimate to a new architecture before we could really know if the switch was good or not.

I use Vee cups for my cornets and flugelhorns and C cups for everything else. I can switch easily back and forth.

I have a Vee cup experiment for a natural trumpet project. There are some historic originals that I want to try.

Dr GO

@ROWUK said in V, V barrel and barrel trumpet mouthpieces:

I have a Vee cup experiment for a natural trumpet project. There are some historic originals that I want to try.

I can see this as a real virtue for the natural trumpet where the versatility of this structure would provide better control on this horn.

@stumac
Took the information off Denis Wick website. Since it is written in British English, I may have misinterpret it.

@ROWUK
Thanks for answering my question and providing information. I posted on the same question on trumpetherald. Apparently on that website, the questions need to be in short sentences.

Shifty

@Gendreauj said in V, V barrel and barrel trumpet mouthpieces:

@stumac
Took the information off Denis Wick website. Since it is written in British English, I may have misinterpret it.

I believe the references to V-type and Barrel in the Denis Wick comparison chart are describing the backbore, not the cup.

@Shifty
Yes. You are right. Guess I didn't write clearly enough. V type means V type back bore.

stumac

Would be interested in seeing a Barrel backbore, when lockdown lifts and I am able to visit the shop if they have some.

This afternoon I checked the backbore of 20 mouthpieces across 7 manufacturers using a No 30 drill rod, all were a straight V. If there is an advantage I will make a profile reamer and alter a couple.

Has anyone experienced the Xstreme mouthpiece made by John Eth with the "Power Chamber."

Regards, Stuart.

Dr GO

@stumac said in V, V barrel and barrel trumpet mouthpieces:

Has anyone experienced the Xstreme mouthpiece made by John Eth with the "Power Chamber."

Regards, Stuart.

Stuart, I have a Harrelson 5 mm mouthpiece with rim and cup producing the V parameters of the Gustat Heim piece, but as you may well know, Harrelson's modular system also comes with an array of backbore sizes and I have a large one coming of the more traditional rim and cup. Man is that design flexible and energy saving!

ROWUK

@stumac I think that a "barrel" backbore would be something like the Schmidt Backbore that Schilke uses as well as certain hyperbolic shapes used by Monette.
Those that get excited about backbores need to keep in mind that the rim, cup, throat, leadpipe and bell are also in the system and that any advantage is very much dependent on the synergy.

A good playing mouthpiece with a standard backbore gets a flat upper register when we change the backbore in this way. Some like that because they play tense and that compensates...

administrator

@ROWUK said in V, V barrel and barrel trumpet mouthpieces:

@stumac I think that a "barrel" backbore would be something like the Schmidt Backbore that Schilke uses as well as certain hyperbolic shapes used by Monette.
Those that get excited about backbores need to keep in mind that the rim, cup, throat, leadpipe and bell are also in the system and that any advantage is very much dependent on the synergy.

A good playing mouthpiece with a standard backbore gets a flat upper register when we change the backbore in this way. Some like that because they play tense and that compensates...

I can't imagine changing backbore is a "quick" solution to any problems. Every part of the mouthpiece affects the other parts of the mouthpiece. Like you said -- it's a system and it has to all be in harmony to truly work well.

I liken it to a bike fit. You can raise or lower your seat, but then you need to adjust the fore & aft position, as well as angle, otherwise the whole system becomes compromised. Not sure I totally agree with that statement about the mouthpiece giving Miles Davis his "dark" sound. I'm pretty sure that sound came from his head first & foremost, and then his trumpet secondary.