Vernacular (of range)



  • @Dr-GO said in Vernacular (of range):
    Is it just me or does anyone else have this trumpet dyslexia where I just cannot play a C trumpet for the life of me as the fingerings are just not matching with what my ears wants to hear.

    I knew a guy, pretty good musician, who played C Melody Sax exclusively, because he had the same problem as you. He eventually quit playing, altogether, because he also had problems adjusting to pianos, or ensembles, that were not playing exactly on pitch.

    I, OTOH and just to use an example, have played and adjusted to instruments in Bb, C, D, F, and Eb with little to no problem. As a matter of fact, I used to switch between C Flute, Eb Alto Sax, Bb Soprano and Tenor Sax and Trempet on the same gig. Ironically, the biggest problem was also going between Bb and C Trumpet.



  • @Dr-GO - I had the same problem when I got a C trumpet a few years back. The "one crazy trick" that worked for me was to play the same tunes, reading on the Bb and C Real Books on Bb and C horns. This seemed to break the connection between seeing a note on a page, using a certain fingering and hearing a "wrong" note. It worked very quickly and also, the intonation problems with the C trumpet magically disappeared.
    Playing from a chart was easy to fix, playing by ear or jazz soloing on the C horn is in the too hard basket.


  • Credentialed Professional

    @Dr-GO said in Vernacular (of range):

    @Bertie said in Vernacular (of range):

    @Dr-GO said in Vernacular (of range):

    I find it easier to understand German!

    ☺
    But I go still nuts when the german say, the play a C3 and for me (catalan) that's a C5

    It has always been my theory that the Germans lost two world wars in part because they put their verbs at the end of their sentences. By the time it was for them to take action... it was too late!

    Yes. It's still make me nuts. By the time I come the end of the phrase, I forgot what I wanted to say...



  • @Shifty said in Vernacular (of range):

    I think you guys are just proving OldSchool's point. I used to teach pilots about electromagnetic theory. A typical fighter radar's frequency band depends on whom you're talking to:

    ITU - Super High Frequency (SHF)
    EU/NATO/US ECM - I band
    IEEE/Radar builder - X band

    Three different names for the same thing. To make it worse, ITU and IEEE can't even agree on the definition of UHF.

    So I told pilots they should ask for numbers instead of names.

    Without memorizing all the frequencies, it would seem the next best approach would be:

    c8908237-3e06-45b0-816b-63b8792c216d-image.png

    Suffice it to say a lot of ink would be saved if you were to show the ones that are in my arsenal.....



  • You would be wasting your time in rehearsals and teaching, rapping with your section mates, etc. if you tried to impose that system on everyone. IMO, it might be acoustically proper, but impractable.



  • @Kehaulani "C4" is two syllables long. "Middle C" (which might mean "low C") has three. "C below the staff" has five.

    I'd be happy with "C4."



  • I'm not talking about how many syllables one uses. I'm talking about brevity in using one terminology that everyone understands, rather than working one's way around various terminologies.



  • @Kehaulani said in Vernacular (of range):

    I'm not talking about how many syllables one uses. I'm talking about brevity in using one terminology that everyone understands, rather than working one's way around various terminologies.

    And there we come full circle back to the problem demonstrated by abundant posts here and at TH - no one understands!



  • When it comes right down to it... just writing the note on a cocktail napkin gets the message across. Even quicker if that napkin was caressing a gin and tonic!



  • @Dr-GO said in Vernacular (of range):

    When it comes right down to it... just writing the note on a cocktail napkin gets the message across.

    Spinal Tap: note on a cocktail napkin.


    😄



  • As long as one doesn't get "un-hinged" about it. Napkins record the word in the moment and should not be relied upon as documenting history.



  • Traditionally, octaves have ALWAYS started on C. The 4 foot/8 foot/16 foot registers all refer to concert C. A 32 foot organ pipe refers to a C.

    If C is the start of an octave, everything else is clear once we decide what to call the C. Here is where tradition has left us with multiple options. C0 to C9 is very clear, but makes it difficult to brag to the uneducated.

    For a trumpeter, it is common to refer to pedal C (2nd space bass clef), low C(one line below the treble clef), mid C (third space), high C(2 ledger lines above the treble clef) and double C (an octave above that).

    The devils advocate would say that the typical trumpeters double C is only a high concert Bb...

    To confuse the hell out of this: Tubas are sold as BB or CC tubas - double Bb or double C;-)



  • @ROWUK said in Vernacular (of range):
    For a trumpeter, it is common to refer to pedal C (2nd space bass clef) . .etc.

    Rowuk, I don't doubt that in the circles that you travel, a Pedal Note is something that one uses as a point of reference. But in my experience, that has never been the case. When referring to an instrument's playing-range terminology, it was always related to the instrument's lowest conventional playing note.

    Your periodic dogmatism sometimes surprises me.



  • @ROWUK said in Vernacular (of range):

    Traditionally, octaves have ALWAYS started on C. The 4 foot/8 foot/16 foot registers all refer to concert C. A 32 foot organ pipe refers to a C.

    If C is the start of an octave, everything else is clear once we decide what to call the C. Here is where tradition has left us with multiple options. C0 to C9 is very clear, but makes it difficult to brag to the uneducated.

    For a trumpeter, it is common to refer to pedal C (2nd space bass clef), low C(one line below the treble clef), mid C (third space), high C(2 ledger lines above the treble clef) and double C (an octave above that).

    The devils advocate would say that the typical trumpeters double C is only a high concert Bb...

    To confuse the hell out of this: Tubas are sold as BB or CC tubas - double Bb or double C;-)

    I always thought that organ ranks started with the long C pipe and got shorter from there (higher). So that system would then mean that "Low B" is in the middle of the staff, and "Pedal B" is right under "Low C" just below the staff. I dont think of a normally played note as being "Pedal", nor of notes below pedal C being "double pedal" tones. So for this system to work, and it does best in my opinion, unlike the organ, you would have to start at "____ C" and go down (adding length as the horn does, so respecting that the notes are effectively derivatives of that above).

    While I certainly dont run in Rowuk's circle, pedal notes down to E below pedal C in Bb terms have been a normal, utilized, part of my playing range since I was 7 years old. I dont think discounting them is realistic.



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  • @Kehaulani I am probably 100% dogmatic (not periodic). I like the pleasures of doing things that work. Reaching goals, getting stuff done just appeals to me and the straight and narrow have served me well.

    The pedal tone is actually the fundamental, everything else are partials.



  • Acoustically. Not always functionally.
    BTW, do you need any help in dislodging your tongue from your cheek, LOL?


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