Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker

grune

made by their maker? sorry, the grammar is nonsensical. also, how does a "supra" relate to a trumpet?

BigDub

How about, “for sale by owner”, or “Hand crafted sandwich”?
Except for the Brooklyn bridge, most things are sold by the owner......
and what else are you going to use to make a sandwich, a fork, or a spatula?

Dr GO

@grune said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

made by their maker? sorry, the grammar is nonsensical. also, how does a "supra" relate to a trumpet?

The person's who's name is on it is the person that made the horn. No other technician. Where is the bad grammar?

I don't see the problem with the statement, so please enlighten me (us) to your version of perfect grammar.

administrator

A maker by very definition makes the thing they are maker of. The question really asks, "are there any trumpets where all of their parts are made and assembled in-house?"

Kehaulani

George - you know, "supra" is good English, as in - supra-man, or supra-size.

administrator

Supra is a popular sports car. The original was manufactured by Toyota in in the 90s and early 2000s. It quickly became a legend, thanks, in part to the Fast and Furious movie. Recently, Toyota released a new version, which happens to be largely based on a BMW sports car. It's a good car, but some enthusiasts have expressed discontent over the lack of "purity." However, it is a moot point in my mind. A good car is a good car--whoever the manufacturer may be! I think the same is true for the trumpet. It might be fun to speculate or talk about things like "who bakes their own bread with wheat they grew in their backyard," but it really doesn't matter.

administrator

This is also how I feel about products, in general, and their country of origin. I'm not going to get into a political debate here. However, I am not a nationalist. I believe that our world is, more or less, a global economy and market. I have owned Bachs, which are 100% American-made; Bill Pfund trumpets, which are mostly made in China and modified by Mr. Pfund; Yamahas, which are made in Japan; Getzen, which are 100% American-made; Scherzer, which is 100% German (I believe) and various others which I cannot remember. They were all fine instruments. Quality is quality, and is worth the money.

Tobylou8

@administrator said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

Supra is a popular sports car. The original was manufactured by Toyota in in the 90s and early 2000s. It quickly became a legend, thanks, in part to the Fast and Furious movie. Recently, Toyota released a new version, which happens to be largely based on a BMW sports car. It's a good car, but some enthusiasts have expressed discontent over the lack of "purity." However, it is a moot point in my mind. A good car is a good car--whoever the manufacturer may be! I think the same is true for the trumpet. It might be fun to speculate or talk about things like "who bakes their own bread with wheat they grew in their backyard," but it really doesn't matter.

HAHA!! You're showing your age! I almost bought an '82 Supra when it shared the platform with the Celica. It was a GREAT car for it's day. I had to make a choice between it and a Mazda RX-7. UPS was considering a strike and the Mazda was cheaper, so I bought it. UPS didn't go on strike and I went back to the dealer to see if I could trade. It was my first real experience with the car business. They're nice until you're off the lot! They would only give me half of what I paid, 2 weeks later. Ahh, that beautiful black Supra......

grune

@administrator said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

A maker by very definition makes the thing they are maker of. The question really asks, "are there any trumpets where all of their parts are made and assembled in-house?"

In that case, for a trumpet that is hand-made by a single craftsman in-house, click these links:

http://www.musik-loebner.de/Musikhaus_Loebner.php?Loebners=Zylinderjazztrompete.html#close

[these will be in the category of... if you must ask for the price, you cannot afford it. ]

ROWUK

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus. Players buy custom horns because they CAN, not because they musically "have to".

There is a concept that the horn finds the player that I think is very true - but how much opportunity do we get to play those custom horns long enough before we pay? Being honest - essentially never. Has anyone checked out how many used custom horns are available - more than one would expect considering how special they are supposed to be.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player. Well, the truth is that all of those custom builders are giving you what they believe. You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing. Who has the ability to finesse the strengths of a player in the match of instrument. I can only think of one manufacturer that does and it only works like that on the second, third or fourth instrument.

So, my take is:

start safe with a "standard" Bach, Schilke, Yamaha if you are really serious. Then as time goes on and dues are paid, play everything that you can get your hands on. Visit players that have "interesting horns" and take your time.
if you get a second horn, play it exclusively for a while to get intimate with it
NEVER EVER believe that hardware will solve a software problem.

Dr GO

@ROWUK said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

Even although I own some trumpets that qualify in this thread, I think that the concept is bogus.

Another misconception is the custom horn built for the player... You may get a choice of bell, bore or weight, but what trumpeter really understands how a trumpet works AND how they work? What builder takes the time to really get to know the intimate side of a clients playing.

I have an answer to these questions: Harrelson.

His concepts take personal production to the artist. and any artist that doesn't do this, I guess risks making a bogus purchase.

Harrelson gives you the opportunity to take bogus out of the equation:
Harrelson I agree gives choices of many bell sizes, flairs, and leadpipe configurations. And once again, I agree with the above post, "but what trumpeter really understands [this]." You really don't know what this actually relates to the sound unless you play with these sizes and combine the options.

The concept on intimate: Jason is gifted on this concept. Harrelson first sent a representative into my region of the country to display a wide range or horns, including bell sizes, leadpipe configurations, and models. That is how I first discovered a Harrelson. I played all the horns his representative brought to this meeting of professional players. I found the combination that worked for me during that session, and had the ability to try many. I found the combination that outperformed all of the vintage horns I had ever owned, and in my mind, was never so clear with a purchasing decision. AND ONLY after that experience, did Jason schedule an interview with me (which lasted 15 minutes) to be assured that this was, indeed the horn that was going to deliver my long term performance goals for how I intended to use that horn. I know of no other technical master that goes to that length to serve their customer.

So can purchasing a horn from Harrelson wind up as a bogus decision? Yes it can if you chose not to discuss this with the Master. But does Jason do everything possible to give the opportunity to the customer to get the experience right? From my experience in working with horns, he really does.

I have gone to many trumpet hangs to play on the horns I have purchased to make sure I know what I was getting, but Jason is the only horn maker I know that brings a trumpet hang to you, to give the professional the chance to understand his product.

ROWUK

@Dr-GO you know my opinion of Jason Harrelson and his business practices. I do not consider his palette of instruments that adaptive. Sure, there is a lot to customize, I consider his approach to give a very „playable“ instrument but it locks the player into a certain shade of color. That is the bogusness of the concept. It is not what is in the players head, it is the shade injected by the maker.

This is my point. Those that buy those instruments do not „have to“, they simply can. The story comes after the fact.

I was with a student recently at a well stocked music store. The student was looking for a C trumpet. There were 6 instruments there, additionally I had my modified tuning bell Bach CL229H and my Monette Raja. For that student, a used Schilke screamed buy me! He sounded better with that instrument than with all the others. We had rehearsed auditioning instruments weeks before the trip. The student stuck to the audition procedures and was able to easily sift through the choices. We used my Monette as a reference but in the students case, it did not have that something special that the Schilke did.

I know of one manufacturer in Munich that has built „reference“ trumpets that are not sold or loaned. Potential buyers get a valve section and add parts with the goal of putting an instrument together that is better than the reference. They have a box of over 100 leadpipes -all essentially that all measure the same - but play differently. With the right audition procedure it only takes an hour to get the „best one“. Then comes the bell - much harder to zero in. At the end, braces are fitted. With another student of mine, we needed 3 hours to select the parts. This is what I was talking about. We got a horn that matched what was in the players head. It took 100 leadpipes and 10+ bells. This is NOT the Harrelson or Monette experience.

I can‘t speak for Harrelson as I have only played them but never bought one. In the case of Monette where I have 3, I can testify that the first one changed me. The second one was built on 10 years of communication with Monette and the positive experiences with the first instrument. He changed it. The third instrument is simply pick it up and play. There is no need to „think“ about color. It just happens.

The time frame needed to make musical decisions precludes „magic“.

Dr GO

@ROWUK said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

The time frame needed to make musical decisions precludes „magic“.

I too, don't believe in magic... but rather rely on talent and practice. For me, my Harrelson begs for me to practice, the talent comes from the other end, as your students are also finding out from your devoted teaching.

administrator

Harrelson certainly qualifies as a trumpet maker who "does it all." That might explain why it takes so long to complete his horns. I'm not necessarily into how they play, but they are 100% custom. Same with Monette.

stumac

Jerome Wiss, a French maker who has completely redesigned the trumpet including the valve block with only 2 passages through the valves, in the up position the air goes through one port in one direction, in the down position the same port in the opposite direction, makes it all himself.

He came on TH three years ago announcing his new trumpet and was driven off by people who could not understand how it worked.

I ordered one beginning of April, delivery November/December.

Regards, Stuart.

ROWUK

@stumac said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

Jerome Wiss, a French maker who has completely redesigned the trumpet including the valve block with only 2 passages through the valves, in the up position the air goes through one port in one direction, in the down position the same port in the opposite direction, makes it all himself.

He came on TH three years ago announcing his new trumpet and was driven off by people who could not understand how it worked.

I ordered one beginning of April, delivery November/December.

Regards, Stuart.

I am anxious to hear of your first and lasting impressions. While standard valves (rotary and piston) in many respects are really "dumb design" (in respect to geometry, wear, mass, friction), they have stood the test of time. It is great that we have some free thinkers like Wiss, Monette and others that push the envelope - in spite of the nay sayers.

Kehaulani

I share getting the feedback with Robin.
But, for me, I really don't care about the technology unless there are tangible enhancements to the horn's sound and playability, itself. Be interested in the feedback.

J. Jericho

Repositioning the tubing inside and out is an alternative, but I wonder if it really makes a difference in the way it plays compared to the design we are more accustomed to. Other factors affect the way an instrument plays. For Wiss to attribute the openness to the valve block design may or may not be accurate. It may contrubute; it may not. It looks to me like the Wiss trumpet would be awkward to hold for the left hand, with the tubing pressing against the palm.

ROWUK

@J-Jericho Everything makes a difference. Sometimes a couple of grams of mass can change response dramatically. I notice a huge difference between rotary and piston valves too. The Wiss valve block is so different in mass and geometry, I am sure that there is a difference in how it plays. That being said, I cannot attribute any deficite in trumpet design to valve blocks. Small imperfections in the bore are what makes a trumpet even playable. The closer we get to a "perfect" horn, the harder it is to tune and the more uneven the blow is.

MasterWannabe

@cuivree said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

@administrator said in Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker:

Besides Monette, Harrelson, Getzen and Conn-Selmer (and the now defunct Kanstul), I do not know of any American trumpet makers that truly make 100% of components in-house (excluding spit valves, of course).

Kanstul isn't defunct - yet. They're still breathing, but the life support plug may be pulled at any moment.

I am not sure what you mean by 'Still breathing' but when I called Kanstul several weeks ago looking for a part they told me they were out of business and all parts were gone.

Trumpets Made ONLY by Their Maker

Ray Z