Mouthpiece issue
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I”m a ex music professor 80 yrs old, and played trumpet badly for a couple of years 50 years ago. I have a new Bach Strad and 7C, 6C, 5C, and 3E mouthpieces. I’ve studied several YouTube videos on embouchure and aperture and have been getting good, full tone from G on the staff down to the F# below as well as the pedals. But I had not been able, after several weeks, to get any results above the G. The mouthpieces I have best results with ar the 6C and 3E. Today,just for the heck of it, I moved the mouthpiece half its width to the right on my lips. To my shock, blowing softly and with just enough pressure to seal the mouthpiece to my lips, I was able to lip slur from the bottom C through the high Bb and C 2 octaves above and back down, hitting each overtone solidly and with good tone.
Am I correct in interpreting that to suggest I need a wider mouthpiece and probably the same cup depth?
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@walter-sk
Hi, Walter. I am almost 85 and started playing in 2016 after a 50 year hiatus. I played between 1953 and 1965 before quitting and used a Bach 10.5C. I thought it would work for me when I came back but it didn't. I had to safari my way through several mp makes and sizes. Today I use both an Austin Custom Brass 3CS mp and a MD65 Wedge. The most reliable is the Wedge and is my " go to " mouthpiece for most of my playing.
I guess I am trying to say to you that what worked 50 years ago will not necessarily work now. Are your teeth different now ? I have a full upper denture now and that was likely one of the reasons why the smaller 10.5 no longer worked. The Wedge I am using is a bit large with an ID at .650 inches, so perhaps a larger piece would work for you without having to play to the side of the lips rather than dead center.
It was quite an accomplishment for you to suddenly get from Low C below the staff to high C above the staff all because of a shift in mp placement on the chops. You didn't say what mp you were using but if the shift in placement and whatever the mp was that got you a 2 octave scale ( providing it was not a one time fluke ) then perhaps it would be smart to stick with them.
Good luck on your come back.George
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Hi,
you are probably not correct in saying that you need a wider mouthpiece. It might just be that in the course of your life, your jaws and teeth have changed in shape and size so that your ideal embouchure does not sit in the middle anymore, but slightly to your right. That is no catastrophe - there are many fantastic players out there who are using an off-centre embouchure. Try where your tone and range are best and most comfortable to you; but that is something best done with a teacher. Try if rowuk here might take you in an online session - he's one of the wisest around here.
Courtois Balanced
Courtois D
Olds Recording
Buescher Aristocrat
Gaudet C
Selmer G
Courtois 154 Flugelhorn
Besson International Bb cornet
Courtois Bb cornet
B&H Sovereign Soprano Cornet
B&H Sovereign trombone
Willy Garreis trombone
Weltklang Euph -
@barliman2001 Thank you Elmar!
In my world, range is not really a function of mouthpiece or embouchure, it is "mostly" the synergy between the blow and lip tension. I can play my highest notes when I am most relaxed. When I increase embouchure tension, I have to "blow harder" and that makes life more "difficult".
My "secret" for range is slowing down. Longtones with minimal (not zero) lip or mouthpiece pressure. Once the juices are flowing, then lots of EASY lipslurs. I use the Earl Irons Lip Flexibilities book.
Before we get to mechanics, we have to get our breathing under control. I use a visualisation called "the circle of breath". Envision a large circle. From 6:00 to 12:00 is inhale, from 12:00 to 6:00 is exhale. Please note that the transition from inhale to exhale is perfectly smooth - just like the circle. That means that your inhale is timed to be finished exactly at 12:00 and that you have not gone into "compression" - where you need to release tension to even exhale. At 6:00 the opposite happens.
I am talking about practice habits here to "organize" breathing/body use and playing. When performing, we can not always maintain "best practices" as the RESULTS justify the means. Our daily practice is to refine the bodies part of playing and generally less tension is more range, articulation, tone and endurance.
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@rowuk Robin,
as a part-time singing teacher, I've utilized the Circle of Breath many times... it really works. But as I feel it is more or less YOUR CoB, I let you explain it. -
" The Circle Of Breath " was a great help to me during my comeback. I go back to it when the need is evident, and that is often.
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A wider rim will likely lead to quicker fatigue. That's been my experience, at least.
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@administrator said in Mouthpiece issue:
A wider rim will likely lead to quicker fatigue. That's been my experience, at least.
It does... and a deep cup to this... it's like fatigue running up hill!
Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
Harrelson Summit 2017
Kanstul 1526 2012
Getzen Power Bore 1961
Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
Martin Committee 1946
Olds Super Recording 1940
Olds Recording (LA) 1953
Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
Olds Ambassador 1965 -
I still think he should go with the mouthpiece that allowed him to play a two octave scale. He never did say which mp he used.
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@administrator said in Mouthpiece issue:
A wider rim will likely lead to quicker fatigue. That's been my experience, at least.
Maybe you should try some mouthpieces from the baroque era. They are much larger than modern mouthpieces and have very large flat rims - but no shortage of high notes!
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@rowuk ... or he should use the Bach numbering system. You know... the number of high notes is stamped into the mouthpiece, along with which pitch the mouthpiece contains! For example, a 10-1/2 C enables you to play ten and one half octaves of the note "C", whereas a 2 only has two undetermined high notes available.
'62 Olds Studio Trumpet
'67 Olds Special Trumpet
2013 Dillon Pocket Trumpet
'83 Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn
1919 York Perfec-Tone Cornet
'50 Olds Studio Trombone
Shofar"If it was just up to me, I'd only have trumpet players on my show." - Jackie Gleason
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@j-jericho LOL!!! You can be really mean.
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I think if Walter.SK would move the mouthpiece to the side of his head, he could play by ear!
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Just received the most flat rim Harrelson makes for his 5mm mouthpieces.
I merged this to a deep cup, wide throat and wide backbore and boy have I found a gem. It creates such a dark, deep tone with amazing flexibility. Oh boy what a sound it puts into my Summit. Yeah, It fatigues, but so does great sex! -
@Dr-GO So many players choose equipment based on what they can handle and they are limited by those choices they have to make.
I am firm believer in building chops and ability to handle tough gear and when you can handle the tough gear the door opens to outstanding playing.
As they say when the going gets tough the tough get going.
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@j-jericho said in Mouthpiece issue:
@rowuk ... or he should use the Bach numbering system. You know... the number of high notes is stamped into the mouthpiece, along with which pitch the mouthpiece contains! For example, a 10-1/2 C enables you to play ten and one half octaves of the note "C", whereas a 2 only has two undetermined high notes available.
Now I understand completely.
Sorry for the wandering.
Back to the question, though, I think the real thing is taking your time with it, and not trying to microwave your results. More of a slow cook approach. ( I am paraphrasing what Rowuk said. He knows the deal. ) -
@walter-sk Interesting, a post 2021 and no response after that. I often wonder how serious the questions are - and how serious some of the answers are. Are we scaring folks off, or are they just posting the usual trumpet thing of not having enough range (that I interpret as no process for building)?
In any case, since I have my upper/lower dentures and implants now, I revisit the tension vs blow thing every single day.
That being said, mouthpiece size (within reason) makes no difference. The Baroque mouthpieces with 19-21 mm inner rims have the same high notes as my modern 10 1/2C on the pick. My go to orchestra mouthpieces are around 1C size - with the same high notes.
I firmly believe that we use mouthpieces to change tone - not range. With the right tone for the genre, playing in the upper register fits better and THAT makes it easier.
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I always find it odd and annoying when a new member posts a question (in this case, two), gets good responses, and then........... nothing! No acknowledgement, no more posts.......... nothing!
'62 Olds Studio Trumpet
'67 Olds Special Trumpet
2013 Dillon Pocket Trumpet
'83 Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn
1919 York Perfec-Tone Cornet
'50 Olds Studio Trombone
Shofar"If it was just up to me, I'd only have trumpet players on my show." - Jackie Gleason
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@j-jericho said in Mouthpiece issue:
I always find it odd and annoying when a new member posts a question (in this case, two), gets good responses, and then........... nothing! No acknowledgement, no more posts.......... nothing!
Frequently I ask a question of them before adding anything else. That is to find out if they are still there and paying attention. I also ask myself if the comments I make are to help them, or just to impress everyone with my vast knowledge. If it is the latter, I usually skip posting.
Of course that means the world is denied a huge opportunity to expand their knowledge base and be guided to enlightenment. Ooops. Maybe this was one not to post.
Richard III
1977 Olds Ambassador Cornet
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@richard-iii It wouldn't bother me a bit if you posted more.
