Best posts made by OldSchoolEuph

I think my past posts on forums have made my view on the value of open sharing of ideas well known. Just the same, even I will admit that there have to be some boundaries, or any forum is doomed to failure.

The last thing I want to see is the Administrator posting less, or less involved. I know there are those who don't see it this way, but I will always recognize that the owner of the site, owns the site. I may vehemently disagree with that person, and I hope they will allow me to, but at the end of the day, if someone undertakes creating a forum, it is theirs to run as they see fit. If no-one likes how they run it, well, it will be more of a blog.

Now, if the Administrator is open to suggestion, and the title of this thread pretty much says so, then I suggest minimal rules.

1. Any content that crosses the line into actionable defamation, thereby placing the site owner at risk financially, has to be deleted
2. The site owner can refuse membership to anyone for any reason
3. Content should be topic-related
4. Moderators should recognize their own biases and strive to be neutral in any debate - protecting not only their own point of view, but that with which they disagree (this is the hard one, and the reason for one last suggestion)
5. When something is controversial in the world at large, particularly if morality is declared a determinant, that debate should not be welcome - it wont be resolved in a forum. (And for those who object to proscribing moral advocacy, sorry, but you are forgetting that what a society considers to be good or evil changes over time. Right and wrong, regardless of how strongly we feel them, are opinions and only become truths when universally accepted. Want to change the world? Great! Start a forum for that.)

Notice I did not mention profanity or personal attacks. Maybe I am too much of an optimist, but I think that when people make fools of themselves in that way, maybe the world should get to see it. . . .

What works for one may not for another.

The only Olds I ever really took a liking to, having played most variants a little here & there, was the original Studio - it is one of the most flexible in tone and character I have ever encounter. But, the more it can do for you, the more it can do to you. As for the Mendez: I can appreciate its qualities including the light response, but I'ld rather have a Strad.

Now as for the Connstellation, that's a different story. I do not care for 38Bs at all, but feel the 28B is fantastic (both "Constellation" models, but radically different). That's me. I'm guessing here, but I suspect Kehaulani will prefer the 38B.

The great thing about so many options in trumpets is that everyone has a good chance of finding what helps them be their best.

@administrator said in Brick & Mortar Music Stores:

When I learned of Rayburn's music in Boston (across the street from Symphony Hall) shutting its doors, that was the moment I realized that brick-and-mortar music stores were done for. I'm not sure how it is in the rest of the world, but in the USA, brick-and-mortar stores of all kinds are struggling. Same with bicycle shops.

Actually, you might have to walk another 50 feet or so, but Virtuosity is there now diagonally across the intersection. https://www.virtuosityboston.com/

"French Bead" is a flattened rolled end to the bell flare. It is sometimes accomplished by folding the metal in on itself (quite hard to do), but more often with a flat ring in place of the usual wire. Bach uses an interesting wire for the Artisan French Bead rim that is a half-round wire in the cross-section. (Not sure where they get that)

"Tone Ring" is a term made popular by companies like FE Olds for adding what for centuries has been called a garland. This is a separate piece of metal generally that is pinched into the rim bead - often nickle for color contrast. There are complex acoustical formulas for installing these such that they float above the bell curve (not sure how valid they are personally) - though this one appears to simply be laminated onto, and of matching brass.

Garlands were commonplace on continental brass instruments for several hundred years (long before valves) and appear on most historic French, German, Austrian, etc. natural and baroque trumpets - extending into the early Austrian, Bohemian and Saxon cornets.

@ROWUK - I always found disagreeing with you on TM both entertaining and enlightening. (and sometimes quite a challenge as we dont necessarily disagree on much). The back & forth of differing experience and differing understandings helps root out truth - I will always support that, and found you to be one of the most valuable contributors in that regard.

So the issue is civility. Is it not possible to moderate a forum in such manner as civil discourse, civil debate, is possible? The only challenge is for a moderator to manage to suppress his/her own bias - which some do better at than others.

@Kehaulani said in New Player has entered the Game - Part 2:

@GeorgeB said in New Player has entered the Game - Part 2:
I practice at 5 am to 6 am mornings .

I thought 5 AM was when you were getting IN not when you're getting UP.

Some of us start work now when we used to go to sleep - "maturity" sucks!

@tmd said in Professional musicians on this board question:

@Newell-Post said in Professional musicians on this board question:

@GeorgeB If you got paid, then you meet the traditional definition of a professional. You don't need to earn your full-time living doing it.

My definition is different ... You're a professional trumpet player, if playing the trumpet is how you make a living. Of course, it's okay to have different definitions. And I think GeorgeB's definition is very reasonable, too. And I think many would agree with him.

Mike

This prompted me to think of some of those who augmented their playing income in order to make a living (so technically not professional players by this standard, but are amply represented in trades media, held significant posts, have multiple commercial recordings etc.):
Wynton Marsalis
Doc Severinsen
Rafael Mendez
Al Hirt
Frankie Avalon
Miles Davis
Dizzy Gillespie
Louis Armstrong
Renold Schilke
Elden Benge
Rudy Muck (both of them)
Vincent Bach
Don Berry
Joseph Gustat
Gustav Heim
Earnst Couturier
Henry Distin

To earn one's living just from playing is not just rare today, but always has been rare. At the heyday of major symphonies, the typical performer held at least 2 other jobs to keep food on the table (look up Fred Forman some time - a true performing musician's life).

@stumac said in New to my collection:

The bead of the Selmer is not an added piece, just the edge of the bell rolled back and formed into shape. Selmer were not the only ones to have this bead, my Buffet-Crampon has a similar one.

Regards, Stuart

I have not looked at one in person. I would like to see if there are clues as to how it was done.

That would be quite a task to accomplish since the metal folded back would have been stretched out wider on the mandrel and would have to be compressed back to a smaller ring in the process - which is why inserting a ring of flat stock and pinning it with the rolled edge bead is the more typical approach for both free-standing garlands and applied garland-like trim.

My opinion is that the science is superficial and the history linked to it exceptionally sparse, but as a quick "what is a trumpet 101" set of linked pages, its excellent fluff.

We need fluff. Not everyone wants or needs to be a gearhead. Some just want a 4th grade book report level of understanding and this set of pages does that in a way that may actually recruit some more kids, or their parents, to the instrument. Wish it were better publicized.

I certainly liked it better than the You-Tube Xeno plant tour with Jens. That could scare parents away from ever letting their kids get near a trumpet - or more specifically the people who play them.

@Pinstriper said in Crickets?:

BAC is handing System Blue, which is now made offshore. Yamaha of course is probably the biggest footprint. Kanstul's offshore Tama line was a thing, dunno what became of that. And there are a smattering of lines running Andalucia horns which are also offshore production.

Tony Scodwell is also launching a new flugel, of course as Kanstul has shut. No word yet on who is doing the production. Seems like everything is either offshore or BAC, and I worry if BAC tries to fill every void. Maybe they can.

I have heard Andalucia lines - the depth of sound knocks you back on your heels. They were a mix of Carol & Kanstul for a time. I assume they have reverted to all Carol then (?)

BAC has been fairly clear about not trying to be everything Kanstul did - it was a bad strategy for Kanstul, and they can see that careful targeted products are a much more prudent course of action.

I have a few Bachs, one of which is in my signature because it is my go-to whenever I need that standard Bach sound. The full list is:

2009/10 180SMLV72G with the 25 pipe

1988 TR-300 (when I was first trying to get a sound out of a trumpet, a good friend suggested I use this, his middle-school horn, instead of a 1919 Holton I had rebuilt from lamp parts using plumbing tools)

1970 Early Elkhart 25

1964 Mt. Vernon 180-37 (despite my supplying him several alternatives including a great AW Stage 470LT, my Dad is happiest playing this old, yet still all one could ask for Bach 37)

1963 Mt Vernon 43 (my baby)

1956 Byron Autrey's customized NY-wrap Mt. Vernon 37 (more open blow, looser slotting, sweet tone - a joy to play)

Well, for once, I disagree with Ivan - not something I recall happening before.

The English vernacular may support such use of "their", but the English language does not. (much like "sketch" in place of dubious or suspect). There exists no neutral gender form in English other than "it", which I think we all agree would be a bit rude. This example of deterioration of the language is particularly objectionable for purists in that it technically amounts to a single-plural conflict as well.

@Newell-Post said in Hello! Welcome to TB, who are you?:

just remember that Texas isn't well, you know, quite representative of the whole country.

And if the Californian invasion of Austin can just be halted, will hopefully stay that way!

For those who have been asking for the book to be enhanced, a second edition is now available (Amazon). The second edition is 25% longer, includes many of the tables found a trumpet-history.com, and is updated with chapters for the last 2 decades. Some of the specific requests accommodated:

• Subject index.
• Index of models depicted (410+, first edition was just shy of 350).
• Many minor early makers now included, however briefly.
• The occasional dark photo now digitally brightened and enhanced.
• Stories contributed by Dale Olson, Byron Autrey, Roy Hempley and others since publication of the first edition.

Conn-Selmer still builds trumpets at the King Eastlake and Bach Elkhart plants. These include (appropriately enough) those sold under the Bach and King names. Those sold under the Aristocrat and Prelude names on the other hand are stencilled Asian imports.

In past years, the Bach TR-200, TR-500, TR-501, TR-600 and TR-711 and similar horns were Bach-branded imports. The TR-300 was for all of about 9 months in 2009, all other TR-300s are now, as they were previously, made at Eastlake with Bach Elkhart bells. Conn-Selmer came to their senses a couple years ago and started segmenting the imports into the other brand names to halt the damage they were doing to the Bach and King names.

@rowuk
Our experience and perception relative to true Mt. Vernon, Mt. Vernon 180, and Early Elkhart Bachs is vastly different. I am not used to hearing people knock those. As for the earlier modern Elkhart 180s, I know pros who started on randomly picked stock 180S37s in high school around 1979/80 and, though they can play anything they want today, still have that high school horn in their arsenal - one rather prominent player as backup to his primary Bb, a modern 37 (though he admittedly has to spend most of his time on a 229).

That being said, the best way to pick a Bach is to play a lot of them. Bachs are not consistent in the finer details with the intent of having a variety of horns to fit a variety of players. Many will not be a perfect fit for you, a few will. Its not a quality problem, its a quality choice - to have product as diverse as those who play them. What works for you may suck for me and vice versa. (though really, people like to exaggerate - "suck" is just an egotistical statement based on believing we are that much better than everyone else)