Chemical Cleaning
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There isn't much information on this forum about chemical cleaning. After looking through various results on Google, I'm still not sure of the best way to go. I have an old trumpet, with some calcification, and I would like it removed!
So, chemical cleaning is done by submerging a brass instrument in an acid - Phosphoric Acid seems to be the one most places use. I suppose that the skill comes from knowing the correct dilution, and submerging time.
It seems that some people are quite against the idea of putting their beloved instrument into acid, and I must say I understand the hesitation. Is it assured not to affect the lacquer, or to remove part of the metal in places that we cannot see? Or in places we can see, for that matter.
I don't know! And I'm starting this thread to see what other people's experience has been with this process. Has anyone done their own chemical cleaning at home? What did you use? What was the result?
Can anyone recommend a professional to carry out a chemical cleaning in the London/Hertfordshire area?
1966 - King 1055T Silver Flair
2020 - Yamaha YTR-4335GSII
Trumpeter: Did you hear my last recital?
Friend: I hope so. -
@trumpetlearner For my home cleaning I use a dilute CLR, one liter bottle in about 15 liters of water, this does a pretty good job, for heavy corrosion several soakings may be needed with a brushing between each. I usually immerse for about 1/2 hour, although I have inadvertantly left slides in overnight with seemingly no effect. White vinegar is also good, used straight, I once did a test by immersing one leg of a slide in a glass of white vinegar and left it for 24 nours, other a slight green tinge of the vinegar and the leg coming out clean I could not detect any other change.. I asked a repair man that I have a very good relations with what he used, he used a mixture of Phosphoric and Citric acids he could not tell me the concentration, just added to water till he thought it was enough. Regards, Stuart.
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@trumpetlearner
I am more comfortable in leaving the cleaning of my horns to experienced techs like Flugel Girl. They know their stuff. -
As with GeorgeB, I have my local brass technician do chemical cleans on my horns... and I'm a chemist!
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Part of training as a tech is learning to use the appropriate chemicals and methods of cleaning, and if your tech is even average, they will know how to do this safely. It’s NOT a hazard to your horn - whether vintage or new. Generally, we use the chemicals to soften up that calcification so we can flush it out with a method better not used in home use. A home soak others have described won’t really hurt your horn, but they won’t do the same job, either. To give you an idea of the safety of pro level chemicals, I can pull horns out of the tank with no gloves and the worst I might get is dry skin or a cut might sting. Older methods/chemicals can be more caustic than the chemical I use, but since 100+ year old horns have more damage from the acid in your skin than the acid in the tank, I wouldn’t worry.
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Now that we have FG here to comment, I have a question. I've had chem cleans and ultrasonic cleans. I had an old cornet that had a valve problem. The tech chem cleaned and did everything he could, still had the problem. Actually this has happened to me with a number of horns. Then a different tech ultrasonically cleaned and the problems were solved.
Since then, I only go to shops with ultrasonic cleaning.What is going on?
Richard III
1943 Conn 80A Cornet
2008 York Eminence Cornet
1903 Conn "The Wonder" Cornet
1947 Cleveland Clevelander Cornet -
Flugel Girl advised me to do chemical, rather than ultrasonic for a vintage trumpet, in case there is red rot. Ultrasonic is probably good if there is no risk of red rot.
So, I have managed to find a guy in Birmingham that can do the chemical clean for me. He seems like a nice guy, and he came recommended, so I'll let you all know how it goes.
After much searching, I was only able to find two places in the UK that mentioned chemical cleaning for brass instruments!
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@richard-iii it could be a number of things, from methods used to skill of said tech. The flush used after chemical or ultrasonic cleaning can leave some grit if not properly cleaned out - that could easily have been the problem in this case. My general rule of thumb is if it is older than me, or if it has been really used and rarely cleaned, I don’t turn on the UC. My mentor doesn’t use a UC at all, and cleans with zero issues.
Daily players: Adams A1, A4LT, F2 flugel , CN1 cornet.
Schagerl Raweni
Puje 3am(named for me), Benge pocket
Schilke P5-4, C5L
Yamaha 761 Eb/D
Lots of vintage toys -
@flugelgirl said in Chemical Cleaning:
@richard-iii it could be a number of things, from methods used to skill of said tech. The flush used after chemical or ultrasonic cleaning can leave some grit if not properly cleaned out - that could easily have been the problem in this case. My general rule of thumb is if it is older than me, or if it has been really used and rarely cleaned, I don’t turn on the UC. My mentor doesn’t use a UC at all, and cleans with zero issues.
Interesting. I did see grit after the chem cleaning. Thanks.
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@stumac said in Chemical Cleaning:
acids he could not tell me the concentration, just added to water till he thought it was enough. Regards, Stuart.
Basic rule: the more anything can do for you, the more it can do to you. Chem and ultrasonic cleanings should be used sparingly, and only when there is no choice. The skill and experience of the person doing the cleaning makes all the difference between minimal impact and an improvement over where you were, and doing irreversible damage.
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I’ve been told by the local instrument restoration shop that ultrasonic cleaning will often open up all sorts of red rot damage that wasn’t leaking before the cleaning. They warn people about that before accepting older or obviously compromised instruments for ultrasonic cleaning. I can tell you from experience, though, that they are very good at plugging those tiny holes almost invisibly.
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So, I had my 1966 Silver Flair chemically cleaned, and the results are amazing! Big thank you to Flugelgirl for recommending that I seek out a professional, to have my trumpet chemically cleaned - I'm glad I followed your advice!
The technician that I used was Andrew Clennell, and I couldn't have been happier with the service I received. He's a great guy, and an extremely experienced musician and repairer. I highly recommend his services, if you need any brass instrument cleaned, repaired, or serviced.
