Trumpeter: Did you hear my last recital?
Friend: I hope so.

@dr-go THis is exactly the kind of thing that would be nice to see in a 'recommended' section, to let other users know where the reliable technicians can be found!

I don't know if the forum has the capability, but it would be even better if the recommendations could be pinned to a map, to easily allow forum members to find someone in their area.

The Great One! Thanks for keeping his memory alive.

I'm just starting out learning the trumpet, but an instrument caught my eye - the King Silver Flair 1055T. I have done a bit of research, and apparently it was the top pro model for King from 1964 to 1979. So, I've seen one for sale, but have no experience in buying a used trumpet, so I thought I had better get some advice.

Two things spring to mind - There is no 1st valve slide hook. Is it supposed to have one? If not, how does one operate the slide during playing?

The other thing is, one of the buttons is not original. I was wondering why this could be. Is it common for them to be damaged? If the button has had a knock, could the valve be damaged too? Also, it appears to be the middle button - so I would expect that one to be less likely to be knocked. I thought I'd ask here before I put this question to the seller.

Here's a link to the listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-king-silver-flair-trumpet-Pre-UMI/154306356346

I look forward to hearing from more experienced eyes. Thank you for looking!

I finally figured this out (embarrasingly) - my topics were sorted, by default, from oldest to newest. That's why I could never see new topics I was posting!

Thank you all for the suggestions and advice. I will definitely check out the Standards of Excellence.

I agree that it's difficult, or perhaps impossible, for a beginner to determine which YouTube posters are posting the best learning methods. A similar problem arises when trying to select a teacher for proper lessons. Everyone will have varying opinions, and therefore a different approach to teaching.

For example, from what I've seen on YouTube, there seem to be some who don't believe that the lips need to produce a buzzing, and that simply blowing air through the horn will work. Of course, I have never even touched a trumpet, so I have no idea what works best, but isn't buzzing the commonly accepted method?

None of my equipment has turned up yet - can't wait to get going!

Thanks a lot for all the replies! So, it looks like a solution will definitely be required. I think the cable ties solution is probably a good one, with the ability to rotate one for removal, although it's damn ugly. Sounds like Olds had a good manufactured solution too.

@richard-iii said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:

Don't ever leave it on the stand when you are not there. Bad things happen. The least of which is the slide moving. Other bad things like it falling over and the second valve slide gets jammed into the valve casing and Mr. Trumpet is not all wonky and unplayable.

I actually have a solution for ths problem! I made my own stand, which I prefer to the basic K&M that I was using. My one uses a smaller footprint, and also weighs about 10lbs, which removes any chance of it falling over. The next step would be to follow up with an acrylic box, to stop dust getting on the instrument. This came about from getting sick of putting the trumpet in and out of its case every 5mins.

The original K&M stand is bolted through the metal, so there is no movement of any kind. I've covered one in a nice soft velvet, even though the trumpet doesn't actually touch the surface when it is on the stand. I might go with different colours for the other stands.

I'm using this video to learn with at the moment:

I decided it was worth getting a visualiser, and working closely on embouchure right from the start. I am sure there are many different approaches, but this one seems good so far.

Flugel Girl advised me to do chemical, rather than ultrasonic for a vintage trumpet, in case there is red rot. Ultrasonic is probably good if there is no risk of red rot.

So, I have managed to find a guy in Birmingham that can do the chemical clean for me. He seems like a nice guy, and he came recommended, so I'll let you all know how it goes.

After much searching, I was only able to find two places in the UK that mentioned chemical cleaning for brass instruments!

@richard-iii said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:

Quote: The next step would be to follow up with an acrylic box, to stop dust getting on the instrument.

And to keep the critters in the house from licking the mouthpiece right after they clean their butts.

I don't know what goes on in your house, but that wouldn't be an issue here

That's the kind of thing I had in mind. Nothing would get in there!

So, what do you do? Return your trumpet to its case at the end of every session?

@dr-go THis is exactly the kind of thing that would be nice to see in a 'recommended' section, to let other users know where the reliable technicians can be found!

I don't know if the forum has the capability, but it would be even better if the recommendations could be pinned to a map, to easily allow forum members to find someone in their area.

I noticed that on this trumpet, the stems of the valves each have the instrument's serial number stamped on them. This is a great touch, because it allowed me to know that they were original.

I now notice that the 3rd valve slide also has the last three digits of the serial stamped on the underside. However, none of the other slides have this. So, I was wondering....does this mean the other slides may not be original? If not, why only stamp the 3rd valve slide, and not the others?

What markings does your Silver Flair have?

I have no idea about this, and only looked at this thread, because I am interested in hunting out an Olds Recording at some point.

With little experience of trumpets, I can only think of the basics. So, we know that if the instrument is flat, there must be too much pipe. Some have suggested that the lead pipe could be too long, but how about one of the slides? Could the tuning slide be the wrong one for this model? I can't imagine that it would have left the factory playing flat. But I suppose the idea of the wrong length lead pipe comes from it having had a new lead pipe fitted at some point right? Is there any evidence of that? New welding for example? I suppose it's possible for a good tech to have fitted a new lead pipe without there being any evidence of the weld. But to my mind, it would be easier to have had someone switch the tuning slides at some point, either by accident, or to replace a damaged slide with one that was cheaper or easier to get.

EDIT: On my 1966 Silver Flair, I noticed that the valves, and even the tuning slide have serial numbers stamped on them, to match the serial on the outer valve housing. Is this something that can be checked? Was it common to have these markings on trumpets of that era?

EDIT: Actually, it's only the 3rd valve slide that has the numbers stamped on mine, not the tuning slide.......interesting.

So, I had my 1966 Silver Flair chemically cleaned, and the results are amazing! Big thank you to Flugelgirl for recommending that I seek out a professional, to have my trumpet chemically cleaned - I'm glad I followed your advice!

The technician that I used was Andrew Clennell, and I couldn't have been happier with the service I received. He's a great guy, and an extremely experienced musician and repairer. I highly recommend his services, if you need any brass instrument cleaned, repaired, or serviced.

www.clennellcustombrass.co.uk

How about an area for recommendations? I was recently looking for someone to do a chemical clean in my area, and it would have been nice to find a list of techs that other forum members had been to, and recommended. Or, not recommended for that matter!

There could be categories....repairs, teachers, brass shops etc

I finally figured this out (embarrasingly) - my topics were sorted, by default, from oldest to newest. That's why I could never see new topics I was posting!

Flugel Girl advised me to do chemical, rather than ultrasonic for a vintage trumpet, in case there is red rot. Ultrasonic is probably good if there is no risk of red rot.

So, I have managed to find a guy in Birmingham that can do the chemical clean for me. He seems like a nice guy, and he came recommended, so I'll let you all know how it goes.

After much searching, I was only able to find two places in the UK that mentioned chemical cleaning for brass instruments!

Ahhhh, that makes a lot of sense! It does seem like a good idea to stop that clanking sound of the slides closing.

I found this, from 1968:

So, it looks like they were sent from the factory with the O-rings in this case.

There isn't much information on this forum about chemical cleaning. After looking through various results on Google, I'm still not sure of the best way to go. I have an old trumpet, with some calcification, and I would like it removed!

So, chemical cleaning is done by submerging a brass instrument in an acid - Phosphoric Acid seems to be the one most places use. I suppose that the skill comes from knowing the correct dilution, and submerging time.

It seems that some people are quite against the idea of putting their beloved instrument into acid, and I must say I understand the hesitation. Is it assured not to affect the lacquer, or to remove part of the metal in places that we cannot see? Or in places we can see, for that matter.

I don't know! And I'm starting this thread to see what other people's experience has been with this process. Has anyone done their own chemical cleaning at home? What did you use? What was the result?

Can anyone recommend a professional to carry out a chemical cleaning in the London/Hertfordshire area?

So, my Silver Flair finally arrived today! I love it!!

The trumpet needs a clean, but with my own mouthpiece, I tried playing a few notes and it sounded great. Note: I'm a beginner, and this is only the second trumpet I have ever seen in real life. So, having only ever played on my Yamaha, I was very much looking forward to experiencing another instrument. My experience was that the notes felt closer together, as if less adjustment was required to change note. Also, going towards the top of the staff seemed to require less effort. I wonder if this an expected result for this trumpet, or just my own experience?

I'm really quite astonished at the condition of both the case and the trumpet, given that it's 55 years old. The hardware on the case basically looks brand new, with both keys included, and both locks working correctly.I scoured the trumpet, looking for damage and was only able to find the tiniest ding in the bell, and a couple of very small scratches. Compression seems to be good too, and the condition of the valves is amazing (pictured in a previous post above). I definitely got a great deal.

@flugelgirl You were right about there being some green calcification on the inside of the slides. The worst of it seems to be on the 2nd valve slide actually. It was quite difficult to photograph, but I did my best:

So, based on this, I think I will follow your recommendation of getting a chemical clean done. Is there any downside to putting chemicals through the instrument?

Also, I noticed that the 1st & 3rd valve slides, both have rubber O-rings on them. Haven't seen this before, so I was wondering if it's correct for this model?

Thanks for everyone's advice and information - hopefully this thread will also be of use to anyone else looking for a Silver Flair in the future.