@dr-go THis is exactly the kind of thing that would be nice to see in a 'recommended' section, to let other users know where the reliable technicians can be found!
I don't know if the forum has the capability, but it would be even better if the recommendations could be pinned to a map, to easily allow forum members to find someone in their area.
I noticed that on this trumpet, the stems of the valves each have the instrument's serial number stamped on them. This is a great touch, because it allowed me to know that they were original.
I now notice that the 3rd valve slide also has the last three digits of the serial stamped on the underside. However, none of the other slides have this. So, I was wondering....does this mean the other slides may not be original? If not, why only stamp the 3rd valve slide, and not the others?
What markings does your Silver Flair have?
I have no idea about this, and only looked at this thread, because I am interested in hunting out an Olds Recording at some point.
With little experience of trumpets, I can only think of the basics. So, we know that if the instrument is flat, there must be too much pipe. Some have suggested that the lead pipe could be too long, but how about one of the slides? Could the tuning slide be the wrong one for this model? I can't imagine that it would have left the factory playing flat. But I suppose the idea of the wrong length lead pipe comes from it having had a new lead pipe fitted at some point right? Is there any evidence of that? New welding for example? I suppose it's possible for a good tech to have fitted a new lead pipe without there being any evidence of the weld. But to my mind, it would be easier to have had someone switch the tuning slides at some point, either by accident, or to replace a damaged slide with one that was cheaper or easier to get.
EDIT: On my 1966 Silver Flair, I noticed that the valves, and even the tuning slide have serial numbers stamped on them, to match the serial on the outer valve housing. Is this something that can be checked? Was it common to have these markings on trumpets of that era?
EDIT: Actually, it's only the 3rd valve slide that has the numbers stamped on mine, not the tuning slide.......interesting.
So, I had my 1966 Silver Flair chemically cleaned, and the results are amazing! Big thank you to Flugelgirl for recommending that I seek out a professional, to have my trumpet chemically cleaned - I'm glad I followed your advice!
The technician that I used was Andrew Clennell, and I couldn't have been happier with the service I received. He's a great guy, and an extremely experienced musician and repairer. I highly recommend his services, if you need any brass instrument cleaned, repaired, or serviced.
How about an area for recommendations? I was recently looking for someone to do a chemical clean in my area, and it would have been nice to find a list of techs that other forum members had been to, and recommended. Or, not recommended for that matter!
There could be categories....repairs, teachers, brass shops etc
I finally figured this out (embarrasingly) - my topics were sorted, by default, from oldest to newest. That's why I could never see new topics I was posting!
Flugel Girl advised me to do chemical, rather than ultrasonic for a vintage trumpet, in case there is red rot. Ultrasonic is probably good if there is no risk of red rot.
So, I have managed to find a guy in Birmingham that can do the chemical clean for me. He seems like a nice guy, and he came recommended, so I'll let you all know how it goes.
After much searching, I was only able to find two places in the UK that mentioned chemical cleaning for brass instruments!
Ahhhh, that makes a lot of sense! It does seem like a good idea to stop that clanking sound of the slides closing.
I found this, from 1968:
So, it looks like they were sent from the factory with the O-rings in this case.
There isn't much information on this forum about chemical cleaning. After looking through various results on Google, I'm still not sure of the best way to go. I have an old trumpet, with some calcification, and I would like it removed!
So, chemical cleaning is done by submerging a brass instrument in an acid - Phosphoric Acid seems to be the one most places use. I suppose that the skill comes from knowing the correct dilution, and submerging time.
It seems that some people are quite against the idea of putting their beloved instrument into acid, and I must say I understand the hesitation. Is it assured not to affect the lacquer, or to remove part of the metal in places that we cannot see? Or in places we can see, for that matter.
I don't know! And I'm starting this thread to see what other people's experience has been with this process. Has anyone done their own chemical cleaning at home? What did you use? What was the result?
Can anyone recommend a professional to carry out a chemical cleaning in the London/Hertfordshire area?
So, my Silver Flair finally arrived today! I love it!! 
The trumpet needs a clean, but with my own mouthpiece, I tried playing a few notes and it sounded great. Note: I'm a beginner, and this is only the second trumpet I have ever seen in real life. 
So, having only ever played on my Yamaha, I was very much looking forward to experiencing another instrument. My experience was that the notes felt closer together, as if less adjustment was required to change note. Also, going towards the top of the staff seemed to require less effort. I wonder if this an expected result for this trumpet, or just my own experience?
I'm really quite astonished at the condition of both the case and the trumpet, given that it's 55 years old. The hardware on the case basically looks brand new, with both keys included, and both locks working correctly.I scoured the trumpet, looking for damage and was only able to find the tiniest ding in the bell, and a couple of very small scratches. Compression seems to be good too, and the condition of the valves is amazing (pictured in a previous post above). I definitely got a great deal.
@flugelgirl You were right about there being some green calcification on the inside of the slides. The worst of it seems to be on the 2nd valve slide actually. It was quite difficult to photograph, but I did my best: 
So, based on this, I think I will follow your recommendation of getting a chemical clean done. Is there any downside to putting chemicals through the instrument?
Also, I noticed that the 1st & 3rd valve slides, both have rubber O-rings on them. Haven't seen this before, so I was wondering if it's correct for this model?
Thanks for everyone's advice and information - hopefully this thread will also be of use to anyone else looking for a Silver Flair in the future.
@flugelgirl Thanks a lot for the tips, the trumpet hasn't arrived yet, but once it gets here I'll check it over, and update the thread.
I'm wondering about the case though. I like the fact that it comes with the original case, which appears to be in good condition. But I can't help feeling as though a used case is the most unhygenic thing ever! I mean the lining has basically been soaked in someone else's saliva for decades. At least an instrument can be fully cleaned and sterilised, but can the lining of a trumpet case even be cleaned?
@georgeb said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
If the valves are worn it can affect the compression, making the horn harder to play. Open the 1st and 3rd valve slides a bit, then close them and depress the first and third keys, If you hear a solid popping sound, the compression is good and you can use either a light or medium grade ( Hetman or Berp ) #1 or #2 oil. But if the pop is weak a thick #3 grade oil should fill the gap between the valve and the piston wall and the playing should be easier and you should hear more of a pop.
The thicker oil lasts longer between oiling.George
This is brilliant - thanks George!
@flugelgirl said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
The difference with a professional cleaning is that we use chemicals after that soap and water bath that help break down calcification that soap and water can’t, followed up by a flushing system to remove all that junk completely. You really don’t want to know what I see flush out of old horns at the end - it’s super nasty! I work on lots of vintage and new horns, and as far as cleaning goes it’s all the same with one exception - don’t clean vintage with ultrasonics. Any possible spots of red rot can open up pinholes in a UC clean, so if I have any suspicions of red rot I do a chemical soak instead.
As far as cork/felt kits go, no need to buy and install yourself if you take it for a clean, as that is generally included in the cost of the cleaning. Also, I don’t know if they are selling stuff that truly fits or not, and you could end up paying as much or more as from the local shops that really need your support right now. If you don’t know reputable places in your area, check with local musicians, college and/or high school band directors. Always good to start a good relationship with your local techs, and they will go above and beyond to help you when you need them!
Thanks for explaining that, I didn't know what was invloved. I do want to make sure the trumpet is thoroughly cleaned, but I quite like doing these things myself. I enjoy the learning process, and there is a certain satisfaction in accomplishing things without having to pay and rely on someone else. Mind you, judging by the valves, I think the trumpet has already been given a professional clean. Here is a photo:
Thanks again for all the quick replies!
@dr-go said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
I think when it comes to valve oil, it's more the preference of the player than it is about the horn. I find that my Ultrapure works equally well on my 1939 Olds Super Recording as it does on my 2017 Harrelson Summit.
Ok, that's interesting. Perhaps I will try a few then. But given that the whole valve section will have to be washed out after each new oil I try, this could take a while!
@flugelgirl said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
@trumpetlearner Proper measurement is needed for felts and water key corks, so better to leave that to your local tech. Especially during these times, I recommend a professional clean on any used horn before you play it - you don’t know where it’s been or what has been living in it!
I will look around for a local specialist, but it's difficult to know whom to trust with something old/rare - plus most places are closed here at the moment. I've been wondering about that 'professional cleaning'. What is it they do that is so different from a good soaking in soapy warm water, and cleaning out with brushes?
@j-jericho said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
@trumpetlearner There's a seller on eBay who sells kits that include felts, corks, and springs. In the notes, it says that if you're not sure if they'll fit your horn, just contact them.
I did see that seller I think - I might contact them. I just thought that as we have access here, to actual Silver Flair owners, that one of them will hopefully be along to advise.
So, I finally got myself an original Silver Flair! It will be a while before it's with me, so I wanted to get a few spares, so that once it arrives, I can give it a thorough clean and service.
I was wondering about waterkey corks. I see that they are avaiable in many different sizes. Does anyone know which size the Silver Flair takes? How about the felts for the valves? Are these a standard size? Does anyone know what colour originally came with this trumpet? I've seen some with black felts and some with red.
And what about valve oil? I expect that my Yamaha regular synthetic oil will be too thin for a 55 year old trumpet. I have seen suggestions for Hetman #1 and Hetman #3 for older trumpets. What do you guys think?
@newell-post said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
@trumpetlearner What program did you use to create that graphic? It's very good.
I use 'SketchUp Make' for that. I've been using it for years to draw little projects. It's free software, easy to use, and there are a lot of tutorial videos on their site, and also at YouTube.
@richard-iii said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
Why wouldn't you put the horn back in the case when you are done playing?
It's just a lot easier to throw it on the stand, that is right next to where I'm sitting. Especially as I am new to the trumpet, I tend to grab for it every 20min to try something.
@richard-iii said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
Quote: The next step would be to follow up with an acrylic box, to stop dust getting on the instrument.
And to keep the critters in the house from licking the mouthpiece right after they clean their butts.
I don't know what goes on in your house, but that wouldn't be an issue here
That's the kind of thing I had in mind. Nothing would get in there!
So, what do you do? Return your trumpet to its case at the end of every session?
Thanks a lot for all the replies! So, it looks like a solution will definitely be required. I think the cable ties solution is probably a good one, with the ability to rotate one for removal, although it's damn ugly. Sounds like Olds had a good manufactured solution too.
@richard-iii said in King Silver Flair - Buying Advice:
Don't ever leave it on the stand when you are not there. Bad things happen. The least of which is the slide moving. Other bad things like it falling over and the second valve slide gets jammed into the valve casing and Mr. Trumpet is not all wonky and unplayable.
I actually have a solution for ths problem! I made my own stand, which I prefer to the basic K&M that I was using. My one uses a smaller footprint, and also weighs about 10lbs, which removes any chance of it falling over. The next step would be to follow up with an acrylic box, to stop dust getting on the instrument. This came about from getting sick of putting the trumpet in and out of its case every 5mins.
The original K&M stand is bolted through the metal, so there is no movement of any kind. I've covered one in a nice soft velvet, even though the trumpet doesn't actually touch the surface when it is on the stand. I might go with different colours for the other stands.
Rather than start a new thread, I have another question for anyone with a Silver Flair. My new Yamaha has a little screw to stop the 3rd valve slide falling out, but I don't see this on the silver flair. Is this a new thing for trumpets? What stops the slide falling out on a trumpet that doesn't have one of these?
When I leave my trumpet on its vertical stand for a few days, I do sometimes come back to find the 3rd valve has slid down to to the screw, and if the screw wasn't there, I suppose it would have fallen out completely!
The Great One! Thanks for keeping his memory alive.
@mike-ansberry Hi Mike,
Which version of Sibelius do you have? If you send me the file I can take a look at it. But I only have version 6, so you might need to save it in a different format if your edition is newer.
Martin