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    Traits that make a great sight reader?

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    • BigDub
      BigDub last edited by

      I claim no expertise in this subject, but maybe a lot of experience and observation. Let’s get that out of the way first.
      First, let me say I am not a particularly good sight reader. I have gotten better through osmosis, maybe because I sit next to people who are, so it elevates me to some degree. It seems to me that some of the great sight readers might have a strong aptitude for math. See the opening remark: it is my observation and experience over the years, not fact or scientific study. They have the numbers and fractions right there in their heads, constantly ticking off like a computer. Easy stuff for them.

      My problem with sight reading, I think, stemmed from my relying too much on my ear. I’d hear it the first time through and know how it went, rhythmically and the tune was in the vault already, so, once again I escaped really having to figure it out on my own.
      So am I way off base or is there some validity to this?

      GETZEN Eterna 900, S.E. Shires C Trumpet, Custom Shires 3c MP, Shires 1 1/2 C MP
      Assorted other mp's not used
      ( not very unusual….right? )

      GeorgeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • M
        Mike Ansberry last edited by

        I believe that sight reading is somewhat connected to the ability to sight sing. If you can't hear it in your head, you are likely to miss the interval.

        That, of course, doesn't take into consideration rhythmic reading.

        Rapier232 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • Dale Proctor
          Dale Proctor last edited by

          I’ve found that lots of experience reading unfamiliar music, the ability to look ahead a few bars while playing, familiarity with common rhythms, having scales under your fingers as second nature, and tunnel vision levels of concentration are very helpful traits for sight reading. As far as left brain vs right brain attributes, I have no idea.

          1977 Bach Strad ML 43 trumpet
          1960 Conn 6B Victor trumpet
          1982 Bach Strad ML 239 C trumpet
          1970 Olds Ambassador Eb/D trumpet
          1993 Bach Strad L 184G cornet
          1962 Conn 9A Victor cornet
          1890 Besson A/Bb/C cornet
          1870? Henry Lehnert SARV cornet

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • Rapier232
            Rapier232 @Mike Ansberry last edited by

            @mike-ansberry
            I can see the note, hear the note, play the note. But only on the trumpet, I can not sing the part. 🤷🏻‍♂️

            Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be).

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • GeorgeB
              GeorgeB @BigDub last edited by

              @bigdub
              My sight reading skills were not so great at the beginning of my comeback at age 79. Those skills were sharper when I was a younger player. I never had trouble reading those songs I was familiar with, just those that were not.
              So I spend a lot of time learning to play new songs. I figure them out by hearing the notes and then singing them if the piece has lyrics.
              The band I play with is always adding new material and that has helped me in sharpening my sight reading ability.

              1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • Dr GO
                Dr GO last edited by

                Two Main Rules:

                1. Sight Read Often

                2. Sing it before you play it, and if you're Rapier, sing it to yourself and all will be fine.

                Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                Harrelson Summit 2017
                Kanstul 1526 2012
                Getzen Power Bore 1961
                Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                Martin Committee 1946
                Olds Super Recording 1940
                Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                Olds Ambassador 1965

                BigDub 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • BigDub
                  BigDub @Dr GO last edited by

                  @dr-go said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                  Two Main Rules:

                  1. Sight Read Often

                  2. Sing it before you play it, and if you're Rapier, sing it to yourself and all will be fine.

                  The point of being able to sight read, in my mind, that you can pick up the piece of music and play it. No preparation, no study, no premeditation. Like picking up a book or newspaper and reading it without ever having seen it before. That’s what I consider a good sight reader. I marvel at a pianist who can read a piece for the first time- and there are many more notes, two staffs, and two clefs to consider as well!
                  I do think my sight reading has come a very long way, mind you. Up until about 8 years ago when I started playing with the community band and basically had all new music all the time, I was not being challenged much. It was in a church setting playing stuff I more or less knew and could play first time without any trouble. It was also not as difficult or intricate.

                  GETZEN Eterna 900, S.E. Shires C Trumpet, Custom Shires 3c MP, Shires 1 1/2 C MP
                  Assorted other mp's not used
                  ( not very unusual….right? )

                  GeorgeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • GeorgeB
                    GeorgeB @BigDub last edited by

                    @bigdub
                    I know what you are saying, Wayne. Back in the days of the big bands you went to an audition and had to play a piece of music you had never seen before, yet play it as if you played it every day of your life. If you couldn't do that back then, you wouldn't last long in the business. So the pros have to be able to sight read flawlessly. I am certainly no pro...😞

                    1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Richard III
                      Richard III last edited by

                      I think it also relates to math ability. Rhythms seem to be a problem for people. It's not the notes, it's the rhythm. People get lost. Also having the beat in the back of your head that allows you to know where in the measure you are is huge. I've been in so many groups where a difficult passage means the player slows down and is immediately lost.

                      And then there is the reading text issue related thing. When you read text, do you look at all the letters? Of course not. You read the sentence. Same thing in music. You read the phrases. You see the whole line. No?

                      Or are you thinking of how to produce the sound and playing and can't spare attention to the music?

                      I think there's something like that going on?

                      Richard III

                      1977 Olds Ambassador Cornet

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • ROWUK
                        ROWUK Veterans & Military Musicians Western Europe Group Monette Club last edited by

                        There are various traits that make for good site reading.

                        1. large collection of memorized patterns
                        2. ability to negotiate the diagonal (end of one line to the beginning of the next)
                        3. ability to “hear” intervals (different than #1)
                        4. well taken care of chops
                        5. an organised approach before playing a note - key signatures and accidentals, natural feel for phrasing/breathing
                        6. a lot of experience site reading
                        administrator 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • J. Jericho
                          J. Jericho Global Moderator last edited by

                          Music is a language. How long did it take for you to become fluent in speaking and reading your native tongue? How long does it take to learn a foreign language? How much concentration, dedication, repetition, and construction does it take to learn any language? These are the keys to learning to effectively and naturally sight read and play/sing music.

                          '62 Olds Studio Trumpet
                          '67 Olds Special Trumpet
                          2013 Dillon Pocket Trumpet
                          '83 Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn
                          1919 York Perfec-Tone Cornet
                          '50 Olds Studio Trombone
                          Shofar

                          "If it was just up to me, I'd only have trumpet players on my show." - Jackie Gleason

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • administrator
                            administrator Global Moderator @ROWUK last edited by

                            @rowuk said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                            There are various traits that make for good site reading.

                            1. large collection of memorized patterns
                            2. ability to negotiate the diagonal (end of one line to the beginning of the next)
                            3. ability to “hear” intervals (different than #1)
                            4. well taken care of chops
                            5. an organised approach before playing a note - key signatures and accidentals, natural feel for phrasing/breathing
                            6. a lot of experience site reading

                            Hearing the intervals is the easy part. Making that instant connection to which note it is is much harder. Hearing harmonic changes is even harder than that.

                            ROWUK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • ROWUK
                              ROWUK Veterans & Military Musicians Western Europe Group Monette Club @administrator last edited by

                              @administrator said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                              Hearing the intervals is the easy part. Making that instant connection to which note it is is much harder. Hearing harmonic changes is even harder than that.

                              I know too many players that site read very well but miss the musical message - even with more time. It is a question of the talent mix.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Dr GO
                                Dr GO last edited by

                                I believe the hardest part of sight reading is being able to count. What really trips me up the most is reading where NOT to play (the rests) more so than were TO play (the notes). It all comes down to the rhythm, the feel of the song. That is what I find most challenging regarding sight reading.

                                Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                                Harrelson Summit 2017
                                Kanstul 1526 2012
                                Getzen Power Bore 1961
                                Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                                Martin Committee 1946
                                Olds Super Recording 1940
                                Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                                Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                                Olds Ambassador 1965

                                BigDub GeorgeB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • BigDub
                                  BigDub @Dr GO last edited by BigDub

                                  @dr-go said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                                  I believe the hardest part of sight reading is being able to count. What really trips me up the most is reading where NOT to play (the rests) more so than were TO play (the notes). It all comes down to the rhythm, the feel of the song. That is what I find most challenging regarding sight reading.

                                  I was thinking the same thing the other day. The rests. Long rests. If only there was some kind of an app for waiting out long rests. A little count down.....one measure to go, 1,2,ready, play, right?
                                  I think for me, it’s laziness. I try my best to find sections of the music, like road signs to get around having to actually count 28 measures.
                                  I celebrate the little “helps” like key changes and time signature changes during the rests. Those are dead giveaways. That’s my goal. I think I work harder at that than I would to just count.

                                  GETZEN Eterna 900, S.E. Shires C Trumpet, Custom Shires 3c MP, Shires 1 1/2 C MP
                                  Assorted other mp's not used
                                  ( not very unusual….right? )

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Dr GO
                                    Dr GO last edited by

                                    Add to the challenge of sight reading that most the parts I get are for C instruments, so in addition to sight reading I am also transposing the notes as I go, and trying to remember to add two sharps to the written key signature.

                                    Allora Pocket Trumpet 2014
                                    Harrelson Summit 2017
                                    Kanstul 1526 2012
                                    Getzen Power Bore 1961
                                    Getzen Eterna 4-Valve Fulgelhorn 1974
                                    Martin Committee 1946
                                    Olds Super Recording 1940
                                    Olds Recording (LA) 1953
                                    Olds Recording (Fullerton) 1967
                                    Olds Ambassador 1965

                                    BigDub Dale Proctor 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • BigDub
                                      BigDub @Dr GO last edited by

                                      @dr-go said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                                      Add to the challenge of sight reading that most the parts I get are for C instruments, so in addition to sight reading I am also transposing the notes as I go, and trying to remember to add two sharps to the written key signature.

                                      Man up. It’s good for your brain.

                                      GETZEN Eterna 900, S.E. Shires C Trumpet, Custom Shires 3c MP, Shires 1 1/2 C MP
                                      Assorted other mp's not used
                                      ( not very unusual….right? )

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Dale Proctor
                                        Dale Proctor @Dr GO last edited by

                                        @dr-go said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                                        Add to the challenge of sight reading that most the parts I get are for C instruments, so in addition to sight reading I am also transposing the notes as I go, and trying to remember to add two sharps to the written key signature.

                                        That’s what C trumpets are for...lol

                                        1977 Bach Strad ML 43 trumpet
                                        1960 Conn 6B Victor trumpet
                                        1982 Bach Strad ML 239 C trumpet
                                        1970 Olds Ambassador Eb/D trumpet
                                        1993 Bach Strad L 184G cornet
                                        1962 Conn 9A Victor cornet
                                        1890 Besson A/Bb/C cornet
                                        1870? Henry Lehnert SARV cornet

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • GeorgeB
                                          GeorgeB @Dr GO last edited by

                                          @dr-go said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                                          I believe the hardest part of sight reading is being able to count. What really trips me up the most is reading where NOT to play (the rests) more so than were TO play (the notes). It all comes down to the rhythm, the feel of the song. That is what I find most challenging regarding sight reading.

                                          I would have to agree with Doc on this part of sight reading, especially the rhythm. I don't realize how wrong I sometime get this in new pieces until I am playing with others. Then it all falls into place.

                                          1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

                                          Richard III 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Richard III
                                            Richard III @GeorgeB last edited by

                                            @georgeb said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                                            @dr-go said in Traits that make a great sight reader?:

                                            I believe the hardest part of sight reading is being able to count. What really trips me up the most is reading where NOT to play (the rests) more so than were TO play (the notes). It all comes down to the rhythm, the feel of the song. That is what I find most challenging regarding sight reading.

                                            I would have to agree with Doc on this part of sight reading, especially the rhythm. I don't realize how wrong I sometime get this in new pieces until I am playing with others. Then it all falls into place.

                                            I've always found sight reading easy. But with difficult rhythms, I still use a pencil to mark downbeats in a measure. I've had band mates try this and they were amazed at how much it helped. I'm surprised at how little people mark their music to help themselves.

                                            Richard III

                                            1977 Olds Ambassador Cornet

                                            GeorgeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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