My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek

_Mark_

First off, I'm a rookie working on building up some muscles in my face and lips and I need to be patient, I know. But when I go down to the bottom end, things get too loose. The mouthpiece oscillates against my lips and my lips do some coarse vibration loosely in the cup and the result sounds like a Dalek, a non compos mentis Dalek. On higher notes at the top of the staff, I press the mouthpiece more tightly against my lips and pull my lips more tightly together and so get a steadier sustained notes. I'd hate to put anyone through listening to me without going through my mute! I'm using an older SB-7.

J. Jericho

Do not press the mouthpiece tightly against your lips! You need to take the time to develop your embouchure in a way that enables you to change pitch without undue pressure. If you rely on pressure to change pitch, you'll screw up your lips, and it will take a long time to undue this incorrect habit.

_Mark_

@j-jericho Thanks. I don't think it's excessive. I can practice for an hour a couple times a day and not feel any pain. I was warned about that from the start and I try to be careful. Not to mention having seen the scars on the lips of all of my 'heroes', like Satchmo, Miles, Chet Baker ...

Dr GO

@_mark_ said in My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek:

@j-jericho Thanks. I don't think it's excessive. I can practice for an hour a couple times a day and not feel any pain. I was warned about that from the start and I try to be careful. Not to mention having seen the scars on the lips of all of my 'heroes', like Satchmo, Miles, Chet Baker ...

Yes, even the best are not immune to doing damage. Freddie Hubbard was out for a bit after splitting his lip.

As for me, I prefer to call my "scars" "wear patterns". I have never injured my lips, but have developed a nice ring callus much like a guitarist develops calluses on their fingers. I have "worn" this much of my life, and it has remained fairly stable for decades.

_Mark_

@dr-go I hadn't realized this was a thing until you said it. Makes sense.

GeorgeB

@dr-go
I got one of those rings, too, Doc.

As far as using pressure, well it would be nice if we could all play with zero pressure, but that is a fallacy. The thing is to use as little of it as possible and still get a good sound.

ROWUK

@_mark_
It is (maybe not) funny, but I have NEVER had a beginner walk away from the first lesson with what you describe.
"Too much" pressure is NOT an issue for the first weeks/months of playing and if your face is capable of forming the letter "M" without nervous twitches, you are only a moderate breath away from a stable first note.
That first note can be practiced with just buzzing the lips, buzzing with the mouthpiece or buzzing with the mouthpiece and horn. We do not need to squeeze the lips together with high pressure, the normal letter "M" is enough for the first open tones - normally open G and low C. Resist the urge to mess around with the valves until your "M"-bouchure is steady.
The trumpet actually only needs a wisp of air to ignite the tone. A LOT of players exercise WAY TOO MUCH EFFORT in basic tone production. Do not try to hyperventilate after reading how much "air" the so called experts pump through the horn. Do not try and form a six pack in your face.
Trumpet playing is thousands of very low impact repetitions. There are no short cuts.
Slow down, find someone who plays reasonably well from a local band or school and get the beginnings in a decent direction.

_Mark_

@rowuk Thank you. Things aren't going as badly as all that. I only got the Dalek sound once or twice when my weak lips go out of control. Actually, I've been reading and taking to heart the guidance and warnings. I'm actually playing good notes in the mid-range, tounging better, and my finger independence has improved more than i thought possible at the start. I can't get above the staff, yet, but I guess facial musculature takes a while to develop.

ROWUK

@_mark_ Then all that is left is to be patient and remember that thousands of low impact repetitions build good habits. Getting in a hurry is pure poison. I have a glass of water near my practice chair. If things get congested (tonguing, breathing, chops, brain), it is amazing how much a sip of water helps.

_Mark_

@rowuk said in My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek:

@_mark_ Then all that is left is to be patient and remember that thousands of low impact repetitions build good habits. Getting in a hurry is pure poison. I have a glass of water near my practice chair. If things get congested (tonguing, breathing, chops, brain), it is amazing how much a sip of water helps.

Thank you! I've had to take breaks as my sinuses react to the pressure and vibration. I've had problematic sinuses all my life. I've started to keep a cup of hot tea on the side stand. I'm not really in a hurry. I understand from guitar how much time and practice is involved. I just get frustrated when, day after day, my lips flub notes at the top of the staff and simply cannot produce any notes above it. I'll hit the 'g' on the top of the staff for an instant, but it will quickly fall apart. I can't hold or sustain it. I'll hang in there, though, because I love the sound, and love how the vibration of the instrument is so closely coupled to one's head. It isn't just sound coming through the air, but physical vibrations in the skull and hands. This physical aspect was the reason I loved loudly amplified guitar--it vibrated the whole body, not just the eardrums.

_Mark_

@_mark_ Thinking on this physical aspect, I envy all those who lived to be in the room with the greats of early days. Recordings just cannot convey the physicality, the powerful acoustic resonance, of being in the room with the instruments, right up there near them. I can only guess at the actual acoustic power of the musicians and bands in the 20s, 30s, 40s, and even the 50s. It must have been fantastic.

GeorgeB

@rowuk said [ If things get congested (tonguing, breathing, chops, brain), it is amazing how much a sip of water helps. ]

That is so true. I get up, sip some water, walk up and down the hall, then go back and face the music and things start working again.

Dr GO

@georgeb said in My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek:

@rowuk said [ If things get congested (tonguing, breathing, chops, brain), it is amazing how much a sip of water helps. ]

That is so true. I get up, sip some water, walk up and down the hall, then go back and face the music and things start working again.

AND I bet you can whistle better as well.

People always underestimate the healing power of water.

Dr GO

@_mark_ said in My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek:

...This physical aspect was the reason I loved loudly amplified guitar--it vibrated the whole body, not just the eardrums.

I get this whole body feeling on the trumpet when playing all the right notes!

Dr GO

@_mark_ said in My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek:

...Recordings just cannot convey the physicality, the powerful acoustic resonance, of being in the room with the instruments, right up there near them....

I have a Hammond B3 with a Leslie Speaker only a keyboards distance away... gotta agree with you on that when I put the peddle to the metal!

AND with my Moog synthesizer at the right settings patched in through a high end bass amp I use connected to my keyboard system... it can actually clean out the sinuses!

_Mark_

@dr-go said in My low notes sound like a gibbering Dalek:

...Recordings just cannot convey the physicality, the powerful acoustic resonance, of being in the room with the instruments, right up there near them....

I have a Hammond B3 with a Leslie Speaker only a keyboards distance away... gotta agree with you on that when I put the peddle to the metal!

I loved Hendrix's use of the Leslie and the emulators like Rotovibe, Dejavibe. Also loved the B3 and the Moogs. Timbre always mattered as much or more to me than quantity of notes.