Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?

tmd

"Decades ago and even today, students are required to play all twelve major scales two octaves."

Is this an actual all-state requirement? It wasn't for me back in the day. Maybe things have changed. We were required to play C# to F scales only one octave for all-state auditions.

"Would life be a little simpler if it wasn't called "High" C?"
Sure. I suppose, it could help with any mental block. But playing is also a physical activity, with physical limitations. FWIW, I think I mostly call that note "C above the staff", not "high C".

Mike

Bob Pixley

@Dr-Mark said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

@Bob-Pixley said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

I was never required to know every scale & arpeggio and be able to play them two octaves. I do know most of them, but can’t reliably play much above a D above the staff.

I was required in the early 1970's in West Virginia, Dr-GO was required while in high school in Ohio, and most All-State requirements says "know all twelve major scales two octaves and arpeggios. Sounds like you have a new mountain to climb. All twelve major scales two octaves with their arpeggios. Now you poopoo an idea because you can't do it? What in the world is wrong with you? No wait! You're the fox in the grape orchard that jumped and jumped and couldn't reach the ripest grapes. Upon realizing he couldn't reach the grapes, the fox said to himself, "oh, the grapes were probably sour anyway"
You can't do what a high school trumpet player is required to know if they try out for All-State. On a side note, why the hell do you even comment if its something you are not interested in? Here's your words; " I don’t really care that I can’t do it." Then why comment unless you wish to be a turd stirrer?

You asked, how many can do it? I replied that I can’t, and I seriously doubt that the majority of trumpet players can. Sounds like you’re a bit stressed, my talented friend. I can still play rings around most high school players, BTW. I’d love to be able to play into the stratosphere, but it ain’t going to happen at this late age. There’s a lot more to playing than scales (which I do practice often) and high notes that many of us never see in a piece of written music.

Shifty

@Dr-Mark said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

On a side note, why the hell do you even comment if its something you are not interested in? Here's your words; " I don’t really care that I can’t do it." Then why comment unless you wish to be a turd stirrer?

So we're not allowed to comment unless it's to say we agree with every point made by Dr Mark?

A Former User

@Shifty said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

So we're not allowed to comment unless it's to say we agree with every point made by Dr Mark?

You're the fox that couldn't get the grapes. Keep jumping princess.

A Former User

@Bob-Pixley said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Sounds like you’re a bit stressed, my talented friend.

Oh my! I'm not stressed and I'm not your friend. I'm real careful who I let be my friend because a friend knows your weaknesses. Keep jumping Mr. Fox.

Kehaulani

@Kujo20 said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Many singers call notes as they are on piano (in terms of octaves).

The lowest note on piano being A0...the next octave being A1, then A2...etc...etc

I don’t see why other instruments couldn’t do the same. That’s about as easy as it can get.

But can you imagine telling a large ensemble of mixed transpositions to "play Middle C". You'd actually get some middle Cs, As, Ds, Es, etc. all at once. Players relate to their own tessitura, not the Grand Staff.

On another note, it's not necessary to play above a High D. I forget who, but one big name player said that the bread&butter range for professionals was below High C. Heck, Chet Baker made an entire career as one of jazz's most influential players, playing basically diatonically (to a given chord) and below high A. I see no need to deride someone for being interested in playing in their most neeed register..

Man, why do some of you guys have to get abrasive, emotional and crude? Is it really that hard to get your points across and be respectful at the same time?

Shifty

@Kehaulani said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Man, why do some of you guys have to get abrasive, emotional and crude? Is it really that hard to get your points across and be respectful at the same time?

Amen.

A Former User

@Kehaulani said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

On another note, it's not necessary to play above a High D. I forget who, but one big name player said that the bread&butter range for professionals was below High C

That would be Doc Severensen who said that and he's right. However, ask if Doc can play his scales up to F above C above the staff. If you're playing Bach or Telemann you need to be fluent in the upper register.

A Former User

@Kehaulani said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

But can you imagine telling a large ensemble of mixed transpositions to "play Middle C".

Its for Bb trumpet. Just darned, I just can't imagine why anyone would get abrasive given the intelligent responses. The idea is to get a discussion going about the stigma of the term "high C" and how that may be a stumbling block for trumpet players

A Former User

@tmd said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Sure. I suppose, it could help with any mental block. But playing is also a physical activity, with physical limitations. FWIW, I think I mostly call that note "C above the staff", not "high C".

Thank you. At least you stayed on topic and didn't chime in just to boohoo the topic

flugelgirl

To pass a Junior Standing audition( a requirement to take Senior level classes) when I was a college music major(Jazz and Contemporary Music Performance) I had to be able to play all maj/min scales two octaves, and also all modal, alt, and dim scales two octaves from memory. I also had to have 8 standards memorized, melody and changes, and perform any the board called. If I glossed over any changes in my improv, they would ask me what the changes were and have me play the corresponding scales. I passed without issue because I practiced a lot and was well prepared. The Navy only asked me to perform two octaves maj/min scales - those auditions were easier except for having to perform so much classical literature. I work on patterns more than scales at this point in my life - being able to put them to use is a lot more valuable than just playing them up and down.

A Former User

@tmd said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Is this an actual all-state requirement? It wasn't for me back in the day. Maybe things have changed. We were required to play C# to F scales only one octave for all-state auditions.

Here's the latest requirement from Central Florida Community Arts for Youth. Placement audition requirements:
Students should prepare two short contrasting excerpts (one fast and one slow) and a 2 or 3-octave scale of the students’ choice for all instruments except bass. Basses will need to play a 2-octave scale.
There will also be sight-reading for all instruments.
I checked some of the schools in other states and some have reduced the requirement of 2 octaves for Bb trumpet.

tmd

@Dr-Mark said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Thank you. At least you stayed on topic and didn't chime in just to boohoo the topic

I'm just trying to contribute, Mark. Let's try to move on from the negativity.

Mike

Kehaulani

This post is deleted!

Kehaulani

Regarding auditions, I have auditioned many times in my life for this and that, as well as having observed and given auditions myself and anything above a High C was optional. It would enhance your chances but not disqualify you otherwise.

Are there auditions that require going up to F above High C? Certainly. But there are tons that do not.

BTW - Enough of this personalized bullying.

tmd

@Kehaulani said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

Regarding auditions, I have auditioned many times in my life for this and that, as well as having observed and given auditions myself and anything above a High C was optional. It would enhance your chances but not disqualify you otherwise.

Are there auditions that require going up to F above High C? Certainly. But there are tons that do not.

Same here. I don't think I've ever had an all-state or college audition that required me to play above a C. That doesn't mean it's not done. But it's just not been my experience. However, I've had pit band auditions where I've been asked to play higher (basically being asked to play the highest passage in the book as part of the audition).

BTW - Enough of this personalized bullying.

Yes!

Mike

Dr GO

You know, other than the two octave scales I was required to do of all scales in High School, an upper register was never a requirement. The auditions I made for all other ensembles I auditioned for (University of Cincinnati College Conservatory of Music Jazz Ensembles-small group combos and big band and Colorado State University Big Band) were to perform required prepared piece an a site reading piece).

What was amazing at the Colorado State University audition was an improve piece where they gave me a chord chart only (no recorded rhythm section back up) and told me to start playing. Again, no range requirement which was interesting, and I came out of that audition as lead trumpet (first chair) in their first band!

Dr GO

Come to think of it, the requirement Colorado State Should have made of me is finding out how high I could play before I passed out! I came to Ft. Collins (over 5,000 ft elevation) from Cincinnati (300 ft elevation). I remembered our first rehearsal for the #1 band starting on a Stan Kenton chart starting with a high E (second E above staff) for 5 bars. I hit the note square on but only remembered three bars, and that was the point I lost consciousness. I took out two bleachers of chairs and stands behind me and fell on both my trumpet that I was holding at the time and my flugelhorn that was behind me.

After about 3 months I had the corpuscles to open back up without fear, until we had a gig at the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park at which time I learned to respect altitude and played a bit more reserved.

Kehaulani

@Dr-GO said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:
What was amazing at the Colorado State University audition was an improve piece where they gave me a chord chart only (no recorded rhythm section back up) and told me to start playing. Again, no range requirement which was interesting, and I came out of that audition as lead trumpet (first chair) in their first band!

Don't you suspect that you used lead-book ranges in your improvisation?

Dr GO

@Kehaulani said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:

@Dr-GO said in Its Been an Age Long Requirement But How Many Can Do It?:
What was amazing at the Colorado State University audition was an improve piece where they gave me a chord chart only (no recorded rhythm section back up) and told me to start playing. Again, no range requirement which was interesting, and I came out of that audition as lead trumpet (first chair) in their first band!

Don't you suspect that you used lead-book ranges in your improvisation?

You know, I still remember that audition fairly well, and I was so floored that I had chords without notes as an audition on changes written by the one of the two judges on the spot (no name, no standard tune recognition) that I was doing everything I could just to concentrate on the chord progressions, placing in patterns and put it in my mind to stay relaxed as possible which I set myself to stay in a real comfortable range.

I do believe the site reading tune went up to a D above high C that was transient, in a phrase that then came down and did not require a lot of stamina. I did hit a real solid and full sounding D so maybe that was what the judges wanted to hear.

I got to admit, one of the judges knew Frank Brown, that I studied under while at UC and he knew Frank worked his trumpet section to be proficient in the high range, so maybe that was my ticket to the lead chair.