Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha

OldSchoolEuph

Well, for once, I disagree with Ivan - not something I recall happening before.

The English vernacular may support such use of "their", but the English language does not. (much like "sketch" in place of dubious or suspect). There exists no neutral gender form in English other than "it", which I think we all agree would be a bit rude. This example of deterioration of the language is particularly objectionable for purists in that it technically amounts to a single-plural conflict as well.

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

The trumpeter produces sound from the trumpet by buzzing his lips.

The statement isn't so wrong as it is sexist. It should be "the" lips, not his lips.

Point well taken. Did not mean to stereotype - but was quoting from the original text - Published by Yamaha.

The wrong behind the comment, again to clarify, is that the sound does not have to be initiated through buzzing. There are other physical methods beyond buzzing to get energize the air molecules. That was the point behind my comment.

HOWEVER, related to Yamaha's interpreted sexist comment by Dr. Mark, stating to have His or her lips buzzing I would believe cover the range... hopefully!

@Trumpetsplus said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

In fact the English language has a wonderful workaround for this: In order to be gender neutral it is permissible to use third person plural for third person singular.
Example:
The trumpeter produces sound from the trumpet by buzzing their lips.
Or even better:
Trumpeters produce sound from the trumpet by buzzing their lips.

Thanks Trumpetsplus!
Its always good to learn. Now I'm gonna go an excite some air. I have a Bach piece that's giving me grief and as the saying goes, "Everyone wants to be a hero but no one want to face the dragon." Time to face the dragon.

Trumpetsplus

@OldSchoolEuph Well it used to work for us. Blame it on Kiwi ingenuity

Kehaulani

@OldSchoolEuph said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

We need fluff. Not everyone wants or needs to be a gearhead. Some just want a 4th grade book report level of understanding . .

That's me. And I'm no dummy. I'm just not interested in the physical minutiae of the trumpet. I'm from the school that puts the most emphasis on "the body follows the mind". No reason others shouldn't be interested in detailed information. There's room for both.

My only skepticism is if so much interest in digging deeper and deeper into the physics is an ignoring of making music. After all, that is the goal of playing trumpet, isn't it?

About the article itself, is it possible this is a translation? In that case, some words or phrases might not come off as intended.

@Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

My only skepticism is if so much interest in digging deeper and deeper into the physics is an ignoring of making music.

I, to a certain extent I have to agree. Sometimes I wonder if a physiology or physics site would be better suited for some such as https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/
or Muscle Physiology from the National Skeletal Muscle Research Center at the University of California, San Diego. These sites would be great for answering trumpet questions from those perspectives. However, if a person wants to talk trumpet minus the jargon, I'm all in.
Otherwise I just don't have the motivation to look up every other word and when a person talks with jargon, its hard to understand let alone evaluate what was said to determine the truthfulness of it.

Dr GO

@Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

@OldSchoolEuph said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

My only skepticism is if so much interest in digging deeper and deeper into the physics is an ignoring of making music. After all, that is the goal of playing trumpet, isn't it?

But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help. I believe Jaguar Brass, Harrelson, Monett would support this perspective, right?

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help. I believe Jaguar Brass, Harrelson, Monett would support this perspective, right?

As long as you're asking them and not most of the people here. Possibly that's a good time to use the Chat function but of course, post publicly what you want . A lot of times when someone goes into physics or physiology and uses the jargon, it comes across as showing off book learning or a desperate need to win an argument instead of a genuine concern for the topic. Also, if a person (most of the people on this site) isn't familiar with the jargon, they can't tell if the jargonesque information is the truth or BS and, for a reader to nod "yes" because they don't want to lose face is what salespeople have used for years to sell us stuff we don't need. Just because there is a Dr. or a PhD or EdD or any of the other titles in front of a person's name is no reason to treat their particular jargon on a trumpet site like gospel. More bottles of snake oil has been sold with the title Dr. on the label than we can count.

Kehaulani

Well spake. I used to think that if you couldn't understand me, that was your problem and showed your lack of education. Not my fault. Why should I stoop to your level? I took an Air Force course for officers in communication. Very eye opening for me.

One of the first things I was taught was to consider your goal. Was it to show how much education you have or to get your listener to do something you need them to do? If you want the listener to understand and follow your instructions then put the words in the same context that the other person uses and will understand.

@Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

. Was it to show how much education you have or to get your listener to do something.

Hi Kehaulani,
You said in a sentence what took me 6 lines of text to say.
Show off!

Shifty

@Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

Well spake. I used to think that if you couldn't understand me, that was your problem and showed your lack of education. Not my fault. Why should I stoop to your level? I took an Air Force course for officers in communication. Very eye opening for me.

One of the first things I was taught was to consider your goal. Was it to show how much education you have or to get your listener to do something you need them to do? If you want the listener to understand and follow your instructions then put the words in the same context that the other person uses and will understand.

I remember punch lines, but often forget the joke/story that leads to it. So I have to make up a story that leads to the punch line. Example (using Kehaulani's Air Force setting):

The Lt was giving a briefing to the old Colonel. The Colonel asked a question and the Lt responded that the answer was pretty technical, so the old fart might not understand it. The Colonel said "Lieutenant, I can understand anything you can explain."

Dr GO

@Kehaulani said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

Well spake. I used to think that if you couldn't understand me, that was your problem and showed your lack of education. Not my fault. Why should I stoop to your level? I took an Air Force course for officers in communication. Very eye opening for me.

One of the first things I was taught was to consider your goal. Was it to show how much education you have or to get your listener to do something you need them to do? If you want the listener to understand and follow your instructions then put the words in the same context that the other person uses and will understand.

Read my line once again Kehaulani, it mentions nothing about training, degrees or asking scientists, it just simply states: But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help. No analytical analysis. No reference to PhD, just recognizing the blood sweat and tears of individuals that put together damn good trumpets. Just a simple statement.

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help. I believe Jaguar Brass, Harrelson, Monett would support this perspective, right?

As long as you're asking them and not most of the people here.

One of them is one of the people here. Have you met TrumpetsPlus Dr. Mark.

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

One of them is one of the people here. Have you met TrumpetsPlus Dr. Mark.

That is true! And when I have a technical question (for example about mouthpiece construction) I send a chat. On a side note, Ivan could have said to himself "to heck with this chat" but has answered my questions every time and was nice about it. I sure can't pay him for what he's worth but I sure am glad I can reach out to someone in a chat that's a heck of a lot smarter than me.
If someone starts talking about trumpet (or some aspect of) using a jargon, I'll suggest that they go to a website (with the same question) and pose the question to people that speak that particular language. Then, bring the answer back in common terms so the rest of us can learn and debate.
We all have our specialties. Its probably a good idea to sh**can our pompous jargon when talking trumpet. There are credentialed instrument technicians, electricians, engineers (electrical, mechanical, chemical, etc.), physicians, nurses, plumbers, pilots, felons, biologists, software professionals, and the list goes on. If a person can only speak in their particular jargon when discussing trumpets, how are they to explain to the members so it can be understood? A good communicator needs to be able to talk with kings and peasants. The difference? jargon.

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

If someone starts talking about trumpet (or some aspect of) using a jargon, I'll suggest that they go to a website (with the same question) and pose the question to people that speak that particular language... Its probably a good idea to sh**can our pompous jargon when talking trumpet... If a person can only speak in their particular jargon, how are they to explain to the common person? A good communicator needs to be able to talk with kings and peasants. The difference? jargon.

I do not understand this line of discussion. What jargon are you referring to as is related to this thread? Can you be more specific so all of us readers interested in learning from this thread be more enlightened by the direction you are taking this discussion.

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

I do not understand this line of discussion. What jargon are you referring to as is related to this thread? Can you be more specific so all of us readers interested in learning from this thread be more enlightened by the direction you are taking this discussion.

Sorry, but I don't think enlightenment is your goal. Time for me to practice.

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help.

What a bold pretentious statement!

Dr GO

@Dr-Mark said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

@Dr-GO said in Structure of the Trumpet by Yamaha:

But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help.

What a bold pretentious statement!

I see you text is bold. Please explain why that statement would taken as such. I really don't understand. It is my honest opinion, it's not meant to be pretentious. Have I offended anyone else here on TB with this statement.

OldSchoolEuph

You gentlemen are making me regret my recent post about frustration.

Kehaulani

"But for those who's goal it is of playing the trumpet well... the physics does help."

I'm not going to hunt this post down, but I don't see the conflict at face value. And yes, it's like one of the few words of advice I ever got from my father - don't get in the middle of a fight lest both participants turn on you

As many forum readers may have deduced by now, I'm much more inclined to go with the intuitive vs. the analytic, but I must've missed something here. I don't see, as long as it doesn't divert one from concentrating on music and how to get there, trumpet-wise, how knowing things about the mechanics or the physics "un-helps" playing it.