Does anybody want to talk trumpet?
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Self-explanatory. Jokes, pretty pictures, etc. No reason why posters wouldn't want to kick back and talk about a variety of things, but I would see that as a diversion, not a primary activity.
This is not to be mean-spirited or judgmental in the least, but just a reason, personally, for how I want to spend my time on the internet. If we can't come up with a greater proportion concerning things trumpet, I'll probably just drop in from time to time to say "hi". (Not that anybody cares,
. )Anybody want to talk about alternate chord changes or phrasing in the Haydn?
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani said in Does anybody want to talk trumpet?:
Self-explanatory. Jokes, pretty pictures, etc. No reason why posters wouldn't want to kick back and talk about a variety of things, but I would see that as a diversion, not a primary activity.
This is not to be mean-spirited or judgmental in the least, but just a reason, personally, for how I want to spend my time on the internet. If we can't come up with a greater proportion concerning things trumpet, I'll probably just drop in from time to time to say "hi". (Not that anybody cares,
. )Anybody want to talk about alternate chord changes or phrasing in the Haydn?
No problem. You just solved it. Start a thread of your own and see where it goes. It’s a wonderful thing.
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But therein lies the rub. I would rather learn learn teach. I enjoyed posts by those who had experience beyond mine from which I could learn or contribute.
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
I can appreciate the question. Back at the old place I started at a time where the web had novelty for me. I had little or no other "social media" on my plate. My level of interest in repeating myself was certainly far different than it is today. Still today, I have essentially no motivation to start that over again. Whether it stays that way, or if something pops up to spark my interest, I simply do not know. Currently the additional time behind the horn reaps fruits - that the Internet does not. Sorry.
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Ok, lets discuss what effect bore size has on a trumpet...
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@Kehaulani said in Does anybody want to talk trumpet?:
Anybody want to talk about alternate chord changes or phrasing in the Haydn?
Alternate chord changes in Haydn?
Would that be Haydn seek?Sorry Kehaulani, I'm GUILTY but just couldn't resist....
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@Bob-Pixley said in Does anybody want to talk trumpet?:
Ok, lets discuss what effect bore size has on a trumpet...
Bore-ing!
See... I did it again!
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As to the question (seriously) on bore sizes. Does it really matter? I mean, when the vibration hits the leadpipe, what effect on sound does bore size really have? Now resistance... that would be impacted. But does resistance in itself effect the sound?
I do believe the backbore length makes more sense as it impacts on the gap and the coordination of the sound wave amplitude as it hits the leadpipe, but not sure how the bore effect would change things, [other the breathe holding effect on influencing the oxygenation of hemoglobin].
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I think the bore size slightly affects the loudness possible with an instrument, since it allows more overall amplitude in the sound wave.
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@Bob-Pixley Yes, but the leadpipe, as important as it is, is only the first part of a whole (excluding mouthpiece). One horn maker may make a larger leadpipe but compensate on the horn's effect further down the line, and vice versa.
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani yes, most all things affect the way a trumpet plays. That's why it pays to play test them if you can. I've bought a few instruments on eBay on reputation only, and most have been good players. Some, though, were disappointing and I eventually sold them after repeated attempts to like them.
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The bore size of a trumpet is pretty much insignificant as a single parameter. There are bright and dark small and large bore trumpets, there are free blowing large and small bore trumpets. The achievable volume is not a function of the bore, rather the efficiency of the working system. We are not listening to an amplified buzz of the lips, rather a resonance (standing wave) in the horn. Due to a mismatch in the length of the horn and the bell shape, a small portion of that resonance “leaks” out. That is what we hear.
It is safe to say that most trumpet building companies do not have a specific sound color that they are building. They may have - by luck, found something that works and is saleable. Contrast this to the high end automobile industry where the sound of an exhaust system, slamming door, road noise leaking into the passenger area are all carefully engineered.
What is the common denominator of Schilke trumpets? I would say manufacturing quality, not a tonal characteristic. Bach is known for their core - something that has not changed or improved for decades. Yamaha on the other hand reinvented the trumpet sound with a Xeno. There is a characteristic tone through the whole range of those trumpets. The better Bachs from many companies also offer no real tonal advantage and those companies building them did not have tone as the goal, rather only sales.
In my world, next to Yamaha is Monette. He is not the Burger King of trumpets, you don’t get it your way. The trumpets have a characteristic sound that is consistent through ALL of the models.
There is plenty of room for innovation. We simply need to start asking the right questions and that starts maybe 50 feet in front of the horn. My first question would be “do trumpets need to be as loud as they are”. I believe that most modern trumpets have a dramatically comprimised tonal palette of colors due to the fact that they were built for louder. The first lawsuits have been won because of the damage that the brass intensity causes in orchestras. Can’t we get that glorious halo around the sound at a lower loudness? Most certainly - but not from companies selling bore size.
Many want simple answers to complex questions. That is normally a sign of something not good ahead. That is how politics work and we all know how that ends up.
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It seems to me that the basic layout of the trumpet has not changed in 130 years, we have the modern piston valve trumpet originated in the1890s I think and refined to the pre WW2 Besson that most modern instruments are based on, and the European rotary design.
R and D and retooling are a very expensive process for a company making a product that they have a market for with no guarantee of acceptance.
Lots of variables to the basic design, light and heavy weight, different leadpipe and bell tapers, straight or stepped bores, no and position of braces, diameter of bellrim etc but all of the common layout.
This is one of the reasons I have put my money up for a Jerome Wiss 6/20 trumpet, he has gone outside the conventional design, I will not have it until later in the year, looking forward to it and will write an extensive report on it.
Regards, Stuart.
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@Kehaulani said in Does anybody want to talk trumpet?:
But therein lies the rub. I would rather learn learn teach. I enjoyed posts by those who had experience beyond mine from which I could learn or contribute.
Being the real deal has it's drawbacks in this regard. I can only offer anecdotal information based on my limited experience. Bore size has already been mentioned as being only one of many factors in how a horn sounds and can be "irrelevant". I can attest to that with the horns I own. My .460 bore Olds Pinto has a flow through valve configuration and it takes adjustment to not wear oneself out quickly. A .468 Super Artist is not nearly so tiring to play and is more like a medium bore. Would a flow through design on a smaller bore, .450, be more efficient and achieve the same results as a bigger horn?
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Kehaulani. My interest in trumpets is somewhat narrow. I like collecting old and often odd, unloved, undesired, and unheralded examples from the past as objects of interest in themselves. I have pretty much stopped collecting and now am off on another tangent exploring old film cameras in my retirement age second childhood. For me it's the mechanism that is the means to an end that's fascinating. I could post about my collection and what interests me about different horns.....if anybody would be interested.
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It gets harder to judge vintage horns when you also have to account for condition. Many don’t realize how leaky their old horn is, which can make it much more difficult to play. Also, many horns both new and old can be affected by the amount of tension in them, or by damage they have had. I get to play a lot of vintage, and also new back to back, and have played good ones and bad of every model. Sometimes you’ll have a badly soldered frankenhorn that plays great, and a highly sought after horn with no real damage that does not play well at all, but normally if pistons are tight there’s much less effort involved.
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@flugelgirl "if pistons are tight" reminds me of one of my trumpet buys. I paid a little over $400 for an Olds Super from photos and a seller that proclaimed total ignorance of condition. When I got it the finish was good. No major dings. All the slides were moving. It came with the original case that was mostly functional although bunged up. The valves moved up and down like a champ. I thought I had found a treasure. Only..... the valves had so much wear the only way you could play the thing was with super dose of valve oil that would fill in the gaps...for a while. When the oil would hit low tide the note range would contract considerably on both ends of the scale.
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@Niner said in Does anybody want to talk trumpet?:
@flugelgirl "if pistons are tight" reminds me of one of my trumpet buys. I paid a little over $400 for an Olds Super from photos and a seller that proclaimed total ignorance of condition. When I got it the finish was good. No major dings. All the slides were moving. It came with the original case that was mostly functional although bunged up. The valves moved up and down like a champ. I thought I had found a treasure. Only..... the valves had so much wear the only way you could play the thing was with super dose of valve oil that would fill in the gaps...for a while. When the oil would hit low tide the note range would contract considerably on both ends of the scale.
Did you modify that stand? I just picked up a similar one.
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I was a bit disappointed with that stand, with a trumpet on each of the folding legs it felt unstable, I filled the fixed leg with lead shot, improved the stability but made it a lot heavier.
A good idea of Niner, I will do something similar to mine. I use one of the posts which I shortened and attached to the bottom of my music stand,
Regards, Stuart.
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I just bought an extra peg and it attaches pretty easy.
