Bach Symphonic Mouthpieces
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Have any of you played one of these? I’m considering either a 3C/24/24 or a 1-1/2C/24/24, but wonder what other players think of them (any size) and what characteristics they have compared to the standard models.
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I have played both. Don't bother with the second option if you're not a pro orchestra player.
You may find a richer sound, but it will cost you more work. May I ask what it is you're trying to achieve?
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@administrator said in Bach Symphonic Mouthpieces:
I have played both. Don't bother with the second option if you're not a pro orchestra player.
You may find a richer sound, but it will cost you more work. May I ask what it is you're trying to achieve?
I can play a stock 1-1/2C just fine, but I’ve read that playing the Symphonic version is quite a bit more demanding.
I’ve always liked a larger throat and more open backbore on cornet mouthpieces and wondered how that setup would work on trumpet. I normally play a Curry 3C. on trumpet, but was thinking I might like to try a 3C with the 24 backbore and larger throat for less resistance and a bit richer sound.
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You might want to try it. The back pressure of a cornet is, of course, different than a trumpet. However, I do prefer the 24/24 combo myself. It takes more air.
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I play a large bore cornet with a Wick mouthpiece, so I have the air part covered...lol. Thanks for the advice.
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I don't think you'll notice much difference. I've played the Curry BC series for years. When I play a little less open mouthpiece for a while and then go back, I still don't notice anything other than the sound change. Even the Flip Oakes Extreme trumpet mouthpiece with a #11 bore doesn't really feel that different.
But then I'm pretty used to open mouthpieces.
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I read in an ITG Journal a while back, that drilling a standard mouthpiece throat is not a good idea because they balance the throat with the backbore at the factory. That being said, I use a custom one-off mouthpiece (Mt. Vernon-style 2C rim / cup, 24 throat, 24 backbore). Give it a shot and have a few friends with keen ears do some blind tests.
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I play a Bach 1 1/2 with 117 backbore on my C trumpet and works great for me, I also have and used a Bach 1 1/2 with 24 backbore on C and it is very good as well. For years I used a Bach 1 1/2 with a 7 backbore for Bb and C trumpet and was really struggling with endurance on it as I started playing less trumpet. I have tried a stock Bach 1 1/2 as well but I think at this point I am used to a bigger backbore.
For Bb the last couple years I started using a ACB MV 3C. It feels very much like a Bach 1 1/2 to me and has a little bigger backbore than stock, just feels a little easier to play than my 1/ 1/2 and sounds great on the Bb imo.Shires ACB
Scodwell Boston
1926 Conn 2B
1950 Bach Strad 38 M
1969 Conn 8B
1982 Bach Strad CL 238
1996 Bach 65GH Vindabona -
I had a Bach 3B for a while and while I really liked the sound, the 7 backbore wore me out. I like the 24 backbore, though. I’ve never really liked a 27 throat on my trumpet mouthpieces, but drilling or reaming them out isn’t a good solution because it tends to make the upper register go flat. That’s why I’m considering a “factory” piece with a 24/24 setup.
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In my world, the 3c is NOT a symphonic mouthpiece, rather something well suited for commercial playing. It has for me a slightly uncomfortable inner rim sharpness. Good flexibility, tone with a fair amount of sizzle.
I played the 1 1/2C for 15 years. Comfortable rim, great articulation, creamy tone equally good with the Bb and C trumpet although mine with the C had the throat drilled out. I ended up switching to a Schilke 18 (15 years)and since 1996 to a Monette 2 series mouthpiece (B2D/C2D). These days, playing the 1.5C makes my tone a lot rougher and upper register flat. -
@rowuk said in Bach Symphonic Mouthpieces:
In my world, the 3c is NOT a symphonic mouthpiece, rather something well suited for commercial playing. It has for me a slightly uncomfortable inner rim sharpness. Good flexibility, tone with a fair amount of sizzle.
I played the 1 1/2C for 15 years. Comfortable rim, great articulation, creamy tone equally good with the Bb and C trumpet although mine with the C had the throat drilled out. I ended up switching to a Schilke 18 (15 years)and since 1996 to a Monette 2 series mouthpiece (B2D/C2D). These days, playing the 1.5C makes my tone a lot rougher and upper register flat.True, the older Bach 3C mouthpieces I’ve owned were pretty shallow when compared to other Bach C cups. That’s part of the question - I wonder if the new Symphonic 3C is anything more than just the same old 3C cup and rim with a different throat and backbore. I have been using a Bach 1-1/2 C for symphonic-type playing for the last few years, and I really like it (other than it feels a bit stuffy) but I’m not too sure I’d like it with a larger throat and more open backbore if it significantly increases the effort required to play it. And yes, when I need more brightness for a piece, I still use a Curry 3C., which I find to have a better sound and easier playability than a Bach 3C.
Maybe I should just forget about it and play what I have...
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Opening the throat does not make the mouthpiece less stuffy. It makes the "targets" or slotting looser - a big advantage for Bach C trumpets with the high third space C, flat 4th space E and sometimes sharp top of staff G.
I have found that "stuffy" generally means that I can't hear myself well. Even with my current setup that is wonderful in churches and concert halls, when I play outdoors with little reflective surfaces, it feels stuffy. Experiments with the 1 1/2C back in the day, had me push the tuning slide in further (making me slightly sharp) and then relaxing more when playing. After a short while, the more relaxed chops resulted in much more open sound and far less embouchure tension - great for more endurance and a better upper register. In addition, articulation got easier where my face muscles were doing less.
I would suggest experimenting with pushing the tuning slide in so that you are maybe 10 cents sharp, and then "lipping" everything slightly down. For me it was like pulling the cork out after a week or two. 10 cents is not much work to compensate and I found it much easier to hear myself with the "new" tone.
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Thanks, my friend. That sounds like solid information. Playing relaxed is the key, for sure, but it helps to be reminded of that. Good breath support and posture make a big difference, too, as I’ve learned over the years.
