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    Posts made by Dr GO

    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @tmd said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      Hi Gary. Yes, I'm familiar with the article. I agree that it's interesting with respect to this one person's hypersensitivity. But it's far from definitive with respect to general cleaning or disinfecting. There was no tissue diagnosis, to confirm cause-and-effect (although I realize there was indirect evidence).
      Mike

      Mike, Here is the link to the more recent article in 2019 chest did demonstrate this with a tissue diagnosis on a similar case:
      d39d53d5-0e09-413f-91f2-f82ccd197e3a-image.png

      c74e6a61-dbcc-432a-af1e-35fa389edc48-image.png

      As for the original article here was the original case descritpion:
      When a 35-year-old professional trombone player came to the Health Center seeking treatment for a chronic cough, the case wasn’t as simple as it first appeared.

      Dr. Mark Metersky, director of the Center for Bronchiectasis Care, quickly learned that the trombonist had been suffering from the recurring cough for approximately 15 years, and prior physicians had not been able to figure out the cause.

      “He didn’t have the typical symptoms that would cause a chronic cough. For instance, he didn’t have a stuffy, runny nose or esophageal reflux problems,” explains Metersky. “Allergy testing was negative, and a physical exam and chest x-ray were all normal.”

      Environmental causes or side effects from medication were also ruled out. More intense scans and exams still did not reveal the reason for the cough.

      But then the musician told Metersky that his symptoms improved significantly when he did not play his trombone for a couple of weeks. He also noted that the periods of more severe symptoms had been when he was playing more than usual.

      Metersky immediately suspected that his patient was suffering from hypersensitivity pneumonitis (HP), a lung condition characterized by shortness of breath and a cough, and that his trombone was the culprit (brass players inhale with the instrument at their mouth between measures).

      An examination of the inside of the instrument showed innumerable whitish plaques, and a further analysis revealed the presence of mold and/or bacteria contamination.

      A few weeks after the musician began immersing his instrument in 91 percent isopropyl alcohol, his cough went away completely.

      The case intrigued Metersky enough that he decided to study several other musicians and their instruments.

      “All seven musicians had at least one instrument contaminated with either mycobacterial or fungal species previously associated with HP,” he says.

      Metersky speculates that since most brass and wind instruments may harbor large numbers of mold and bacteria, many other musicians may be at risk for HP.

      The study is published in the Sept. 7 issue of CHEST, the peer-reviewed journal of the American College of Chest Physicians.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @tmd said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      Hi Gary. Yes, I'm familiar with the article. I agree that it's interesting with respect to this one person's hypersensitivity. But it's far from definitive with respect to general cleaning or disinfecting. There was no tissue diagnosis, to confirm cause-and-effect (although I realize there was indirect evidence).
      Mike

      Mike, a tissue diagnosis was made in a subsequent article in Chest...
      c74e6a61-dbcc-432a-af1e-35fa389edc48-image.png

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO
      Thanks for clarification and advice. I defer to your expertise and accept spores are resistant to ethanol. Regarding single cell organisms, I am told (by other medical authority) ethanol will kill many, such as:
      Pseudomonas aeruginosa
      Serratia marcescens
      E. coli
      Salmonella typhosa
      Staphylococcus aureus
      Streptococcus pyogenes.
      Would you concur?
      If true, then I think I shall continue to use ethanol to inter alia avoid contracting the above. I do give my horn a soap bath and rinse regularly, too.

      • best regards,

      grune, this is one of the articles from the 2010 September Chest article and shows the actual bacteria cultured from brass instruments:

      1dea7315-9af1-4361-b589-1d0d187d4d46-image.png

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @tmd said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
      ...Remove the organic material and wash it away, and you've gotten rid of these organisms more effectively than isopropyl alcohol or ethanol.

      Mike

      Actually Mike there is an N of 1 Evidence-based study that does not support your above cleaning comparison. Look up that September 2010 Chest Article. They have culture and medical evidence that isopropyl eliminates any biological effect of atypical mycobacteria and fungi. They blinded brass a brass player with hypersensitivity pneumonitis to see if the horn was the source, with pulmonary functions and everything. The gave the horn standard treatment (as you describe) and isopropyl cleaned above standard treatment. Patient cured with the isopropyl wash. Many other brass players instruments were then cultured., and post isopropyl treated horns had a significant inhabitant of atypicals and fungi growth. Amazing study.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @Dale-Proctor said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dale-Proctor said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      What about that spray made to disinfect mouthpieces? Label says 70% propanol, plus water and flavoring. Is it harmful? Effective?

      Once again, it will work on most organisms as noted by grune. And for mouthpieces, you really don't have to worry as much regarding maintaining the moist, warm environment that is trapped in the tubing the spore creating organisms of a closed horn system. So it should be fine to use, but I would recommend a rinse with plenty of water if using immediately after spraying. If you let the spray dry, it will be fine.

      Thanks. Yes, the instructions say to let it dry before using the mouthpiece.

      Great. Yeah, drying is key!

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Artist on BOARD

      Wayne, maybe GeorgeB will take the bait and be another one of you happy customers... I know I am!

      posted in Lounge
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
      Check out all the snipes he deleted.

      I'm not going to let this deteriorate into a "he said, she said" bickering. I have nothing else to say. Just leave me alone and I will be more than happy to do the same.

      What in the hell do you think you just did? Again, listen to your own advice. It is right to the point, but when you cannot see it, it goes on... and on... and on... and on...

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @Dale-Proctor said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      What about that spray made to disinfect mouthpieces? Label says 70% propanol, plus water and flavoring. Is it harmful? Effective?

      Once again, it will work on most organisms as noted by grune. And for mouthpieces, you really don't have to worry as much regarding maintaining the moist, warm environment that is trapped in the tubing the spore creating organisms of a closed horn system. So it should be fine to use, but I would recommend a rinse with plenty of water if using immediately after spraying. If you let the spray dry, it will be fine.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @GeorgeB said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Kehaulani said .

      If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

      Oh, man, I'd hate to see that, but I understand what you are saying and fully support it, and I would probably follow suit.
      C'mon, Doc...be nice.

      Check out all the snipes he deleted. I can be nice and have been. I am tying to call out anger before it continues to expand and continues to derail discussion as that is what I am observing in Kehaulani's continued snipes on the majority of my posts over the past week.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'? I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it. "Including brain cells."

      Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.

      Am I going to have to tolerate cheap, off-topic sniping like calling me brain-dead, going forward? This is like a playground bully who just has to have the last word, even though it's not even called for.

      If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap, crude shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

      Listen to you own advise. You have been doing that too me routinely the past week. Read those posts that you haven't deleted, as many of your snipes have been deleted. The proof is evident all throughout you posts attacking me so, take you own advice and Please GET OVER IT so threads can move forward without your continued disruption. I hope you personal situation improves as you are going off the rails. OK.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'? I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it. "Including brain cells."

      Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.

      Am I going to have to tolerate cheap, off-topic sniping like calling me brain-dead, going forward? This is like a playground bully who just has to have the last word, even though it's not even called for.

      If we can't avoid finding opportunities to slip in cheap, crude shots, I may just reconsider my participation in this forum.

      Listen to you own advise. You have been doing that to me routinely the past week. Read those posts that you haven't deleted, as many of your snipes have been deleted. The proof is evident all throughout you posts attacking me so, take you own advice and Please GET OVER IT so threads can move forward without your continued disruption. I hope your personal situation improves as you are going off the rails. OK.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Dr-GO
      Thanks for clarification and advice. I defer to your expertise and accept spores are resistant to ethanol. Regarding single cell organisms, I am told (by other medical authority) ethanol will kill many, such as:
      Pseudomonas aeruginosa
      Serratia marcescens
      E. coli
      Salmonella typhosa
      Staphylococcus aureus
      Streptococcus pyogenes.
      Would you concur?
      If true, then I think I shall continue to use ethanol to inter alia avoid contracting the above. I do give my horn a soap bath and rinse regularly, too.

      • best regards,

      True but these do not make spores. Those making spores are mycobacteria. It is the mycobacteria that cause more interstitial lung disease.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @administrator said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      @Kehaulani said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      I use Everclear. 95% Alcohol. I drink a big swig then play my horn. Kills everything in it.

      Including brain cells.

      Relevant to Kehaulani and his recent posts, that goes without saying.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      Opinions?

      I prefer Ethanol, for a few reasons: not toxic; acts instantly against spores; is hygroscopic; very low cost. I pour about 5ml into the mouthpiece and blow it through the horn, daily at the end of each session. I then leave it in the horn to absorb water off the metal and act as a reservoir for disinfectant. Over-night, the alcohol will have evaporated significantly to a low concentration. Commencing each session, I blow the condensed liquid out of the horn via the water keys, then oil the valves. All is very safe to humans.

      Once again, this has not been medically proven. A clean smell may result but cultures still grow spore related organisms and fungus (2010 September Issue of the journal, Chest)

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      @grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:

      Opinions?

      I found a reference to ‘alcohol’ in a thread about covid:
      https://trumpetboards.com/topic/617/covid-19-closing-down-music-venues/47

      Toxicity. Propanol is more toxic than Ethanol. Additionally, rubbing alcohol will have poisonous additives to ‘denature’ the alcohol. Thus, as a disinfectant for instruments, Propanol should be rinsed away with water, preferably distilled and de-mineralised water.

      Isopropyl alcohol is highly volatile so will not linger past several minutes, however a water rinse will clean away any residual.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Clean with 'alcohol'?

      This actually has been studied in the medical literature. Ethanol does not eliminate difficult to remove organisms (virusus or those causing spores). For virus bleach does work but YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET BLEACH ON BRASS WITH SILVER PLATING. ONLY isolpropyl alcohol at 91% (Woods alcohol at 70% did not do as well) was shown to eliminate resistant organisms.

      posted in Repairs & Modifications
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Covid-19 Closing Down Music Venues

      @administrator said in Covid-19 Closing Down Music Venues:

      I have never poured isopropyl alcohol down my instruments. I bet they'd stink for weeks!

      No odor. Isopropyl alcohol is highly volatile and the odor is gone under a minute. I use a glass container (with a cap) to soak slides and valves for about 15 minutes and then quick pour through the bell and leadpipe tubing and rotate the horn until it drains out the outer end in a collection bucket.

      posted in Lounge
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Covid-19 Closing Down Music Venues

      @administrator said in Covid-19 Closing Down Music Venues:

      I'm not a metallurgist, but I remember learning somewhere in my music school studies that brass does have certain anti-microbial properties.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_copper-alloy_touch_surfaces#:~:text=The surfaces of copper and,a high degree of efficiency.

      Brass does, but not to bacteria that form spores or viruses. Isopropyl alcohol at 91% has been proven (in the medical literature) to eliminate these additional pathogens and recommend to re-use every 1-3 months to maintain control of these pathogens.

      posted in Lounge
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: Memorable Quotations

      @GeorgeB said in Memorable Quotations:

      " All music is folk music. I ain't never heard a horse sing a song - " Louis Armstrong

      Unless it's the Famous Mr. Ed!

      posted in Lounge
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
    • RE: A little humour

      Far Side is Back:
      88a5f3ef-caf9-475f-82de-e5b209bfdfae-image.png

      posted in Lounge
      Dr GO
      Dr GO
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