Posts made by Dr GO

How you use the valve oil depends on 1) the oil you choose 2) tightness of the valves in the casing:

SPEED: The most important quality in a valve oil is its ability to promote speed by reducing friction, but the oil also causes some resistance of its own. This measured resistance is called viscosity. Musicians seeking a "thin" oil are simply looking for a low viscosity oil. Viscosities of different oils are presented in the table below:

VALVE OIL VISCOSITY CHART COMPARISONS:
Products - Viscosity (cSt)
WATER - 1.00
MINERAL SPIRITS - 1.34
CLARK TERRY - 1.83
BENGE - 1.99
BLUE JUICE - 1.99
PLAYERS - 2.15
JUPITER - 2.20
ROCHE-THOMAS - 2.31
HOLTON - 2.38
HYBRID 141-A7 - 3.02
PRO-OIL RED - 3.61
SPACE FILLER II - 3.72
AL CASS - 3.73
PRO-OIL BLUE - 3.80
SPACE FILLER I - 5.10
SLIDE (for trombones) - 5.12
ALISYN - 7.59

ENDURANCE: Represents the oil's ability to maintain a fast and smooth valve action over many hours despite playing conditions. This characteristic is very difficult to develop in an oil without compromising speed because endurance is the end result of a complex series of interrelated properties and conditions: evaporation rate, film strength, surface tension, water solubility, and valve cleanliness.

Evaporation rate:
In most student and mid-line horns, a valve oil that evaporates to < 40% of the original oil remains on the valves will begin to hesitate unpredictably.

For higher end horns (clean and very tight valves), the slowdown is much sooner and sudden seizing of a valve is more common.

Evaporation rate table below, lists the percent of oil remaining on a surface as a function of time at room temperature. This does NOT reflect that a given valve oil will last the number of days shown, but rather the percentage of oil remaining after a given period of time. Unfortunately, as evaporation occurs, the lighter oil content diminishes until only the slow heavy oil remains on the valves. Experiments back in 1976 proved this.

EVAPORATION RATE TABLE
(PERCENT REMAINING VERSUS TIME) Products Vis.(cSt) 19 hrs 48 hrs 72 hrs 96 hrs 120 hrs
WATER 1.00 - 0%
MINERAL SPIRITS 1.34 - 0%
CLARK TERRY 1.83 - 16% - 7% - 6% - 0%
BENGE 1.99 - 35% - 13% - 8% - 5% - 4%
BLUE JUICE 1.99 - 44% - 23% - 17% - 12% - 8%
PLAYERS 2.15 - 44% - 20% - 13% - 8% - 4%
JUPITER 2.20 - 33% - 17% - 15% - 13% - 10%
ROCHE-THOMAS 2.31 - 16% - 13% - 13% - 12% - 11%
HOLTON 2.38 - 25% - 7% - 4% - 0%
HYBRID 141-A7 3.02 - 92% - 75% - 64% - 55% - 46%
PRO-OIL RED 3.61 - 74% - 44% - 33% - 21% - 11%
AL CASS 3.73 - 75% - 48% - 37% - 26% - 16%
PRO-OIL BLUE 3.80 - 77% - 50% - 37% - 25% - 13%
SPACE FILLER I 5.10 - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100%
SLIDE (t-bones) 5.12 - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100%
ALISYN 7.59 - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100%

Endurance also has a factor in the piston as it slides down the valve casing it to rub against the oil film. This movement ruptures the film and allow direct metal/metal contact. In hyper-tight valve assemblies (i.e., Monette and Schilke) oil film rupture is potentially more frequent and disastrous. This is a purely mechanical phenomenon which can only be prevented with an oil having a high film strength. Achieving a high film strength oil within the optimum viscosity range (2.5- 4.0 cSt) is recommended. High film strength gives a smooth, slippery feel when the oil is rubbed rapidly between the fingers. When shaken, an oil with a high film strength will yield bubbles that collapse within 1- 3 seconds. Whereas an oil with poor film strength will tend to entrap air for a much longer time.

Here is what AI says:

When oiling trumpet valves, the key is to use a specialized "valve oil" with a proper viscosity, applying only a few drops on each side of the valve piston, ensuring it coats the moving parts without being excessive, as too much oil can slow down the valve action and attract dirt; it's generally recommended to oil your valves a few times a week or when they feel sluggish, and to always clean the valves regularly to prevent buildup.

So if using artificial oil, it MUST be true.

@J-Jericho said in Oiling trumpet:

I've said this before: I always oil valves before and after playing. Same for Amado water keys. Also, I floss and brush my teeth before playing.

OMG! I have been doing it so wrong all these years! I have been flossing my trumpet and oiling my teeth. No wonder I keep biting my tongue!

For those wanting to join in on the first session in January, the First Sunday Jazz Jam is featuring Cincinnati's premier trumpet player, Mike Wade. I will be there (but has been moved to the 12th due to the snow storm coming through today) as well so bring your axe if you are nearby and get the chance to play with Mike:

Maybe not New Years Eve, but close. If you are in Dayton and looking for a relaxing evening to recover from the New Years Eve Partying, come on by tomorrow evening in Dayton's Historic Arcade!

@barliman2001 said in Calicchio trumpets:

Several reasons come to mind...

1. Many professionals have been contracted as Signature Artists - they get paid (sometimes huge sums) to play on a certain manufacturer's horns, and endorse them. Their personal horns are then crafted to whatever specification they prefer. So it may well be that some professionals are playing Committee clones - we just don't know.

True enough. I had the tremendous honor to play a concert with Allen Vizzutti and during rehearsal in which I played my Committee, Allen came over to me to say he really admired that horn and until coming over to being a Yamaha sponsored musician, was playing the Committee.

Till Bronner and I also had the chance to play together and he too shared his admiration for the Committee. He is also a Yamaha sponsored musician.

@flugler said in Calicchio trumpets:

I have played both Martin Committees and Calicchio trumpets. I don't like the Martins. They got their reputation because I think some famous players played them (like Miles). But I find them dead sounding. I play in big bands, and need to project. They don't..

I somewhat cautiously agree with this but rather then call them dead sounding, perhaps the better term is it can produce a rather subdued quality. For this reason, I play my Committee with my performances with small group ensembles that play more from the Miles song book as well as serving more as back up for a rhythm section or for female vocalists (therefore a more subdued sound). I do and rather choose play all my big band performances with my Harrelson that has quite different projection characteristics than the Committee.

However there was this performer some may have heard of, Dizzy Gillespie, that was known as a big band, high range trumpet player that was more associated with the iconic bent-bell trumpet Committee to enhance its projection; however, he did experiment with Martin Committee trumpets for more than a decade in his career before switching to the King silver flair. Mick Gillette of Tower of Power fame was also known for his lead chop performed with that band on the Committee. So I caution be careful when generalizing. The use of this horn is more related to the ability of the owner. It is an amazingly versatile horn.

@Richard-III said in Martin Committee:

I suppose the good news when spending large amounts of cash for a vintage trumpet is that when you have to have the valves rebuilt, the cost seems less?

Committee valves are amazing. My 1946 had no valve work when I received it in the early 2000s. All pistons without any wear pattern. The action is faster than any of my horns, even my newest, a 2017 Harrelson.

I have played several other Committee. Tom Green (a well known trumpet refurbisher) sends me Committee horns to play and review after he refurbishes them prior to releasing them out on the market. There is not a single vintage Committee he has sent me that 1) required valve work; 2) has had any problems what so ever with valve function. I just reviewed a 1947 Committee for him not too long ago. Another consistently great Martin Committee!

A vintage Martin Committee is a great horn. I know. I own one. It is my favorite of all my horns. Why? Because I play it well and it plays me well... better than any horn I have ever played or owned. Is it worth $7.000? You will only know that answer once you play one.

I lucked out on my horn. I bid for it on e-bay. I offered the first bid at a ridiculous underbid ($2,000). After that bid, it was taken down by the seller. I contacted the seller and they said my starting bid scared them. So I told them I would buy it from the seller straight out, no more bidding for $3,000. The seller said yes. So I became a proud owner of a 1946 Martin Committee, with a serial number 7 away of one the Committees Miles played in the '40s.

So yes, I have a mythical horn but I play it well and it plays me well. Was it worth $3,000? Did I mention it is my favorite horn? Oh yeah, I have a Harrelson Summit, brushed silver bell and 24k gold tuning slides, selling for $12,000 the year it was mailed to me in 2017. My Martin Committee still gives me more pleasure than the Harrelson, so yeah, I bought it for $3,000, but it means more to me than a horn that would cost me $12,000 to replace.

Not sure if that answers your question. But if that 1957 plays the same as my 1946 horn, I would pay $7,000 for that horn.

My choice was to play a big band Christmas church performance with 19 others, playing Stan Kenton Christmas charts...

or

Playing a more traditional Lutheran Church service with just me playing descant Hymnal trumpet parts and an Organist.

Not such a tough choice... do I divide the collection plate with 19 individuals, or just 2?.. Hum!

@barliman2001 said in Christmas stand-in...:

Just got a call from a choir conductor... he needs me as second trumpet in Mozart's Piccolomini Mass on Christmas Day...
modern, well-heated church, playing in the organ loft (civvies permitted)... so all the plans of spending Christmas Day with my mother-in-law went overboard - no turkey for me!

Maybe when you return home, there may still be room in the dog house!

Is that a slide instrument? If so, is it easy to learn?

More specifically, here is Ultra-Pure comment on risk specific to valve oil:

Ultra-Pure Professional Valve Oil is made of synthetic oils and is considered to be safe for its intended use as a lubricant for brass instruments. It is colorless and has no noticeable odor. It is non-flammable, non-combustible, and safe to bring on airplanes with other liquids or to ship by airmail without restrictions. Ultra-Pure Oils products do not react with metals, do not cause corrosion and do not form sticky residues.

Ultra-Pure Professional Valve Oil is not intended for any other use and is not intended for extreme high temperature or other unusual environments. Keep it away from heat, sparks, and flame. It should not be ingested or inhaled deeply into the lungs, and it should not be left within reach of young children.

Skin Contact and Eye Contact:

Mild skin irritation and other discomfort may occur after contact if you have sensitive skin. Wash skin thoroughly with water and mild soap to remove the oil from skin. Avoid eye contact, and if exposed, rinse eyes immediately with plenty of clean running water thoroughly and seek medical help.

Ingestion, Inhalation, and Aspiration Hazard:

If the valve oil is accidentally ingested or inhaled, please DO NOT induce vomiting as it may cause the oil to enter into the lungs. If vomiting occurs, the head should be kept low so that vomit will not enter the lungs. Please seek medical help immediately. See additional cautions below.

Any light oil including valve oils, synthetic or petroleum-based, may be harmful or fatal if inhaled into the lungs as it can cause lung damage and can make it hard to breathe. All valve oil manufacturers are required to put these warnings on the bottles in the USA and in Europe.

Here is the direct link to this reference:
https://www.ultrapureoils.com/post/product-health-safety?srsltid=AfmBOoqMxhp2nnN7YWKnaMH2I-nI12m6oaau0V_rPuxu5NgEOnXJDJax

Any oil has risk, even those sold at vap shops for "pleasure". From the American Lung Association:

Essential Oil Health Claims- Fact or Fiction?
Be cautious about broad health claims about essential oils. Scientific research on the efficacy and safety of essential oils for specific health conditions is limited and more evidence is needed. Some research even shows adverse health outcomes from essential oil use. For example, a 2022 study of 200 individuals demonstrated the negative association between the use of essential oils and cardiopulmonary health. Study participants who inhaled essential oils one hour or more each day had increased heart rate and blood pressure and a decreased lung function rate.

Aromatherapy is one of the oldest and most common uses of essential oils. Much of the research published on the benefits of aromatherapy focuses on the use of a single essential oil. However, in aromatherapy, essential oils are frequently used together. There is limited research on the combinations of essential oils, interactions between the chemicals, impacts on medications and impacts on health. It is well known that when some VOCs are combined, secondary pollutants such as formaldehyde (a known nose, throat, and lung irritant) may be produced.

Though some essential oils, such as tea tree oil, have antimicrobial properties, the benefits are minimal. Research suggests that the antimicrobial effect of essential oils could only be found during the first 30-60 min after the evaporation began. This was especially in the case of tea tree oil and means that continued use or diffusion for the purpose of disinfection is ineffective.

And for the comment to prevent red rot, research as quoted above disproves that theory. I have in the past diagnosed 2 patients, one 18 years old and another 21 years old with pulmonary hypertension and right sided heart failure attributed to vaping.

So I side with Rowuk. No benefit and possible risk. Please do not run valve oil down the lead pipe.

A poem I just found that puts into perspective, Ohio in the winter:

A WINTER POEM

It's winter in OHIO
And the gentle breezes blow
Seventy miles an hour
At five below.
Oh, how I love OHIO
When the snow's up to your butt
You take a breath of winter
And your nose gets frozen shut.
Yes,
The weather here is wonderful
So I guess I'll hang around
I could never leave OHIO
Cuz I'm frozen to the ground!

The Martin Committee Manual in its entirety:

@Anthony-Lenzo said in Oiling your trumpet.:

@Dr-GO wow blowing water through the trumpet to charge the piston ...but why oil in the first valve slide ?

Update: Here is the copy of the portion of the Martin Committee Manual that describes the thorough cleaning of their valves by 1) filling the horn with water to flush the valves; 2) Placing oil down the first valve slide to cleans and improve valve action

I cannot make this stuff up.. This was the recommendation made by a Martin technician back 1946 when this manual was included with the originally purchased horn.

One more: On Sunday when I was practicing with "A Fine Romance", I started improving a solo and found that "I Saw Momma Kissing Santa Clause" not only works but works so well, that I am wondering if the person writing "I Saw Momma Kissing Santa Clause" actually adapted this from the Kerns classic!

Seriously, use this YouTube recording of "A Fine Romance"

then sing the lyrics of "I Saw Momma..." So you bet I am using this for gigs!

I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus
Underneath the mistletoe last night
She didn't see me creep
Down the stairs to have a peep
She thought that I was tucked up
In my bedroom, fast asleep

Then I saw Mommy tickle Santa Claus
Underneath his beard so snowy white
Oh, what a laugh it would have been
If daddy had only seen
Mommy kissing Santa Claus last night

Another: Miles Davis "All Blues" adapted to "Jingle Bells" This one I could find on YouTube so I cannot take credit for this blended tune:

So several years ago I found that the Brazilian Standard "Triste" closely follows the form of "I'll Be Home for Christmas". Some embellishment in the bridge, but for the most part it works. So I call out at Christmas time for during gigs and have the ensemble play Triste and watch them (and the audience) become mesmerized when I start playing "I'll Be Home for Christmas" during the repeat through the head. Kinda like giving the room an unexpected Christmas present.

CAN ANYONE SHARE (AND LETS COMPILE) SONGS THAT WE CAN USE ON GIGS DURING THE CHRISTMAS SEASON