@ROWUK said in Playing risks in Covid-time:
...Fact is, if everyone simply practices good hygiene, distancing and wears a mask whenever possible, we could be well on our way to recovery...
And at the present time, this is the ONLY intervention we have at this time to prevent the spread. Sadly, there are many here in the USA that when not mandated by Government, does not follow this advice. That is why the US has had such an augmented rise in the past month.
@Kehaulani said in Playing risks in Covid-time:
"The government", in this case, are the highly experienced, infectious disease medical experts the President, himself, selected.
I don't think the President selected Fauci. I believe he was already in the position as the Director of the National Science Foundation Allergy and Infections Disease Division. The President can only elect to listen or not to listen to Dr. Fauci's advice.
Got a call from the coroner that a family was out shopping and came home to find there mother dead in the chicken coop with chickens running all over her body. Coroner said it sounded like natural causes and I replied, not so sure of that as to me it sounded like fowl play.
@IrishTrumpeter said in Hello! Welcome to TB, who are you?:
...I am married with 3 kids & a very patient wife who became a flutist on the same day
..
Hmmm and who is the patient one?
@GeorgeB said in Well, old age has finally caught up with me:
@ButchA said
Hey, Doc, I can only hope and pray that you and your wife will stay safe and healthy.
GeorgeB thanks so much, and the same prayers go out to you so that your heart rhythm will be playing only the best of times!
@WildWilly said in Hello! Welcome to TB, who are you?:
Returning to the trumpet after a 65 year layoff. Played the trumpet when Ike was in the White House. For me, it's not like riding a bike. After one month I can play a mean Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.
After 65 years for me I play Tinkle Tinkle which explains my current relationship with my urologist. Welcome to TB were we say it as it is.
@ButchA said in Well, old age has finally caught up with me:
I haven't been active on this forum as much as I used to... I just read through this posting and hope and pray that you'll be okay and can get back into playing. There is no such thing as "age catching up". I always joke around with age numbers to take away any worry. If you are 83, then always think that you are 38 and you can still do everything you did at 38! On the other hand, I am 59, so in that case you just add the two numbers... 5+9=14. Okay, so I could be a 14 year old kid, playing trumpet in middle school!
I hope everyone is doing well during this crazy COVID-19 stuff. I haven't been driving my school bus since this all happened, back in March! Everything is shutdown. The Shriners Band is shutdown, the annual Oktoberfest is already canceled, etc...
George, I just wish you the best and hope you can regain your health!
Stay safe, everyone!
Butch... sounds like particularly tough times for you as well. May you be well for sure!
What is scary for me as I am sending more and more patients in for Covid testing. Until a couple weeks ago about 3 a week, in the past couple weeks that has increased to 3 a day. I can really feel the rise in Ohio daily cases. My wife is a nurse at our largest hospital and they went from one dedicated Covid floor two weeks ago to now 3 floors two weeks ago. She has 3x been pulled from her MedSurg floor to float to the Covid floors. Fortunately there are no plenty of equipment for her to wear, but her anxiety level is way up lately.
@Kehaulani said in Opinions on Valve Oils?:
@Dr-GO said in Opinions on Valve Oils?:
The video above is for a compulsive cleaning. With weekly oiling, I skip all but the wipe down of the pistons. That I always do, and will also clear away all of the biofilm on the rim of the valve bore.Seems to me that the OP is a novice so thorough orientation might be in order.
On rethinking this post, I agree, a baseline video on how to do a through cleaning should be helpful. We should never assume the level of experience of an individual posting. Kehaulani, you have the best interest of others in your heart, that is for sure.
@SSmith1226 said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
As far as modern, scientifically documented data, there are literally numerous peer reviewed studies, for example showing that soap and water, is far more effective than alcohol based hand sanitizers for prevention of Clostridium Difficile infections in a hospital or office setting.
Hand washing with soap and water is significantly more effective at removing C. difficile spores from the hands of volunteers than are ABHRs. Residual spores are readily transferred by a handshake after use of ABHR.
Thanks for understanding.
I could not agree more on this subject. Because of C. Diff... soap is all I use going in and out of all rooms. AND lest one forget, the soap wash must be done for at least 20 seconds (the time it takes to sing "Mary has a little lamb"). This I taught to all of my medical students before I took them into the Neonatal Unit to teach them how to perform the Newborn exam.
@djeffers78 said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
The moonshine I drink will certainly clean whatever out.
If its greater than 50% according to the CDC, it should! By the way, I have REALLY lucked on to an amazing drink of 1 oz Apple Pie Moonshine; 1 oz Cinnamon Moonshine; 3 oz Ginger ale. Its called an Apple Slice, and it is truly pleasing to the Apple Core!
This is a response one of my posts discussing a medical concern received by ROWUK: "...must have something to do with keeping your post count high... I know that you consider yourself to be a top expert on many things..." This got me to thinking, that in all the medical advice I do post on this site, what is my credibility behind such advice. So I thought it was time to use this thread to reassure readers of my qualifications at posting medical and performance advice relating to embouchure and lung use. Unlike ROWUK suggests as my consideration as to my credibility, as anyone claiming they are an expert should, as suggested by ROWUK be viewed with some apprehension. So I will only acknowledge how others have viewed my credibility in medical knowledge:
First and foremost, I am honored to be certified by the American Board of Internal Medicine as an internist, and by the American Board of Pediatrics as a pediatrician. Going beyond those certifications, both Boards have honored me to serve on their Educational Committees to design training requirements for internists and pediatricians, for which I was equally honored to being voted as serving as the President of their Residency Associations. Through that relationship, I was then honored to have a National Award named after me, the Gary M. Onady Award, that is a financial stipend provided to the resident recognized as top leader in internal medicine and pediatrics. In addition, the American Board of Pediatrics invited me to publish the 5 part educational series in there Continuing Medical Education Publication, Pediatrics in Review, on how to use the best medical evidence in decision making.
The professional societies for internal medicine (American College of Physicians) and pediatrics (American Academy of Pediatrics) have both honored my expertise as a clinician and scientist by placing me by invitation to serve as a current Associate Editor for the Annals of Internal Medicine, ACP Journal Club and as a past Editorial Board Member of American Academy of Pediatrics Grand Rounds. In addition my work has been recognized by the American College of Physicians in presenting an international curriculum I created with another internist on "Jazz Improvisation in Improving Patient-Physician communication" that is a method used training physicians how to better communicate with patients.
As to my expertise in recommending embouchure techniques, involving muscle physiology, I have been honored in my work of promoting the understanding of muscle physiology by the American Association of Medical Colleges in publishing modules in the MedEd PORTAL training program used by every medical school in this country. I have also been awarded by the AAMC for several years as being that organizations outstanding reviewer of modules submitted by other authors.
As to my expertise in pulmonary function, I have been honored by the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation in the promotion of my success in promoting the increased life expectancy of their patients, by serving for a decade on their Center Committee in accrediting 125 centers across this country. This experience with traveling through many cities has also afforded me the opportunity to meet many TrumpetBoard members, that include Vulgano Brother, tmd and several others (as well as past TrumpetMasters members). The CF Foundation has additionally honored me by making me their lead author for the section of medical management of one of their Clinical Practice Guidelines. That assignment lead me to be recruited by the Cochrane Collaborative to being one of their Guidline publications that is held as an International Standard.
So I hope people reading my medical advise will appreciate that it comes from a knowledge base that has been recognized and honored by others, rather than just my opinion of my qualifications. And by the way, my post count is high based on wanting to share a lot of this knowledge with our members... hopefully to improve their lives and performance potential, much in the way ROWUK has enhanced mine through his expertise.
@SSmith1226 said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
@grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
Sorry to add to this since I just arrived to the discussion. This is not meant in any way as aggression, just clarification of your conclusions. Isopropyl Alcohol, also known as propran-2 ol, propranolol2, Rubbing Alcohol, etc, is not effective against spores.
https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html
The only mention of isopropyl alcohol on my reading of the CDC site states: Isopropyl alcohol (20%) is effective in killing the cysts of Acanthamoeba culbertsoni (560) as are chlorhexidine, hydrogen peroxide, and thimerosal .
AND while Ethanol is very effective at myobacterium in just 15 seconds, 70% isopropyl is effective at 5 minutes: In tests of the effect of ethyl alcohol against M. tuberculosis, 95% ethanol killed the tubercle bacilli in sputum or water suspension within 15 seconds 492. In 1964, Spaulding stated that alcohols were the germicide of choice for tuberculocidal activity, and they should be the standard by which all other tuberculocides are compared. For example, he compared the tuberculocidal activity of iodophor (450 ppm), a substituted phenol (3%), and isopropanol (70%/volume) using the mucin-loop test (106 M. tuberculosis per loop) and determined the contact times needed for complete destruction were 120–180 minutes, 45–60 minutes, and 5 minutes, respectively.
But more relevent to the conversation is how these alcohols perform physiologically on immunoactive disease. To date there is only one study I can find that publishes patient response (as people log on to this site, not petre dishes), only isopropyl alcohol has been clinically demonstrated to reverse hypersensitive immunological lung disease.
Dr. Smith, if you know of a clinical study involving patients, please post them here so we can share this knowledge, but as a physician I am sure you know, that studies reported in the lab, cannot be directly applied to how it effects patients in clinical use. These types of results need to be presented in clinical studies as was my reference above.
@grune said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
oh my,,, I expected discussion, not aggression. A pity: a reflection upon our times now?
Some excellent points are made, for which I am thankful. I see I should have self-reflected a moment to specify the thread, as one person notes; true, my focus is upon disinfecting; not general cleaning per se. My apologies.
No need to apologize, grune, as those of us without anger in our hearts could truly understand the intent of your question within the text of your post and I am proud of all the people that heard your call to provide a creative and educational discussion. You created a very nice thread and enough information was provided to allow any reader to make a solid personal decision as how aggressive one needs to protect themselves from an immune response (yours truly included) through extra care of their horn.
@ROWUK said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
...why do you respond with "how in the hell [Dr GO] did you get...". Do you ever look in the mirror (figuratively)... shitty presentations [ROWUK] does reduce the urge to even bother to get involved to about zero.
Guess I leaned from the best. Apparently we use the same mirror (figuratively). And I mean that, have the most respect for you and always will.
By the way, my post count is high because I have a lot of time between patients, just to set the record straight.
@ROWUK said in Clean with 'alcohol'?:
I have been watching this thread for a while and was not sure that I even wanted to get involved... And here is my bitch with this thread - we have all the expert opinions but have ignored the fact that alcohol is NOT a cleaning agent of choice for the home.
So here is my bitch with your bitch ROWUK... how in the hell did you get the idea this was a discussion about using alcohol as a cleaning agent? The posts above are discussing alcohol as a disinfectant:
grune: I prefer Ethanol ...a reservoir for disinfectant. ORIGINAL POST WITH TOPIC MATTER CLEARLY STATED
Dr. GO: ...Ethanol does not eliminate difficult to remove organisms... ONLY isopropyl alcohol at 91% ... was shown to eliminate resistant organisms.
grune: Regarding single cell organisms... ethanol will kill many...
Dale Procter: What about that spray made to disinfect mouthpieces?
Dr. GO: Once again, it will work on most organisms as noted by grune.
tmd: Remove the organic material and wash it away, and you've gotten rid of these organisms more effectively than isopropyl alcohol or ethanol.
Dr. GO: Many other brass players instruments were then cultured., and post isopropyl treated horns had a significant inhabitant of atypicals and fungi growth.
So get the bitch out of your soul ROWUK and understand this is NOT a thread about cleaning, but about disinfecting. This is important and I want to make sure others see the discussion in this context. Why?
Do most people need to use a disinfectant on their horns? My answer: NO
Who needs to use disinfectant? My answer: Those individuals that have hyper-immune response to allergens
OTHERWISE a simple cleaning will do just fine....
Bitching!
I don't see an argument here. My understanding of the OP's intention was how to address biological organisms collecting in brass instruments, not so much in cleaning a trumpet. I also agree from the perspective of tmd that reducing the burden the increases the colonies of biological species is equally important. To this I totally agree. My discussion primarily centers around the point that to date only one type of alcohol has demonstrated that isopropyl alcohol is successful in protecting a clean trumpet from additional complications of immune sensitivity reactions to musicians at risk. Does ethanol do the same? It might, but that has yet been proven.
Argument? I see the posts focused on this topic enlightening from the perspective of all contributors that have focused on this topic. Am I missing something?
