Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces

Dirk020

On the former TrumpetMaster forum was a very nice post from Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces; the article was a very handy tool for trumpeters who might go for a mouthpiece safari

Did anyone made a copy of that article? Would be nice ànd very useful to share it here

Shifty

@Dirk020 said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces

From the oTHer forum. Is this the one?

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23
:41:49 EDT
From: JLindem96@aol.com
Subject: [TPIN] Jens Lindemann mouthpiece

I have received many e-mails from TPIN members who were at the ITG conference asking the classic "what-mouthpiece-do-you-use" question. I thought I would take this opportunity to give you my personal theory on mouthpieces.

I believe that far too many trumpet players use mouthpieces that are basically too big. IMHO, going larger than a Bach 3C or the Yamaha/Schilke equivalent 14c4 or smaller than a Bach 7C or Yamaha/Schilke 11 should be considered 'specialized' equipment.

We seem to have no shortage of trumpet players out there who would say that very small mouthpieces are considered 'cheaters'. Have you ever seen a Bill Chase mouthpiece? It is about as small as you can possibly get and it served him very well for the type of playing he did. Could he have done that on a larger mouthpiece? Of course, but specialized lead players are artists in their own right. Those who do it for a living are very cognizant of what they are hired to do in the most efficient manner possible so that they can continue to do it for as long possible!

True lead players are also extremely rare. Think about how many people in your own community would be considered monster lead players...specifically the so-called 'screech' players. You would probably come up with a relatively small number in any given city. I can also virtually guarantee you that those inviduals play on more 'specialized' equipment that probably falls out of a standard industry medium. In my opinion, you should only mess around with their type of equipment if you were interested in the type of air velocity that they themselves use for their specific job. Remember though that everything comes with a price. Extremely small, shallow mouthpieces simply do not resonate that well in a section. They may have good 'cutting' projection but try playing softly with a good attack...very risky. Of course, if you never have to play softly with a good sound then you should consider yourself a true specialist...go for it!

By the same token, the great orchestral players use equipment that would hover around a Bach 1 1/2 or 1C or the Yamaha/Schilke equivalent 16-18C4. These individuals should also be considered 'specialists' because they are. Playing in an orchestra requires the ability to blend first and foremost and occasionally lead the entire brass section. But even then, the best players are simply riding on top of overtones being laid down by the rest of the section. They are not trying to 'cut' through in the way that commercial trumpet players might want to sizzle over a big band or rock group.

I just finished playing with the Summit Brass this week. Allen Vizzutti, Allan Dean and David Hickman were also in the trumpet section. Playing with them was AMAZINGLY easy because everyone blended and played in tune and everyone occasionally had the opportunity to lead the section and lay down a style that the others would follow. When the section is in tune and balanced, it is very simple to play for long periods of time without feeling true fatigue.

It is my understanding that the great Bud Herseth began his career on something like a Bach 7C and only switched to a larger mouthpiece (Bach 1X...made for him) after his car accident so that there was greater sensation in his nerve-damaged lips. Obviously, Bud Herseth is one of the greatest orchestral players ever but his own switch to a large mouthpiece (largest ever at the time) was based on an extreme situation for a highly specialized job. However, since most classical players wanted to sound like him, many made the same switch without thinking of the potential ramifications. Specifically, working too hard to find the sweet spot...more on that later. Bud Herseth is one the most efficient players of all time and he was efficient on a Bach 7C for a long period.

Thus, the point of my ramble (I think I'm jet-lagged). EFFICIENCY!!! After starting on a Bach 7C like many of you out there, I graduated to bigger equipment...all the way to a Bach 1 1/4, 24 throat, Schmidt backbore. I love stats...it clears the room of everyone except trumpet players. So, now that we are alone, I can tell you about my realization. Unless I wanted to be Bill Chase, there was little point in playing through a pin hole. By the same token, it also seemed reasonably logical that unless I was recovering from nerve damage and needed to feel more of my lips so that I could play for Fritz Reiner in Chicago, I probably wouldn't need a 1X either.

Allen Vizzutti and I have discussed this often over the years and the simple fact is this, in order to play efficently you must be in the sweet spot of a mouthpiece. A large mouthpiece has a bigger sweet spot and, as with oversized tennis racquets and golf clubs, it helps compensate for our very human ability to miss the centre of the note more often than not. To accomplish the same goal on a smaller mouthpiece you MUST be more efficient or it will back up on you. I describe backing up as basically trying to overpower the sweet spot.

Currently, I am playing a GR mouthpiece which Gary Radtke made especially for me. This will be available very soon (complete with my website on it...the benefits of customization!). For years before that, my own equipment was made for me by a mouthpiece maker in Japan who worked for Yamaha. I don't know the exact dimensions but they are somewhere between a Bach 5-7 C or a Yamaha/Schilke 11. Never measured the throat or the backbore and I didn't really care because it basically got me to where I needed to be. I could pretty much do everything I needed to do in any register I needed to play in with that mouthpiece. Could it have been a more perfect mouthpiece? Of course! Will I obsess about trying to find an elusive solution? Of course not! The answer is fluid anyway due to the fact that my body, lips, dental structure, and vital capacity will always be changing naturally due to the aging process that everyone of us is undergoing as I write this. Now, if your thing happens to be the quest for the perfect mouthpiece, then at least be honest with yourself, it is the chase that you are into and not the solution.

The bottom line is this (again, IMHO) the name of the game is efficiency and flexibility and the best solution for an all-around game is middle of the road equipment coupled with focused, intelligent practise. Have fun experimenting but don't let it be the answer to your problems!

Jens Lindemann
www.trumpetsolo.com

pss

I believe it's the same one still available on TH (it's an e-mail) - at least it looks like it when compared to a cached article from TM, but I don't know if that's the one you're referring to.
Search "Jens Lindemann moutpieces trumpetmaster" on Google and on the green url below the link to TM click on the green arrow to the right to get the cached version.
Hope this helps.

pss

Well, @Shifty already did it.

administrator

Thanks @Shifty. If anybody knows Mr. Lindemann personally, please tell him we would love to have his thoughts on TB!

Shifty

@administrator said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

Thanks @Shifty. If anybody knows Mr. Lindemann personally, please tell him we would love to have his thoughts on TB!

I don't know him personally, but I used the contact form on his website to invite him to join us. Fingers crossed.

Dirk020

Nice! Thank you for sharing mr. Shifty

Kehaulani

Did you google "jens lindemann mouthpiece rant" ?

Shifty

@Kehaulani said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

Did you google "jens lindemann mouthpiece rant" ?

Just a Google of "lindemann mouthpieces" brings up the text on several websites, plus videos of Jens discussing the same issues.

BigDub

@Shifty said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

@Kehaulani said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

Did you google "jens lindemann mouthpiece rant" ?

Just a Google of "lindemann mouthpieces" brings up the text on several websites, plus videos of Jens discussing the same issues.

You may be shifty, but somehow I feel I can trust you.

Dr GO

And do you really trust the ones' you love. This is what that kind of trust can get you:

grune

@Shifty
Lindermann gives a well-reasoned explanation. But, I happen to disagree with his premise; "the name of the game is efficiency and flexibility". To me, the name of the game is "sound": tone and dynamics. The choice of a mouthpiece should be based upon the desired sound. If you want the orchestral sound, you have no choice other than a larger mouthpiece: the issue is simple physics. If such sound is not the priority, then other factors take priority, in which case the norm is to use a smaller mouthpiece. The basic compromise is sound versus all other aspects: eg. if a small m/p is chosen for ease of range, the teutonic sound will be compromised.

I agree with his point; too many people are using too large a mouthpiece when they have not the chops for the large size; yet resulting in a lack of sound. So, these people sacrifice all aspects, and would be best advised to down-size in favour of improved technique.

administrator

I play a modern copy of a Mt. Vernon Bach 2C. I really enjoy it as an all-around good mouthpiece, and it can blend well in most classical-type settings. For anything else, I have a 3C. I agree with Jens; most people play something far too massive. Anything with "1" in its name is a specialist mouthpiece, IMO. Or, anything smaller than a 7C is also a specialist mouthpiece.

Tobylou8

I play what is comfortable and I've learned to blend. No one asks what I play, just how well I do.

Dr GO

@Shifty said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

Extremely small, shallow mouthpieces simply do not resonate that well in a section. They may have good 'cutting' projection but try playing softly with a good attack...very risky. Of course, if you never have to play softly with a good sound then you should consider yourself a true specialist...go for it!

I had thought this to be true at one time. I noticed this "characteristic" with my Jettone Studio B.

HOWEVER: Fast forward to 2017 with the innovative 5 mm system created by Jason Harrelson. He made an EXACT copy of the Studio B rim and cup, but combined this with a novel throat that TOTALLY blends the cutting effect with the smooth air flow I have when playing softly and quietly on my VPS Summit. IN FACT, of all the horns I currently own, I can play the softest with the most control of pitch and sound quality on this 5 mm Jettone copy.

What Jens leaves out, is the characteristics of the backside of the mouthpiece can add so much to the performance. The 5 mm concept allows you to adjust for this.

Tobylou8

@Dr-GO said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

@Shifty said in Jens Lindemann about mouthpieces:

Extremely small, shallow mouthpieces simply do not resonate that well in a section. They may have good 'cutting' projection but try playing softly with a good attack...very risky. Of course, if you never have to play softly with a good sound then you should consider yourself a true specialist...go for it!

I had thought this to be true at one time. I noticed this "characteristic" with my Jettone Studio B.

HOWEVER: Fast forward to 2017 with the innovative 5 mm system created by Jason Harrelson. He made an EXACT copy of the Studio B rim and cup, but combined this with a novel throat that TOTALLY blends the cutting effect with the smooth air flow I have when playing softly and quietly on my VPS Summit. IN FACT, of all the horns I currently own, I can play the softest with the most control of pitch and sound quality on this 5 mm Jettone copy.

What Jens leaves out, is the characteristics of the backside of the mouthpiece can add so much to the performance. The 5 mm concept allows you to adjust for this.

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JorgePD

When I started playing again (about 16 months ago after a 40 year hiatus) I spent time researching mouthpieces online looking for the “best” mouthpiece to start my comeback with. Lindermann’s post was one of many I read. I learned a lot about mouthpieces and came to the conclusion that mouthpiece choice was largely dependent on personal variables and goals.

My comeback mouthpiece safari led me to try a Yamaha 14B4, a Curry 3C., a Claude Gordon Personal (CGP) and a Conn 4, in that order. Size wise I don’t think any of these mouthpieces would be considered “specialized” equipment.

The 14B4 and the 3C. worked well for me (played each for serval months). The CGP produced a tone I liked, but it severely impacted my endurance, so after 2 weeks I decided not invest any more time on it. The very day (fate?) I decided to stop using the CGP I was organizing my garage and found the Conn 4, which was my first mouthpiece, and I decided to try it.

Playing the Conn 4 was like finding an old friend. It’s comfortable and easy to play. It also provides better endurance than the other mouthpieces, which is really important to me because of limited practice time. The only drawback is that I prefer the tone produced on the other 3 mouthpieces, but I’m willing to sacrifice a little on tone for the other benefits the Conn 4 provides, so I’m going to stick with it for the foreseeable future.

Bob Pixley

After playing a 3C for years, I've recently discovered I can play pretty well on a Bach 1-1/2C, and I like my tone much better with it, too. My overall intonation is a little better with it, and soft attacks are easier and more secure. It's slightly more tiring to play than the 3C, but I can deal with that. Been using it for a couple months now and still like it for most playing, so I think I'm past the honeymoon phase.