The Icon and the Upstart: On Miles Davis’s Legendary Feud With Wynton Marsalis

[SSmith1226]

A very interesting story concerning an unwelcome interaction between Wynton Marsalis and Miles Davis:
https://lithub.com/the-icon-and-the-upstart-on-miles-daviss-legendary-feud-with-wynton-marsalis/

[J. Jericho]

So they got together like oil and water....

[Trumpetb]

I am not surprised at all at Miles reaction to Wynton appearing at his elbow uninvited.

In my opinion Wyntons head was way up his ass to do such a thing.

Is there no such thing as respect between musicians.

[ROWUK]

@Trumpetb
Wynton is INFINITELY more sociable than Miles ever was. I think that the feud was totally unnecessary and the result of a huge chip on Miles shoulder.
Miles was one of the greatest influences on the trumpet world and he knew it. There was no room for his ego and another trumpeter in the same room much less the same stage.
To be honest, I prefer ignoring the extensive moronic side of Miles and focus ONLY on his iconic playing. I use those same skills when watching TV these days.

[Dr GO]

I side with Rowuk on this one. If you have not had the chance, read Miles' autobiography (actually written by a biographer). His personality comes out with considerable coldness and anger at times. He did tend to have a chip on his shoulder.

One additional story from the Wynton reflection was when Miles' band was suppose to play "warm up" to the Steve Miller band. Miles had no respect for Steve Miller and instead of just not taking the warm up gig, he purposefully never showed for the "warm up" spot but showed up AFTER Steve Miller played to come off as the featured player.

Miles had feuds with many musicians that come out in his autobiography. To read it, though, provides a great insight into understanding Miles. The autobiography does discuss the Wynton incident.

[Dr GO]

There is a story (not from the autobiography) but rather came from an article written by Eddie Henderson. Eddie (well before he became a jazz icon) was a very accomplished classical performer in his youth. Eddie's father managed the Cotton Club in San Francisco and would have performers stay with the family at there home when coming to the club to play. One particular guest was Miles.

Miles took Eddie to one of his performances, and on their way back with Miles driving (a yellow Ferrari), Eddie wearing his classical hat, began criticizing Miles' performance. As Eddie writes, Miles immediately slammed the breaks on the Ferrari, exclaimed "What the F**k do you know about trumpet playing" and kicked Eddie out of the car to walk his way back home.

[Dr GO]

Interesting that in reading the link above, I read this excerpt "the trumpeter Wallace Roney, Miles’s friend and only certified protégé .... was in the audience that [of the feud] night... brings to memory another story.

A band mate of mine with the Eddie Brookshire Quintet, included in his PhD thesis from Ohio State on the African American Music Experience of a particular incident involving Miles. In this entry, my band mate describes a concert, in Miles' later years, where he was so feeble, that he used Wallace Roney (evidenced on video) to patch into the PA under the bleachers of an arena, to dub in for Miles at one of his concerts.

[Trumpetb]

I think there are two issues and the two issues are being conflated.

One is the unsociability of Miles and his unwillingness to deal respectfully with others.

The other is the unsociability of musicians who butt into performances and disrupt the performance.

There is no excuse for a musician to unexpectedly go on stage mid performance and spoil a performance.

I have had to deal with this many times. Mid phrase a musician suddenly starts playing his instrument and the performance is ruined.

I have dealt with it like Miles did, end the music and tell him to sod off.

In some cases the audience cat called the intruder and told him they loved me and he had spoiled their enjoyment.

Would Thelonious Monk have allowed another pianist to climb on stage and sit at his piano uninvited mid performance. No he would not.

Would the Boston Philharmonic allow a hic with a violin to get on stage and play with them during a performance of Mahlers Fifth. No they would not.

Just 2 days ago during a performance a hip hop musician decided to jump in and disrupt my performance which was going great, he disrupted it made it sound pathetic and then demanded that I play the piece faster.

This is ridiculous.

Wynton was being ridiculous.

If Miles had invited Wynton to play on stage with him there would be no issue, but mid performance to hog the stage when Miles had a performance, had a planned set and the audience had paid to hear Miles and not Wynton, is quire wrong and bordering on abusive.

Are you really telling me that any performer anywhere is fair game to have you mount the stage and start playing with them unrehearsed when they never asked you up.

I have been invited up many times and performed with the band when I did, that was cool and it always went great. But I have also been told by audience members to mount the stage during someone elses act who had not asked me up.

I was not part of the act so I had no business being on stage.

I would never do such a thing.

Or am I reading this right, you guys would have seen nothing wrong with walking up to Doc Severinsen during the Tonight show and trying to play uninvited and unexpected. The floor manager would have you thrown out of the studio. I would have you banned for it.

I respect you guys but be honest, how many performances have you guys really barged in on.

You dont know what they will play next, you have not rehearsed with them, you were not expected to perform, the audience dont want or expect you. A performance can go south real fast.

Wynton was being nasty and objectionable and Miles was having none of it.

[Dr GO]

I had only one incident in my 50+ years where an individual showed up with horn in tow in the audience at an out of town gig we played monthly in Pittsburg at a club called as Little E's. I did not want it to be awkward, especially since my band played nearly all original tunes which would make it difficult for anyone to sit in. However, during one of the tunes, the band went off into an extensive improve, I took that opportunity to invited the individual to the take stage to play. It was a creative way to solve what could have been a difficult situation. My band was a bit miffed with me bringing him up, but the tension was relieved by my inviting him up.

At the time, I did not know that individual with the horn, but he would eventually be well know to me (and many others here on TB) as Dr. Mark. As some people here on TB may recall, that relationship went down into an aka Wynton/Miles downward spiral.

[Dr GO]

@J-Jericho said in The Icon and the Upstart: On Miles Davis’s Legendary Feud With Wynton Marsalis:

So they got together like oil and water....

And Miles and Wynton kept moving on as a result... This also works well in medicine... Keeps the crap moving forward... aka mineral oil and MiraLax.

[administrator]

Goes to show that you don't have to like EVERYBODY if you have massive talent.