Favorite Music
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The horrors of Gallipoli and its aftermath were vividly portrayed in the composition and outstanding performance. Although the composition is by a contemporary Scottish Composer and Lyricist, Eric Bogle, this the first “protest song”I heard concerning WW I. It’s effectiveness caused me to research why Australians were at war with Turkey.
In 1915, when this military campaign started, “ANZAC” troops were part of the British Empire. One out of six participating Australian and New Zealand Army Corp Troops were killed in Winston Churchill’s losing campaign many thousands of miles from their homes, in Turkey. As a result, the independence of Australia and New Zealand from the British Empire was solidified. Also ANZAC Day was born. On the other side, the Ottoman Empire eventually transitioned to the Independent Republic or Turkey founded by Ataturk and others who were among the victorious Turkish Military Leaders. Ataturk was also known for his role in the Armenian Genocide by the Turks.
It would be interesting to hear what our Australian members think of the song and performance, as well as their perspective on the history.
For additional insight, the following video is helpful, especially starting at 5:30. -
@ssmith1226 All very true. As much as I wish to, I shall refrain from adding comments about wars, to respect the TB rules banning politics. What is war if not politics? Well, you seem to agree the song and performance by Lay, with his magnificent voice, is indeed moving, so I believe I have made my points about the performance, message, politics. I believe truly, were the world ruled by musicians, we would not have wars.
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@grune said in Favorite Music:
@ssmith1226 All very true. As much as I wish to, I shall refrain from adding comments about wars, to respect the TB rules banning politics. What is war if not politics? Well, you seem to agree the song and performance by Lay, with his magnificent voice, is indeed moving, so I believe I have made my points about the performance, message, politics. I believe truly, were the world ruled by musicians, we would not have wars.
I don't think war history is necessarily "politics." Certainly, that played a role. I doubt anybody would be offended by what you have to say about WWI, though.
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I believe war is more about economics than it is about politics.
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That version of The Band played Waltzing Matilda is the most moving I have heard, growing up in country Australia I knew several WW1 returned men, it was very hard to get them to talk about the war, they chose to try to forget what they went through.
One did tell me that he had been a prisoner of the Germans, they were treated well and when the war ended the guards opened the gates and left, they were frightened to leave thinking it might be a trap.
I think that war touched all of my generation in some way, my wife's aunt was due to get married to a theological student when he was conscripted into the army as a stretcher bearer, he was killed on the western front 6th November 1918 5 days before the war ended.
Regards, Stuart.
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@dr-go uh, then why did America invade Korea and Vietnam? Korea was not a combatant in WW2, and Vietnam never threatened USA in any way, and neither had much economic value to the USA.
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@stumac agree. As I say, Lay has reproduced the era in his music, very remarkably well. Who else today has that voice? It is not so hard to imagine oneself in a local pub, beer in hand, standing around the piano with comrades, singing the chorus to Pack Up Your Troubles.
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@grune said in Favorite Music:
@dr-go uh, then why did America invade Korea and Vietnam? Korea was not a combatant in WW2, and Vietnam never threatened USA in any way, and neither had much economic value to the USA.
Now THERE's a long story!
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@grune said in Favorite Music:
@dr-go uh, then why did America invade Korea and Vietnam? Korea was not a combatant in WW2, and Vietnam never threatened USA in any way, and neither had much economic value to the USA.
The global wars has for the most part been about economics. The little ones, perhaps not so much, at least on the surface. Curb siding Communism has been at play in the ones you reference... but isn't Communism a government based on economic theory? So we come full circle, right?
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Anybody want to talk music?
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@dr-go
Well, not exactly. WW1 and WW2 were fought because of greed. Economics is more than greed. Greed results in imperialism, which, when of sufficient scale, can dictate the terms of an economics system. When not constrained by imperialists, economics is a natural function of human interactions. Communism per se is not a government, nor is it based upon economics: it is a theory, much like Capitalism is a theory. If you are American, undoubtedly you have not been educated in the true goals of Marx's theory, and your knowledge comes from the incessant propaganda bombarded upon you, resulting in belief, not knowledge. You may be surprised to learn Marx did not advocate the destruction of capital nor of capitalism. What you call communism is that form of government invented by Lenin, not by Marx, and later expanded by Stalin. This form of government had very little to do with the Manifesto of the Communist Party, as Lenin was a Bolshevik. You may be further surprised to learn the Bolsheviks were not ethnic Russians. -
@kehaulani said in Favorite Music:
Anybody want to talk music?
The music was about politics, and our perspectives were called out by the OP ...It would be interesting to hear what our Australian members think of the song and performance, as well as their perspective on the history.
so I believe the discussion is relevant. Anybody want to talk about the OP's request?
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@grune said in Favorite Music:
@dr-go
Well, not exactly. WW1 and WW2 were fought because of greed. Economics is more than greed. ... If you are American, undoubtedly you have not been educated in the true goals ofI learned that the US entered war with Germany over tariff disputes. That is economy. I learned it at the University of Cincinnati in a 300 level political science course for which I received an A+... as a chemistry major no less. So how the hell do you get off on disputing my education as an American?
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@grune said in Favorite Music:
@dr-go
If you are American, undoubtedly you have not been educated in the true goals of Marx's theory.. You may be surprised to learn Marx did not advocate the destruction of capital nor of capitalism...Not at all, once again, I will hold up my political science education over yours any day. Marx's theory was truly ahead of it's time, and as you said and it is true is was the bastardizaiton of his theory by the politburo that took the theory to the wrong place. So once again, don't you dare come after me insulting my education. You assume too much, and in so doing you are reflecting you own ignorance,
By the way, Groucho was my favorite Marx brother anyway!
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Getting back on subject...
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@dr-go Your comment, "isn't Communism a government based on economic theory", indicates a lack of comprehension and an assumption. But true, my comment indicates an assumption of your knowledge, also. My comment was not intended as an insult, which you have taken as such, so apologies are in order. Now, as for reasons why the USA entered WW2, I opine the main reason was to seize the opportunity to usurp the British Empire and take over as the global hegemon. Prior to entry, American capitalists funded both sides. So yes, I will agree with your premise Americans fought the war primarily for economic reasons.
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Getting back on subject...
