Mouthpiece too large?

grune

re locked sticky; Jens & Mouthpieces Sticky (Your MPC is TOO BIG!)

Overall, I agree with Jens' premise. But I have seen also too many people use too small a mouthpiece.

I think we need to distinguish between students and fully mature 'pros'.

From age 7 to 20, a student will undergo massive changes, and thus many changes in mouthpieces and horns should be expected during the formative years. For students, the key is to provide proper guidance in the choice of hardware: as poor or mismatched can seriously impair progress. I have yet to find a golden rule for students, but I am finding my students are developing faster when they use a D-cup rather than a C-cup. By the age of 16 and after 5 years of development, most students do very well with a 3D.

But as a standard for a 'pro', I disagree about the 3C being the ubiquitous size. For me, at the pro level, the issue is sound. True, a 3C can give a well-balanced result for tone, range, flexibility. But a 3C will not give the same tone as a 1.5C: if it does, the issue is the player. In my case, a 1.5C definitely gives a bigger, fuller, sweeter, greater dynamics than a 3C. With a 1.5C, I have no trouble to fill a concert hall with a 'teutonic' sound. I think pros should strive for 'the sound', and this means working hard to develop the chops needed to perform on a mouthpiece larger than a 3C. imho, the 1.5C is the pro standard to achieve, with larger being a matter of individual strength.

opinions?

Dale Proctor

I agree - the Bach 1-1/2C lends itself to producing a much nicer overall sound than the Bach 3C. In my experience, the 1-1/2C isn’t significantly more demanding to play than the 3C, either. I was surprised to discover that when I bought the 1-1/2C. The cup doesn’t really feel any wider than the 3C, but is a bit deeper. Disclaimer...your mileage may vary...lol

Seth of Lagos

It's all a compromise.

If you've a lot of serious above staff forte+ stuff to deal with in a normal performance, you pick the piece to best survive the gig and keep the conductor off your back.

If you haven't, you amuse yourself by scaring the 'bones with a Wick 1.

flugelgirl

We’re all different. I sound the same on a 1.5 as on a 3, but have to work a whole lot harder for it. That makes it an easy choice for me. Also, you have to consider the job that you’re doing - playing in a commercial setting has different needs than an orchestral setting. Different equipment for different jobs, and different faces! This is one of the many reasons I did not want to live in the orchestral world where people are so focused on one specific horn/mouthpiece combination for no real reason other than “insert famous player here” used it. When I was growing up, there were several choices of teachers I could have studied with - the orchestral teacher would not accept you in his studio unless you bought a large bore Bach and a 1C mouthpiece. The jazz and commercial teachers didn’t care what equipment you showed up with as long as it worked and you sounded good on it. That made the choice easy for me as a kid since I couldn’t afford new equipment! It ended up being a great choice since I excelled in the genre and loved the music.
For all the amateurs out there, play what is most comfortable for you and work with it. Strive for your best possible sound, and don’t worry about it too much. Tailor your equipment around the job that YOU are doing, and it will take you farther than playing what works for someone else’s job.

grune

@flugelgirl
Much truth to your words. I could write a story... but suffice to say... in olden days I had to 'qualify' and audition to have the 'honour' to be a student of a certain orch trumpeter, which meant I had to have a Bach horn and 3C as minimum gear and be able to afford rather exorbitant fees. Then to get into the orch (I was chosen from 1000 world applicants), I had to have a silver, Bach C trumpet, again with 3C as the minimum. These days, I see a great variety of horns and colours, so things seem to have improved for orch members.
.... which leads to another question....
with so many excellent horns and brands these days, are we living in a golden age?

Dale Proctor

@grune said in Mouthpiece too large?:

.... which leads to another question....
with so many excellent horns and brands these days, are we living in a golden age?

I suppose I’m still living in the past with a silver Bb Strad and a silver C Strad...lol. I did break the mold a bit with a very fancy lacquered Bach 184 cornet, though.

Newell Post

@grune Yes, we are living in a golden age. I love the vintage horns, but the modern ones are more consistent and more reliable. You also have many more choices today in terms of materials, geometry, and many other variables. And trumpets are cheap compared to many other instruments. When you can buy a slightly used top of the line, professional trumpet for about $1,500, that's a golden age. If you really want to spend $10K on a trumpet, you can. But you don't need to.

grune

@Newell-Post ... to your points... so true. Compared to prices of many violins, trumpets are 'disposables'. Even 'student' level violins can be +$100k. crazy.

https://tarisio.com/auctions/notable-sales/lady-blunt-stradivarius-of-1721/

Dr GO

@grune said in Mouthpiece too large?:

@flugelgirl

with so many excellent horns and brands these days, are we living in a golden age?

Not so sure as the Martin Committees, Olds Super Recordings of 1930's vintage were of golden age quality. Was the 30's and 40's that start of the golden age?

administrator

@grune said in Mouthpiece too large?:

@Newell-Post ... to your points... so true. Compared to prices of many violins, trumpets are 'disposables'. Even 'student' level violins can be +$100k. crazy.

https://tarisio.com/auctions/notable-sales/lady-blunt-stradivarius-of-1721/

Can't Monettes cost $30k+? I mean, that's not $100k, granted, but it is, at the end of the day, a brass pipe.

Dr GO

@administrator said in Mouthpiece too large?:

Can't Monettes cost $30k+? I mean, that's not $100k, granted, but it is, at the end of the day, a brass pipe.

But a very purdy brass pipe!

Dr GO

My Harrelson Brass Pipe is now selling for around $14,000:

Vulgano Brother

@Dr-GO said in Mouthpiece too large?:

My Harrelson Brass Pipe is now selling for around $14,000:

People will pay you that much not to play? Guess I should have become a jazz musician!

Newell Post

@administrator The Monette costs about $10K. The artsy-fartsy decoration accounts for the rest.

Dr GO

@Newell-Post said in Mouthpiece too large?:

@administrator The Monette costs about $10K. The artsy-fartsy decoration accounts for the rest.

Then such a deal I got. The artsy-fartsy note with serpent in the tuning slide on my Harrelson only cost me $300! But what was really cool is Jason used my design.... Come to think of it, he has used that insert for horns after making mine. Perhaps I should be getting design royalties?

Kehaulani

@Vulgano-Brother said in Mouthpiece too large?:
People will pay you that much not to play? Guess I should have become a jazz musician!

He's a doctor who plays jazz.

Dale Proctor

And another thread jumps the shark...

Kehaulani

On my recording of Pictures at an Exhibition with some fearless solo work by Bud Herseth as done on a 7C. His sound sounds big enough to me.

If you want to refer to "pros" it would be nice to know what you mean. I knew scads of pros who used, by your definition, small mouthpieces. I got a back-up mouthpiece from Ray Triscari that was like a drilled out dime.

GeorgeB

@Dr-GO
That is one gorgeous horn, Doc.

Kehaulani

@GeorgeB said in Mouthpiece too large?:
That is one gorgeous horn, Doc.

I think it's gaudy bling. Goes to show you how differing tastes can be.

There was a Filipino family that lived a few houses down from me that re-painted their house. Purple. Looked beautiful to them.