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    Opinions on Valve Oils?

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    • Seth of Lagos
      Seth of Lagos @flugelgirl last edited by

      @flugelgirl said in Opinions on Valve Oils?:

      ... Many synthetics will react badly when mixed with other synthetics or petroleum products - I have had customers return instruments only to find out they mixed two brands of valve oil and there are beads of goo in all the pistons - really annoying, especially when the customer has caused damage I have to fix when they cannot get the pistons out!

      Of course, I accept your observations without reservation. However, I don't keep a diary of which instruments I've lubricated with which oil and it could be any of a dozen or so. So over my 50+ year playing career I must have mixed all types of oil in all permutations. And yet I've never observed any of these adverse reactions between different oil types. Could it simply be a case of poor hygiene/maintenance routine? That would make both of our life experiences consistent.

      flugelgirl 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Kehaulani
        Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

        @flugelgirl.
        So (and not being flippant) for the lazy you recommend Berp valve oil?
        Which weight? I have all from new to one year old horns. Schilke, Getzen, Yamaha.
        Thanks, Kehaulani.

        Benge 3X
        Martin Committee
        Getzen Capri Cornet
        Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

        "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
        Charlie Parker

        "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
        Chet Baker

        flugelgirl 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • ?
          A Former User @Seth of Lagos last edited by A Former User

          My valve oil of choice is Latromba valve oil #1formula or Monster valve oil #1 formula.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • oldpete
            oldpete last edited by

            I use: Al Cass, Blue Juice...I used straight kerosene while in college. Dad had a service station with a kerosene pump.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • tmd
              tmd @flugelgirl last edited by

              @flugelgirl said in Opinions on Valve Oils?:

              I find most of the synthetics to leave a lot of residue over time ....

              Do you believe this is because synthetic oils have more additives?

              Mike

              Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
              Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
              Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.

              flugelgirl 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • neal085
                neal085 @flugelgirl last edited by

                @flugelgirl I'm not familiar with horn repair, but in the firearms industry it is common for customers to completely gum up the inner workings of a mechanism with incorrect cleaning products, or by mixing products, or just general poor maintenance.

                It is also common for customers to then pretend like the problem was caused by something other than their maintenance habits.

                On the trumpet oil, I've used both Ultra Pure and Monster in recent history, and have had good luck with both. I typically wipe out the valve block completely before applying oil.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • flugelgirl
                  flugelgirl Qualified Repair Techs Veterans & Military Musicians @Seth of Lagos last edited by

                  @Seth-of-Lagos Some of this might be poor hygiene, but like I said, I’ve seen it in brand new instruments as well. As I also said, there’s nothing wrong with using synthetics, but they do work better when horns are kept clean and do not sit for months at a time.

                  Daily players: Adams A1, A4LT, F2 flugel , CN1 cornet.
                  Schagerl Raweni
                  Puje 3am(named for me), Benge pocket
                  Schilke P5-4, C5L
                  Yamaha 761 Eb/D
                  Lots of vintage toys

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • flugelgirl
                    flugelgirl Qualified Repair Techs Veterans & Military Musicians @tmd last edited by

                    @tmd No idea, maybe. Just what I’ve observed from horns I’ve worked on, from brand new to very used.

                    Daily players: Adams A1, A4LT, F2 flugel , CN1 cornet.
                    Schagerl Raweni
                    Puje 3am(named for me), Benge pocket
                    Schilke P5-4, C5L
                    Yamaha 761 Eb/D
                    Lots of vintage toys

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • flugelgirl
                      flugelgirl Qualified Repair Techs Veterans & Military Musicians @Kehaulani last edited by flugelgirl

                      @Kehaulani Berp is great for lazy maintenance, and for horns that spend time in storage. I find less residue in my own horns before cleaning, and though I clean more than most people do, my cleanings on my personal horns are not getting the strictly scheduled maintenance they did before I became a tech. Sometimes after a day of cleaning horns from grandma’s attic, I’d rather spend my time playing than cleaning my own.😜
                      As far as which formula, it depends on the age and condition of the horn. #1 works great on newer horns, #2 on those with minor wear, and #3 with heavy wear. #8 heavy rotor is great for 1st and 3rd slides. For synthetics users, a heavy rotor oil works great to keep 1st/3rd slides moving as well.

                      Daily players: Adams A1, A4LT, F2 flugel , CN1 cornet.
                      Schagerl Raweni
                      Puje 3am(named for me), Benge pocket
                      Schilke P5-4, C5L
                      Yamaha 761 Eb/D
                      Lots of vintage toys

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • flugelgirl
                        flugelgirl Qualified Repair Techs Veterans & Military Musicians last edited by

                        BTW, Berp doesn’t pay me or give me free stuff - it’s just worked so well for me that I use it for everything that crosses my bench. My work is looking at becoming a dealer soon, so you will see it on our website soon if you shop with us.

                        Daily players: Adams A1, A4LT, F2 flugel , CN1 cornet.
                        Schagerl Raweni
                        Puje 3am(named for me), Benge pocket
                        Schilke P5-4, C5L
                        Yamaha 761 Eb/D
                        Lots of vintage toys

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • adc
                          adc last edited by

                          On flugelgirl's say so I ordered 8 oz of the #1. For comparison the Blue Juice is 1.99 cSt. This #1 is 2.2 cSt. I use BJ bc it seems to keep my horn the cleanest. But I have any number of old horns and some of them don't get played often. If flugelgirl is correct and residue is minimal with this horn..its worth a try. Thank you flugelgirl!!!

                          More Cornets than I can name

                          Kehaulani 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • Kehaulani
                            Kehaulani Credentialed Professional @adc last edited by

                            @adc said in Opinions on Valve Oils?:

                            On flugelgirl's say so I ordered 8 oz of the #1. . I use BJ bc it seems to keep my horn the cleanest. . If flugelgirl is correct and residue is minimal with this horn..its worth a try. Thank you flugelgirl!!!

                            Yeah, I've been a long-time Hetman user but just ordered some BERP oil, too. I'll let you know how it goes.

                            Benge 3X
                            Martin Committee
                            Getzen Capri Cornet
                            Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                            "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                            Charlie Parker

                            "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                            Chet Baker

                            GeorgeB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • grune
                              grune last edited by

                              Thanks for opinions; valuable. This thread caused me to research the petrol/synth distinction, which brought me up to date. So, a correction; per today's standards, Cass is not synth [I suspect its base is condensate]. Overall, I find Cass to be a very good oil; odourless, clear, smooth, stable, long-lasting: but it is not fast per its label and claims. BERP is very intriguing. -regards,

                              Bach Stradivarius Model 37 in silver [180S37], ca 1972.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • GeorgeB
                                GeorgeB @Kehaulani last edited by

                                @Kehaulani

                                I'd use it but it's a pain having to order it from the USA at that stupid exchange rate. So far I haven't been able to find a Berp dealer in Canada. I don't have a beef with Hetman but I do admit to seeing some of that yellow stuff when my older horns sit to long unplayed.

                                1960s King Super 20 Silversonic, 1940 Olds Recording, 1942 Buescher True Tone 400 ,1999 Conn Vintage One Bb trumpet, A 1952 Selmer Paris, A 2020 Getzen 400 and a Manchester Brass ACB custom pro Bb trumpet, a 1962 Conn Victor 5A Cornet.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Kehaulani
                                  Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

                                  @ flugelgirl - I ordered some BERP oil. When it comes, can I use it straight away or should I clean my valves and casings, first. I use Hetman. Thanks.

                                  Benge 3X
                                  Martin Committee
                                  Getzen Capri Cornet
                                  Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                                  "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                                  Charlie Parker

                                  "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                                  Chet Baker

                                  flugelgirl 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • flugelgirl
                                    flugelgirl Qualified Repair Techs Veterans & Military Musicians @Kehaulani last edited by

                                    @Kehaulani Though I have not found it to react adversely, I ALWAYS recommend cleaning out old products before applying a new brand.

                                    Daily players: Adams A1, A4LT, F2 flugel , CN1 cornet.
                                    Schagerl Raweni
                                    Puje 3am(named for me), Benge pocket
                                    Schilke P5-4, C5L
                                    Yamaha 761 Eb/D
                                    Lots of vintage toys

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                    • Kehaulani
                                      Kehaulani Credentialed Professional last edited by

                                      @ flugelgirl, thanks.

                                      Benge 3X
                                      Martin Committee
                                      Getzen Capri Cornet
                                      Adams F-1 Flugelhorn

                                      "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
                                      Charlie Parker

                                      "Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
                                      Chet Baker

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • adc
                                        adc last edited by

                                        Got my BERP. I like it. Valve action is great. I am going to clean and oil my vintage Cornets (12 of them) in the near future!!

                                        More Cornets than I can name

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • adc
                                          adc last edited by

                                          Oiled 6 of12 of my vintage horns. So far so good!!!

                                          More Cornets than I can name

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • Newell Post
                                            Newell Post last edited by

                                            I got a bottle of BERP several years ago for a vintage horn with worn valves. I got the thickest formulation and it is REALLY think. (Thicker than Hetmans's #3 or Monster's thickest, IMO.) It works well, but the action is pretty slow. However, I also hear they reformulated shortly thereafter and the newer BERPs might be faster.

                                            Bb: Bach 180S37G (05), Mercedes (80)
                                            Vintage: Committee (54), Recording (59), Super (49), Getzen Severinsen (66)
                                            C: Kanstul 1510, Constellation
                                            D/Eb: Getzen Eterna
                                            Cornet: Schilke XA1, Yamaha Neo Eb
                                            Flugel: Kanstul 1525, Yamaha 625
                                            Conch shell in F

                                            adc 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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