Crickets?



  • There is a lot going on out there in the industry and the art, but no one seems to want to talk about it here. I am really surprised that no one has been posting about several topics:

    Example #1: BAC integration of Kanstul tooling and design

    • The first phase of shop expansion is now up and running
    • Kanstul sold off a lot of tooling and never kept great production documentation, forcing BAC to fill in a lot of gaps and ultimately apply bits and pieces to their own new work.
    • The train cars arrived from California in August and already new models are hitting the market
    • 3 new models, and prototypes refining a fourth are being shown, and some sold
      o Paseo Z72 – a lightweight 72 inspired BAC rework of the Kanstul 1503
      o Plaza – a “legit”, more mainstream all-around professional trumpet
      o Martin Committee – the fourth generation. A new Committee designed with leading edge tech and extensive dimensional and material research into all prior Committees from my 1937 original to the couple of Kanstul 1603s that were built. Designed to manifest the concept “Martin Committee” with the classic sound, broad projection, and same enabling of the player to perform at peak
      o The Benge project – ongoing project to continue the life’s work of Benge and Autrey to perfect the original French sound. Prototypes are being shown
    • How the wild-man image of Mike Corrigan is going to mesh with the top tier horns BAC is now developing and selling and the serious professionals they are made for.

    Example #2: Tedd Waggoner retired from Bach last July

    • With his withdrawal from public contact, and Roy’s retirement from his volunteer role a few years back, who is left who knows the history, the culture, and the current capabilities to support the customer?
    • He was part of most every significant design decision at Bach since the move to Elkhart – even admitted the confusing Bundy serials on Bach TR-300s was his doing. Who is steering the ship going forward (his email auto-responds with a sales guy as contact)
    • How does one arrange for a custom Bach these days? Tedd always handled those customers, being able to mix the business side with technical understanding of the customer’s desires and ability to help translate that to specifics
    • Paulsen was investing heavily in automation for those elements that consistency is desirable and allowing the labor to be focused where human skill is essential. Who will be managing that transition now? Who has that level of understanding as to which task falls into which category?

    Example #3: Yamaha continues to move production out of Japan

    • Is anyone noticing a change in “quality”?
    • Any distinctive traits noted – new elements, missing details?
    • Has anyone besides me noticed all of the trim parts on non-Japan-built Yamahas that appear on a myriad of cheaper horns?

    Example #4: Voids left by the closure of Kanstul

    • Where do DCI groups go for instruments these days? Who is left that specializes?
    • What will the next generation of US Army Herald Trumpets be?
    • Alternatives for American style low brass (there is the hand built Yamaha York recording bass, but that costs more than my car!)
    • What are boutique makers doing
      o Will Flip resource the Wild Thing and Inspiration?
      o What does everyone think of Flip’s new off-shore line?
      o Will Lee Adams work something out with BAC, or go elsewhere. Is the market still there to justify the investment?
      o Anyone try the new Austin Winds horn?

    Example #5: Shifting (shrinking) opportunities

    • Anyone seeing a decline in church gigs?
    • Seems like back-up horns are a thing of the past in the pop scene right now (yes/no?)
    • Market for wedding & party bands vs DJ now that software lets almost anyone spin with some marginal competence
    • Professional orchestra budget crisis in the wake of the change in tax structure discouraging charitable giving
    • Does anyone soundtrack a TV commercial with studio musicians anymore, or has MIDI monopolized that?

    Example #6: Repertoire availability

    • More and more music is going out of print
    • How many people have tried viewing charts over the web on their phone while performing? (what about those of us who can’t see that small screen?)


  • OldSchool! What an amazing summary and chock full of information and leads. VERY HELPFUL post!



  • Some great topics.

    Example #1: BAC integration of Kanstul tooling and design

    • The first phase of shop expansion is now up and running
    • Kanstul sold off a lot of tooling and never kept great production documentation, forcing BAC to fill in a lot of gaps and ultimately apply bits and pieces to their own new work.
    • The train cars arrived from California in August and already new models are hitting the market
    • 3 new models, and prototypes refining a fourth are being shown, and some sold
      o Paseo Z72 – a lightweight 72 inspired BAC rework of the Kanstul 1503
      o Plaza – a “legit”, more mainstream all-around professional trumpet
      o Martin Committee – the fourth generation. A new Committee designed with leading edge tech and extensive dimensional and material research into all prior Committees from my 1937 original to the couple of Kanstul 1603s that were built. Designed to manifest the concept “Martin Committee” with the classic sound, broad projection, and same enabling of the player to perform at peak
      o The Benge project – ongoing project to continue the life’s work of Benge and Autrey to perfect the original French sound. Prototypes are being shown
    • How the wild-man image of Mike Corrigan is going to mesh with the top tier horns BAC is now developing and selling and the serious professionals they are made for.

    I am eager to see what might eventuate from BAC along the lines of a flugel.

    Example #4: Voids left by the closure of Kanstul

    • Where do DCI groups go for instruments these days? Who is left that specializes?

    BAC is handing System Blue, which is now made offshore. Yamaha of course is probably the biggest footprint. Kanstul's offshore Tama line was a thing, dunno what became of that. And there are a smattering of lines running Andalucia horns which are also offshore production.

    • What are boutique makers doing
      o Will Flip resource the Wild Thing and Inspiration?
      o What does everyone think of Flip’s new off-shore line?

    Waiting for them to hit the streets, following with interest.

    Tony Scodwell is also launching a new flugel, of course as Kanstul has shut. No word yet on who is doing the production. Seems like everything is either offshore or BAC, and I worry if BAC tries to fill every void. Maybe they can.



  • @Pinstriper said in Crickets?:

    BAC is handing System Blue, which is now made offshore. Yamaha of course is probably the biggest footprint. Kanstul's offshore Tama line was a thing, dunno what became of that. And there are a smattering of lines running Andalucia horns which are also offshore production.

    Tony Scodwell is also launching a new flugel, of course as Kanstul has shut. No word yet on who is doing the production. Seems like everything is either offshore or BAC, and I worry if BAC tries to fill every void. Maybe they can.

    I have heard Andalucia lines - the depth of sound knocks you back on your heels. They were a mix of Carol & Kanstul for a time. I assume they have reverted to all Carol then (?)

    BAC has been fairly clear about not trying to be everything Kanstul did - it was a bad strategy for Kanstul, and they can see that careful targeted products are a much more prudent course of action.


  • Qualified Repair Techs

    I’m looking forward to trying the new BAC stuff at NAMM. So far their trumpets have been nice but nothing I was very interested in. We’ll see as time goes on.



  • Is NAMM tomorrow?

    flugelgirl - if you get the time, could you give us a rundown on the differences between the current Adams A-1and the new ones. Thanks

    p.s. - which of the two tuning slides do you use on your Adams A-1? I swear you stated it somewhere, but I've looked everywhere and can't find your post. Thanks.



  • @OldSchoolEuph said in Crickets?:

    @Pinstriper said in Crickets?:

    BAC is handing System Blue, which is now made offshore. Yamaha of course is probably the biggest footprint. Kanstul's offshore Tama line was a thing, dunno what became of that. And there are a smattering of lines running Andalucia horns which are also offshore production.

    Tony Scodwell is also launching a new flugel, of course as Kanstul has shut. No word yet on who is doing the production. Seems like everything is either offshore or BAC, and I worry if BAC tries to fill every void. Maybe they can.

    I have heard Andalucia lines - the depth of sound knocks you back on your heels. They were a mix of Carol & Kanstul for a time. I assume they have reverted to all Carol then (?)

    BAC has been fairly clear about not trying to be everything Kanstul did - it was a bad strategy for Kanstul, and they can see that careful targeted products are a much more prudent course of action.

    Certain AMI instruments were made onshore by Kanstul. He had a bell front (marching) alto horn in F that was made after the Kanstul G Alto bugle, for instance.

    I have one of his Phase III trumpets, the K20 bell. Loud. Big. Full. But you have to put two layers of foam on your mutes, the bell was only a smidge smaller than a Kanstul 1525 flugel.

    I don't know whether they are made by Carol per se, or "one of Carol's suppliers".


  • Qualified Repair Techs

    @Kehaulani most definitely! I’ll be looking to see whether I want to get the gen II or not. I use the conical slides only - I dislike the other one, to the point that I didn’t even take it with me when I bought my first A1! FWIW, Trent didn’t use it, either - when I bought his first A1 (my primary player), it came with two conical slides, one in satin gold lacquer that matched the horn, and one in Sterling. I prefer the sterling one on my other A1.



  • @ flugelgirl. That's funny. I felt an immediate difference when I put the cylindrical slide on. I liked that much better. I played the conical for about two weeks then changed, so I gave it a good shot..

    The cylindrical slide is the one with the single tuning slide ring and the conical with two rings, right?

    And thanks for responding.


  • Qualified Repair Techs

    @Kehaulani good question - I had to look! Conical has two rings on the ferrule.



  • @flugelgirl said in Crickets?:

    @Kehaulani good question - I had to look! Conical has two rings on the ferrule.

    Thanks for that. So, we are reacting in opposites to one another. Interesting.


  • Qualified Repair Techs

    @Kehaulani the cylindrical provides more resistance, and it was a bit too much for me. I like a horn to be a bit more free blowing, but not too much. This conical slide was a great balance for me compared to an elliptical.



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