Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces
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@Dr-Mark said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
Then I was looking at ebay and noticed that I could have gotten some plastic mouthpieces from China for a lot less. Like a boatload of them for lots cheaper. Like 20 of them for less than $12.
I'd be wary of putting things against my lips that come from China. Do they have the same health and safety standards as we do in America?
I don't know if they do when it applies to mouthpieces.What health and safety standards in the US are you talking about? E cigarettes? OxyContin? Zantac? Have you checked out the plastic in the straw that came with your fast food drink? Any plastic in that smart phone you stick up to your ear.... besides the radiation problem? Guess where that smart phone is made?
In the end everything is dangerous. At least there is not likely to be any lead in a plastic mouthpiece.
And flugalgirl, I am glad to support a long established American company. If my grand kids get really interested in playing I'd rather they had the name brand plastic than the non name brand. The Kelly mouthpiece might have some actual technical quality advantage.....might.
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@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
What health and safety standards in the US are you talking about? E cigarettes? OxyContin? Zantac? Have you checked out the plastic in the straw that came with your fast food drink? Any plastic in that smart phone you stick up to your ear.... besides the radiation problem? Guess where that smart phone is made?
All valid points
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@Dr-Mark If you want to see something really upsetting about how safe even our prescribed medicine is in the US take a look at the last John Oliver story on compounding pharmacies.
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Hi Niner,
Yes, I'm familiar with Compounding Pharmacies but what I didn't know is that they are free of FDA scrutiny. That's scary. -
@Dr-Mark said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
Hi Niner,
Yes, I'm familiar with Compounding Pharmacies but what I didn't know is that they are free of FDA scrutiny. That's scary.Too many variables to monitor. Compounding is more an art than a science. Let's give credit to Pharmacy schools that train these individuals. The one regulatory help toward making compounding safer (not by government but by our educational system) is a PharmD degree is now required.
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@Dr-GO said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@Dr-Mark said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
Hi Niner,
Yes, I'm familiar with Compounding Pharmacies but what I didn't know is that they are free of FDA scrutiny. That's scary.Too many variables to monitor. Compounding is more an art than a science. Let's give credit to Pharmacy schools that train these individuals. The one regulatory help toward making compounding safer (not by government but by our educational system) is a PharmD degree is now required.
I take it you didn't watch the link I posted. That system, without any meaningful checks, has made a lot of crooks happy and some patients dead and probably put a dent in a few unsuspecting doctors insurance rates.
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@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@Dr-GO said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@Dr-Mark said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
Hi Niner,
Yes, I'm familiar with Compounding Pharmacies but what I didn't know is that they are free of FDA scrutiny. That's scary.Too many variables to monitor. Compounding is more an art than a science. Let's give credit to Pharmacy schools that train these individuals. The one regulatory help toward making compounding safer (not by government but by our educational system) is a PharmD degree is now required.
I take it you didn't watch the link I posted. That system, without any meaningful checks, has made a lot of crooks happy and some patients dead and probably put a dent in a few unsuspecting doctors insurance rates.
Niner. I did take a close watch. Remember the link is a comedy production. I think health issues need to be discussed and debated by more than just comedians (although I am a BIG fan of John Oliver). Again, the benefit of having the ability to compound pharmaceuticals for individuals that sadly are unable to get regulated medications outweigh the risks. And with that said, even many of the regulated over the counter medications with the best medical evidence, does little to change outcomes of common diseases (such as the "common cold") and contribute more to extreme risk which is why agencies such as the American Academy of Pediatrics puts out information to member physicians (and the public) to help dampen the volume of antihistamines and decongestants that are miss used in treating infants and toddlers.
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@Dr-GO I don't debate the need for compounding pharmacies. Obviously there is a large enough need for something over 2000 in Illinois alone to exist.. with only a handful of inspectors as an alternative of the FDA. What makes you think all the workers in these unsupervised establishments have the degree you mention? How superficial are what must be brief inspections at best? What kind of expertise must the inspectors have?
I know I've gotten this stream off track. It was just a case of one thing leads to another. I don't know jack about medicine in actual point of fact other than some manufacturers really rip you off with the cost.....just because they can.
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@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@Dr-GO ...What makes you think all the workers in these unsupervised establishments have the degree you mention?.
As is the case with medical practitioners, this is a situation where regulation requirements vary state by state. So I cannot comment on ALL workers. I suggest you contact your State Medical Board to get a definitive answer.
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@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@Dr-GO
It was just a case of one thing leads to another. I don't know jack about medicine in actual point of fact other than some manufacturers really rip you off with the cost.....just because they can.So true and more often then we would want to believe. And that is why God created politicians, to help protect us from this mess, right? Yeah right!
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@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
I take it you didn't watch the link I posted.
Yes, I watched the video. It is an eyeopener. A very common mistake is to assume that if the person doing the compounding (or whatever) has letters after their name, they are above reproach. Unfortunately, a human is attached to the letters and humans cut corners, can be neglectful, greedy, or just have a piss poor work ethic. Yes, I do want someone that knows what they are doing but which is better, a person with a Masters in pharmacy who does honest work and possesses a good work ethic or a person with a PharmD who cuts corners or knows how to turn a blind eye? Here's a snippet from PEW Endowments;
Compounded medications pose a higher level of risk to patients than FDA-approved drugs because they have not been tested for safety and efficacy, have not gone through an approval process, and are typically not made under the same quality standards as approved products are. The Pew Charitable Trusts’ drug safety project has identified more than 50 reported compounding errors or potential errors from 2001 to 2017 linked to 1,227 adverse events—undesirable experiences associated with the use of a medical product—including 99 deaths. And because many such events may go unreported, this number is likely to be an underestimation.
Scrutiny of compounding policies following the meningitis outbreak in 2012 brought to light weaknesses in state and federal oversight of these potentially risky drugs, prompting reforms at both levels. -
The problem here is that government as usual does not consider solutions other than "stop it". To be fair, the "no lead" legistlation had plenty of time given to manufacturers who simply dropped the ball by not taking the warning shots seriously. Perhaps early in the process, alternatives could have been considered by politicians - but where was the "good faith" on either of the sides. It is yet more proof: If you do what you are supposed to, when you are supposed to, you won't have to when you have to.
California takes a lot of hits for such legislation, I am not sure that it is justified.
Looking at mouthpieces, we have plastic, ceramics, titanium and surgical stainless readily available, machinable and working. What is the beef?
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If the mouthpiece is properly silver plated (or gold over silver), I doubt there's any lead exposure danger. Playing on a raw brass mouthpiece, or one with a lot of plating loss may be another thing, though.
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Anybody remember the nalgene bottle scare where people were convinced there were toxic chemicals leaching out of the plastic ?
Don't be too sure that plastic is any safer than anything else, simply because it is plastic.
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@Pinstriper said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
Anybody remember the nalgene bottle scare where people were convinced there were toxic chemicals leaching out of the plastic ?
Don't be too sure that plastic is any safer than anything else, simply because it is plastic.
Now days some people, like my wife, can't live without their bottled water. The squishy plastic bottles are more than likely recycled plastic from somewhere.
And one study says most bottled water has plastic in it .
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This is all fine and good, but is the excuse - other things are bad for you too the right argument? Even if a mouthpiece is plated, is what we "think" or "assume" even asked for. We have a lot of Americans believing anything that they want to - from guns to global warming. It is hard to find enough facts outside of the emotion and populist BS being spread thick.
California did not dream lead poisoning up. They announced levels for legislation long before the laws took effect. That is an OK process in my book. It is also what I expect from a reasonable functional government. Don't clobber overnight, give the industries time to adjust. If they sleep on this, goodbye - or move out of state and don't sell in California. Make the Californians travel to Tijuana if they disagree with the policy.
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@ROWUK said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
This is all fine and good, but is the excuse - other things are bad for you too the right argument? Even if a mouthpiece is plated, is what we "think" or "assume" even asked for. We have a lot of Americans believing anything that they want to - from guns to global warming. It is hard to find enough facts outside of the emotion and populist BS being spread thick.
California did not dream lead poisoning up. They announced levels for legislation long before the laws took effect. That is an OK process in my book. It is also what I expect from a reasonable functional government. Don't clobber overnight, give the industries time to adjust. If they sleep on this, goodbye - or move out of state and don't sell in California. Make the Californians travel to Tijuana if they disagree with the policy.
I was merely offering a counterpoint to the view that plastic was presumed to be safe. It depends on the plastic.
Whether a particular political body ignores the science and "finds" something to be so, that may not be, is its own phenomenon. As far as reasonable sounding regulation goes, anyone in the environmental sciences or compliance field knows all too well that in order to be in compliance with one standard, you have to violate another, and so you decide which fine to pay.
Not all plastic is safe. Not all brass is toxic.
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@Pinstriper said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
@ROWUK said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
This is all fine and good, but is the excuse - other things are bad for you too the right argument? Even if a mouthpiece is plated, is what we "think" or "assume" even asked for. We have a lot of Americans believing anything that they want to - from guns to global warming. It is hard to find enough facts outside of the emotion and populist BS being spread thick.
California did not dream lead poisoning up. They announced levels for legislation long before the laws took effect. That is an OK process in my book. It is also what I expect from a reasonable functional government. Don't clobber overnight, give the industries time to adjust. If they sleep on this, goodbye - or move out of state and don't sell in California. Make the Californians travel to Tijuana if they disagree with the policy.
I was merely offering a counterpoint to the view that plastic was presumed to be safe. It depends on the plastic.
Whether a particular political body ignores the science and "finds" something to be so, that may not be, is its own phenomenon. As far as reasonable sounding regulation goes, anyone in the environmental sciences or compliance field knows all too well that in order to be in compliance with one standard, you have to violate another, and so you decide which fine to pay.
Not all plastic is safe. Not all brass is toxic.
If we were to worry about everything that may or may not do us some harm we would never get out of bed in the morning. God knows there are multitudes of studies yet to be done to make us afraid of countless things yet to be discovered. Of course there is danger in never getting out of bed too I suppose.... besides bed sores.
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@Niner said in Lead found in brass horn mouthpieces:
If we were to worry about everything that may or may not do us some harm we would never get out of bed in the morning. Of course there is danger in never getting out of bed too I suppose.... besides bed sores.
Ah, Niner, do you know what unnatural synthetics your bed mattress is stuffed with?... AND if stuffed with animal feathers, do you really know what that animal died from?
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@Dr-GO I spent ten years of my life as a factory rep for a mattress company. You don't know the half of it. When hybrid water beds came out nobody did any testing to see if anybody could drown in one. Thankfully they went out of style before a study could be done.
