King Liberty
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Since this new forum isn't exactly taking off, I'll give it one more example in hopes there are at least a few who may be looking at the post who have some fascination with old instruments and will contribute.
The King Liberty. It was a professional grade trumpet made by H. N. White from the 20's down to the 60's. There was a King Liberty and and King Liberty No. 2 that came along in the mid 1930's and not to be confused with the 2B which was also called a Liberty. Professional grade horns then....and since trumpet technology is, arguably, only marginally better now days.. probably still are. Each valve was serial numbered. The one pictured has a plastic "King" hand guard ....but only because it is branded.
My example was made about 1939. It had a distinctive backward C brace in the tuning slide. The No. 2 had a more elaborate design for a brace and makes the horns distinguishable by only a casual look. The King Liberty was a hit in it's day. Several famous musicians in their time played it at least in some of their performances. Red Allen, Buck Clayton, Harry James, Wingy Manone.....even Arturo Sandoval early on used a King Liberty at one time or the other.
I took the advertising pages from H.N. White.com, as is apparent. http://www.hnwhite.com/Trumpet Page.htm#Liberty
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This post is, for me, exactly why this "new forum isn't exactly taking off" - jokes and gear . . and pretty pictures.
If people want a lounge type format, that's fine. I'm just making a contrast. Where's the music? I want to learn and discuss things about music, not peripheral stuff.
I recently got frustrated and decided to just go back to Sax on the Web. It has it's fair share of equipment stuff, too, but it's also balanced with more meaty musical topics, and it applies to music, in general, not just sax players.
Again, I'm just expressing what is important to me, people can have what they want. This is not what I want, primarily. . The old forum at least had a scattering of trumpet techniques and musical elements, responded to by people who knew what they were talking about. I tried a couple of times and the responses were sparse.
This is a safer place to go than TH and played an important role. Additionally, the format is newer and appears more professional. I don't know all the behind-the-scenes factors but, about updating format, the TH owner doesn't appear to care.
Please don't misunderstand. I don't mean to diss. the posters or take anything away from them. Just expressing what I personally am looking for.
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani Well.... when I first suggested the idea rather than respond to the suggestion you participated in a protracted conversation about a movie called The Adventure's of Buckaroo Banzai rather than speak to the question. Hardly a "meaty musical topic" response I'd say. I appreciate the owner of this site at least giving it a shot. I won't be making any more posts in this forum until it shows some interest beyond myself.
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@Niner said in King Liberty:
@Kehaulani Well.... when I first suggested the idea rather than respond to the suggestion you participated in a protracted conversation about a movie called The Adventure's of Buckaroo Banzai rather than speak to the question.
I don't think there's anything wrong with side trips, to add personality to the site, as long as the original question gets answered. instead of just being sent off-track with irrelevant things. Help me out. What thread are you referring to? I don't find it.
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You consider one, off-hand remark, hijacking a thread? O.K.
BTW, don't misunderstand, please. I hope this forum does take off and offers a warmer environment than TH. To that end, I'm just responding to the question, as part of my input, as to why it hasn't taken off more than it has.
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@Kehaulani said in King Liberty:
This post is, for me, exactly why this "new forum isn't exactly taking off" - jokes and gear . . and pretty pictures.
If people want a lounge type format, that's fine. I'm just making a contrast. Where's the music? I want to learn and discuss things about music, not peripheral stuff.
I recently got frustrated and decided to just go back to Sax on the Web. It has it's fair share of equipment stuff, too, but it's also balanced with more meaty musical topics, and it applies to music, in general, not just sax players.
Well, this post is in the "Instruments Discussion/Historical & Collector's Items" forum, so it seems totally appropriate. Certainly not "Lounge" material. I would expect to find the music in the "Music Discussion" forum.
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Diverting. I'm addressing the "why" question, which was posted by the post's originator.
Benge 3X
Martin Committee
Getzen Capri Cornet
Adams F-1 Flugelhorn"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn."
Charlie Parker"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker -
@Kehaulani said in King Liberty:
Diverting. I'm addressing the "why" question, which was posted by the post's originator.
Sorry, I don't see a "why" in the OP. And I thought he was referring to the "Instruments Discussion/Historical and Collector's Items" forum, not TrumpetBoards in general.
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@Kehaulani Which why are you talking about? Your opinion that "why" this site isn't taking off is because of me posting about old instruments and wanting to discuss them or the "why" you didn't address the original proposal of the forum instead of waiting to now to express your disapproval?
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I give up. You folks can interpret it any way you want . . or don't. I'm not going to live on this one thread. I was just giving input as to why, from my point of view, the site hasn't taken off. Just trying to be helpful.
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I'm trying. Still hard to find us on Google. I mean, the site is breaking even now, so I'm not planning on killing it any time soon.
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@Niner Nice post. I have amongst other things, a 2B from 1936, in almost pristine condition. Information on and "pretty pictures" of vintage horns is from my perspective most important. From a purely historical perspective, once this info is lost, it is just that, lost, and future trumpet players will not benefit from knowing about a once great American brass instrument manufacturing tradition.
Posts like this can and must, exist along side more esoteric musings. The trumpet community is a "broad church", and forums such as this and TH, should be well able to embrace every bodies particular interests and opinions. Just my 2 bobs worth.
Regards, Tom -
If you re-read my posts, I say that there's room for all of it. It's a matter of proportion, that's all.
And, frankly, there are times that I want to know something about a given horn, and it is sources like this that I go to for the information. The information is valuable.
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@Kehaulani Spot on.
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I was cleaning up a few horns today. Thought I'd take a few photos of the Liberty and the Super 20 and compare them.
The Liberty started in the 20's the Super 20 didn't come around until the 40's...I think. The Liberty, mine is early, has a 4.5 inch bell and the Super has a bell quarter inch wider. At the same time the Super has a shorter valve body by about a half inch. The Super 20 first valve slide is attached front and side while the Liberty is a side attachment. The Super 20 has a larger micro tuning slide adjustment than the liberty. The Super also has a thumb adjustment on the first slide that the Liberty doesn't. The Super 20 has a little fancier furniture and both are "professional" trumpets for their day.
Super 20 top.
